Question of DPS by ilvl (11 replies to this topic)

I have been having a look around but I can see anything like this request.  It all stems from a conversation with my GM about the Guild's dps, he believes that we are 40-50% behind where we should be.

So My question if you are a lock with an iLvl of 474 in a normal 10 man raid how what DPS should you be aiming for.  Yes, it will bepend on the fight, spec and buff's etc but im looking at a ball park figure here.

So lets use the stone guard as an example

10-man normal Destro lock iLvl 474 - Dps for the fight should be ?
(we will ammune for arguement sake that we have a blood lust, flasked and medium food buff)  is 50-55k a resonable figure?

Hello, thinking about ilvl as an indirect result of your DPS is a horrible mistake, the stats are all that matters.
So by linking your armory it would greatly help us simulate your character or even provide you some raw feedback

Edited by Zauxst, 16 November 2012 - 03:31 PM.

http://eu.battle.net...r/Doncre/simple

here is a link to my profile.  I am hit capped and with most stats pushed towards mastery.

Have been wondering about switching grims from Supremacy to Sacrifice on the next raid.

Your first mistake is playing Destruction.  If you are having fun, great.  If you want results, go Affliction.  Destruction cannot be played well at any item level at this point.  A perfect Destruction Warlock cannot come close to an above average Affliction Warlock.  Even Demonology can't come close to Affliction's performance at this point.  If you want to be competitive, go Affliction and master that rotation.  Your DPS should go up at least 10k.  For a 474 ilvl, you should be able to push 55-60k in a 2 target fight such as Stone Guard.  Single target, you should be able to push 50-55k.  Be sure to read through my 5.0.5 Affliction guide so you can step right out and begin punishing your opponents.

i have tried follow you aff guide before (badly the DPS attacully when down, which has more to say about the player than the spec)

A couple of questions on the aff spec, is the Grimoire of Supremacy still the best one to use?  and what do you do in bust scenario's? (link the sparks on elegon and in the spirit releam of gara'jul)

Supremacy has never been the best to use for Affliction.  It has and always will be Sacrifice.  In burst scenarios, you want to apply your DoTs with Soulburn: Soul Swap followed by Haunt and then Malefic Grasp channeling.  In the spirit realm of Gara'jal, you'd want to use your shards to apply all 3 DoTs to as many of the adds as possible before using MG on one.  When one got low, you'd finish it with Drain Soul replenishing your Soul Shard supply allowing you to multi-dot more even faster.

Zagam, on 16 November 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

I'd like to contradict you on this one. Demonology is pretty viable in raiding scene right now, especially since it's better burst then affliction with Grimoir of Service.

I'd done some testing and I had fights (Garajal hc where bursting was very good), the burst was going to 160-170 when all favorable conditions where met.

Grimoire of Sacrifice for destro is better by far, with the current bosses, as for affliction

While Grimoire of Service is good for Demonology if you manage to use it everytime on cooldown ( and chain it with something extra, like dark soul + imps)

Anyway, try to put a world of logs so we can find more details.

I ran LFR last night as Affliction and did 81k to Gara'jal since he's the closest I can come to a DPS target dummy in a raid situation.  I did this with no flask and no food.  I repeated it and did Demonology and did 68k.  Same item level, properly reforged for each.  I played Demonology all throughout T10, 11, 12, and 13, so I'm not some noob who never played Demo.  It's just not in as good a place as Affliction at all and every single log you can pull up with testify to that.  The only time Demonology trumps Affliction is challenge modes because of the insanely high sustainable AoE.  In a raiding situation, it's Affliction or enjoy hindering your raid.  Granted, Demonology is a BLAST to play.  Unfortunately, it's not tuned well enough in PvE.

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Stone Guard 10 man Normal
Demo = 85168
Aff = 94785

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Feng 10 man Normal
Demo = 72133
Aff = 84530

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Gara'jal 10 man Normal
Demo = 77392
Aff = 91806

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Spirit Kings 10 man Normal
Demo = 74048
Aff = 82350

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Elegon 10 man Normal
Demo = 124351
Aff = 162673

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Will of the Emperor 10 man Normal
Demo = 65799
Aff = 100195

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 10 man Normal
Demo = 69571
Aff = 80463

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Blade Lord Ta'yak 10 man Normal
Demo = 60018
Aff = 71028

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Garalon 10 man Normal
Demo = 85892
Aff = 103880

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Wind Lord Mel'jarak 10 man Normal
Demo = 163539
Aff = 155368

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Amber Shaper Un'sok 10 man Normal
Demo = 120911
Aff = 135755

http://raidbots.com/.../14/60/default/ Grand Empress Shek'zeer 10 man Normal
Demo = 67819
Aff = 86702

There is all the proof you need.  These are the top 100 parses for 10 man normal, so it excludes really high level players doing Heroics.  You're looking at HUGE differences between Demo and Affliction except for one fight where you're fighting a ton of adds next to the boss able to be cleaved.  You can't justify Demonology being competitive with this proof.

I can see your point, just been trying aff but the dps is comming out at 42k on a 25 LFR group

I'm like the flip side of many folks who come here to learn about affliction.  After levelling to 85 and dabbling in all the specs, I ended up just pvping on my affliction lock in random battlegrounds at the end of Cata.  I levelled to 90 as affliction and  haven't played anything else so I can't personally comment on Destro or Demo.

I just want to say that on various forums I have seen experienced affliction locks comment that they have  had to relearn the class: It was changed radically for MoP.  Just for starters while keeping haunt up as much as possible is still a good thing, it is no longer the main thing.  The main thing is to keep all your dots up and maintaining them at the highest possible damage.  This takes a good understanding of the spell prioiriteis and in my case a lot of practice, particularly regarding soul shard usage and generation.  Some fights offer a bunch of opportunities to generate shards while others keep me farily shard starved.

Gear makes a big difference too, but won't do much for you until you learn or realearn "the new affliction."    This is the place to do it, Zavram/ Icey Veins have put all the resources in place for people to be highly successful at the class so long as they are willing to dig into the information, use it and practice.   On a good day I  (a barely average player, an aging soccer mom and still a darn noob when it comes to warlock) have done the kind of DPS Zavram is talking about, so you younguns  who were born with a controller in your hands should  be blowing the doors off the class in no time if you put a bit of time and effort into it.

Zagam, on 16 November 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

I do over 80k unbuffed unflasked on lfr garajal as demo.  I've been told that's unusual by other warlocks and that I just play demo really well, idk, but I've only been beaten in lfr in dps once, by an aff lock   on will of the emperor.

I do slightly less in most fights as aff than I do as demo, but I'm not playing it well yet.  I've switched to aff this week to learn it and hopefully help my raid team more.  Thanks for the guides, they are great and I really appreciate them!