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Underperforming @ elegon10m normal

18 replies to this topic Started by Lilith, Nov 17 2012 07:17 AM
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:17 AM

#1
Lilith
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Ok first it was my first try at elegon, anyway I am severely underperforming(only dps under 100k, minus the paladin who is ms holy(better geared then his ret).

here is my armoy(im affliction in raiding destro outside of raids)
http://us.battle.net...2/Lìlîth/simple


our wol kill:
http://www.worldoflo.../?s=5517&e=6070


please help lol, uhm i also have like 10 fps there soo ya. I can start pretty well, but my finishing was just aweful for a affliction warlock...


p.s. i just started playing affliction in august of this year, been destro prior to it

also im doing better or almost evenly on will compared to this fight, maybe its just my bad fps?

Edited by Lilith, 17 November 2012 - 07:28 AM.

Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

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JvChequer
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Try this tactic on your core next week:



I with 482 could do around 135k dps. :)

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:36 PM

#3
Zagam
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That guide is nice for 25 mans, but in 10 man, you really have to use your Warlock to dedicate them to one orb. You can't spam Seed of Corruption during the orb phase, so it severely limits your ability to do massive numbers here. Lilith, I see a 55% uptime with Unstable Affliction, 65% for Corruption, and 81% for Agony. I also notice from the vast number of misses you have that you are not hit capping. While that is your choice, I wonder if perhaps you didn't notice when UA or Corruption missed to lead to such low uptime on your DoTs. Remember, not having all 3 DoTs up while using Malefic Grasp is a huge DPS loss. You also only used Haunt 15 times in 9 minutes and 16 seconds of combat. You had 28 Shadow Trances so you should have casted Haunt at least 30 times and this is without the Soul Shard regeneration component of Drain Soul. You used Dark Soul 4 times for a total uptime of 78.5 seconds. I'm guessing you used it before combat even started, so you lost 1.5 seconds of your total time. This is a DPS loss. Your opening rotation should be Curse of Elements, THEN Dark Soul, not reversed. Dark Soul has a 2 minute CD and should be used on the pull. Therefore, with a 9 minute fight, you should have used Dark Soul 5 times, not 4. Seeing your total damage done to the Celestial Sparks, you did a measly 1,050,500. This is rather poor with all the utility you have to DPS the adds. Use Seed of Corruption on as many as you can while they are coming to the middle. They will not detonate due to the new mechanic with SoC. When the middle platform reappears, do your single target rotation to one of them to induce the explosions of all the seeds you set up. This will tremendously shorten that phase. As for survival CDs, Shadow Bulwark has a 2 minute CD and you used it one time. You used Dark Regeneration once and it has a 2 minute cooldown. Use this more liberally when needed. Perhaps your healers are that awesome...I don't know. Lots of opportunities for growth on this fight. Keep at it.

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:13 PM

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JvChequer
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That guide is nice for 25 mans, but in 10 man, you really have to use your Warlock to dedicate them to one orb. You can't spam Seed of Corruption during the orb phase, so it severely limits your ability to do massive numbers here.


In my core 10man we actually did this tactic and it worked pretty well, one of the tankers go for 1 orb and when one dps burn down one he helps the tank if was necessary, in 6 waves I did about 5,2kk dmg in orbs.

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:22 PM

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In my core 10man we actually did this tactic and it worked pretty well, one of the tankers go for 1 orb and when one dps burn down one he helps the tank if was necessary, in 6 waves I did about 5,2kk dmg in orbs.


I was in charge of one focus by myself but still did 9.2M damage to the charges.

http://www.worldoflo...7548&target=112 for proof.

All I did was time a Soulburn: Seed of Corruption for when the charges spawned. I then SB:SS my charge and MG'd it til it died (Drain Soul does not restore shards here). On the 4th wave (we do 4 waves each time) I do the same thing but add Haunt. If you have enough ranged, you could likely ignore your orb as a Warlock, but there's no reason to bother with that and stress a low DPS or a tank on the 4th wave. You can STILL do outrageous DPS to the orbs by counting the SoC explosion and the Corruption tick. This also generates Soul Shards for you.

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:53 PM

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Dhampir05
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At the time of first kill, my warlock was sitting at about 475ilv. The uptime on Agony, UA, Corruption was 90, 83, 87% respectively. Remember your prepot. and remember that when the add is drug to the outside and is about to explode, continue using drain soul on it until it explodes so that you get a full stock of shards. Also if you see that you have an extra shard before the add dies, then soul swap to the boss and then grab the shards off of the drain soul. That way you'll only have to worry about casting haunt when you get back on the boss. I'm currently able to solo 6 orbs by myself and only using haunt on the last 2 (gets to 7 stacks once 6 orbs are down) You may want to start using haunt on the 4th one but not before that because you won't be able to keep up on shards. Keep your portal set up on the side so that you can stay in the middle and multi dot pillars for as long as possible and then either step off or port off when the floor goes to drop. I usually use a demonic gate setup so that one side can port over to meet the other group in front of the console for quicker grouping for aoe. The fight is all about dot uptime and managing soul shards effectively. Try to keep a full stack of dots on the boss during orb phase as well. Felflame works great here to spam as you reset stacks or whenever you have spare time. I'm probably the only dps in my raid under 480 but still managed to be top damage for the fight. Affliction locks are pretty OP for this fight. Just remember DOT Uptime! Edit: I'm also only at 6% hit (115k for first kill) I did not know about the soulburn seed on the boss so I'll have to try that one next time. http://us.battle.net...eathñote/simple

Edited by Dhampir05, 19 November 2012 - 07:04 PM.

Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:20 AM

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Lilith
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Thanks for all the tips :), yea I was under hit cap because I forgot to reforge a few pieces but im back at 15.00%(15.02% if you want accurate). Anyway, uh where do you recommend i stand at so i can hit the pillars because they have me kill the orb that is on a side of the console and dot up the other one next to me if its not dead by the time mine is....

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

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Thanks for all the tips Posted Image, yea I was under hit cap because I forgot to reforge a few pieces but im back at 15.00%(15.02% if you want accurate).

Anyway, uh where do you recommend i stand at so i can hit the pillars because they have me kill the orb that is on a side of the console and dot up the other one next to me if its not dead by the time mine is....


You shouldn't be assigned to help someone else. You don't have the toolkit. Simply DoTing up another target is a waste of time, a Soul Shard, and isn't particularly effective. Ask your raid leader to refine your strategy. Your best use during this phase is to put a Soulburn:Seed of Corruption on Elegon just before he summons his charges so that when they spawn, the seed explodes putting Corruption on each add. After that, you apply DoTs to yours and burn it with Malefic Grasp. Position yourself just on the outside of the bubble so you can reset your stacks of Overload after each charge dies. Corruption should give all the rest of your raiders that extra pinch of help to get your waves down.

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:28 AM

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So I tried to spread corruption up via SB:SoC in LFR Elegon, but my timing is so bad that either A. I'm to early, or B. I miss completely and corruption fails to reach the charges(I have mannoroth's fury) any help on when it is optimal to cast it but on the upside i ended with 100k+ dps :) on the downside it's lfr...

Edited by Lilith, 21 November 2012 - 07:29 AM.

Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:47 AM

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JvChequer
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Thats awkward 'cause with the MF u can damage the charges in almost every location of their path

What I'm doing is: SB;SS > wait until is near 1.8sec till charges show up > SB:SoC->SoC->Redot or not->SB:SOC->SoC

Edited by JvChequer, 21 November 2012 - 07:49 AM.

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

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Zagam
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Thats awkward 'cause with the MF u can damage the charges in almost every location of their path

What I'm doing is: SB;SS > wait until is near 1.8sec till charges show up > SB:SoC->SoC->Redot or not->SB:SOC->SoC


You cannot kill an orb you are assigned to alone with this method. Most 10 man groups who are doing this on normal have each of their DPS assigned to a charge spawn with the tanks being sent to help the weakest members. You should not be spamming SoC as it does not provide an actual benefit to the raid group or your attempt. This method only pads meters, just like the 200k DPS video simulates. You're not doing effective DPS, you're just taking advantage of class mechanics to do more damage than anyone else. If your other teammates can successfully kill a charge without your help, your SoC explosions aren't making a lick of difference. They need to kill the charge as it moves out anyways to give them the opportunity to reset stacks. This method is similar to what you could do on Heroic Madness with Kalecgos' buff and Spellweave spamming. Sometimes it's best to turn Recount and Skada off and figure out what's the best way you can help your team out, not what is the best way to make your DPS go higher.

It seems to be a trend here that people want to do more DPS than what they are doing even though their groups are getting kills 45 seconds before the enrage. I haven't seen too many people asking for help on Heroic Elegon here, so just focus on your job, turn off Recount/Skada, and make sure all the things you are assigned to are done and done well. The rest will fall in place.

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

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JvChequer
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You cannot kill an orb you are assigned to alone with this method. Most 10 man groups who are doing this on normal have each of their DPS assigned to a charge spawn with the tanks being sent to help the weakest members. You should not be spamming SoC as it does not provide an actual benefit to the raid group or your attempt. This method only pads meters, just like the 200k DPS video simulates. You're not doing effective DPS, you're just taking advantage of class mechanics to do more damage than anyone else. If your other teammates can successfully kill a charge without your help, your SoC explosions aren't making a lick of difference. They need to kill the charge as it moves out anyways to give them the opportunity to reset stacks.


That's what is working for my group bro, dont be so judgy about me just because i wanna try a 25man mechanic in a 10man fight.
Relax.
After we change to this 'pad meter method" we could kill elegon after 2 weeks of trying, maybe it's not that wrong after all.

Edited by JvChequer, 21 November 2012 - 08:29 PM.

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:54 AM

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Figure I'll weigh in on the Orb phase mechanics from a personal perspective. During the first week of content, we arrived via experimentation at the following conclusion regarding the phase as it fits into the fight overall: The less time you can spend on orbs overall on that phase, the more time you can spend on the boss, which (when progressing) is incredibly important. Additionally, there is a 'breakpoint' for each raid group dependent on DPS comp etc, where killing another Orb wave becomes a DPS loss when applied to the fight overall, when compared to simply ignoring said wave and keeping all DPS on Elegon. This is really only applicable to the 2nd phase 2. Based on the above, any AoE DPS that can be done to the orbs when they first appear (normally, since most DPS classes cant reach them all once they've started moving away), is a huge boon to the raid. It increases the raid's uptime on Elegon during this phase, since each player (tank or DPS) is able to spend less time running/focusing an orb. I'm sure Zagam is correct to say that a warlock assigned directly to one orb of the 6 cannot simply spam seed and hope to kill his own target via that damage. He is also correct to criticize a warlock that is specifically assigned to an orb, then simply spams seed and expects his DPS partners to cover his slack without prior communication to that effect. However, going by what Jvchequer is saying (correct me if I'm misinterpreting here), he is using a pre-arranged strat in which his class is directly assigned to maximizing AoE DPS to all orbs on that phase, for nett benefit to the raid. This is also fine, so long as it's communicated to everyone before hand and is being deliberately incorporated into the raid's strat to help down the boss faster. No doubt it's a nice boost to the lock's DPS and he gets to give all the other DPS a cheeky grin, but the reality of this encounter, imo, is that having the luxury of a warlock to do exactly this is quite a boon. We are using a similar strategy on our 10man, in which the AoE viable classes are assigned to 'float' and deal maximum AoE damage at the onset of each wave, while we have 2 dps and 1 tank assigned directly to an orb on each side (tanks inthe middle for ease of coverage). Those floater DPS then backup anyone whose orbs are still high once the orbs have moved beyond the effective range of their AoE. Obviously, like any strat, it's just a trade-off which may or may not work depending on your raids strengths. That's half the fun of raiding, finding out how to best use your comp to tackle raid mechanics :D

Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:40 AM

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JvChequer
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@UP

I could not explain it better. Thanks for the understanding beside my poor english.
I really not disagree with Zagam, as you said, It's just an another way to do the fight when your group has a lack of dps in both sides.

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

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Right. Every composition of raid teams is unique. It appears that JvC's group is well-off enough with their DPS that he can just perform AoE type abilities instead of single target focusing like most groups have to do. My group is probably able to do this as well, but after learning a fight and being able to one-shot it, I don't find it meaningful to switch it up. The reason that I keep myself on an orb is because I can reliably kill one every time, and when we first started doing this fight, my Fire Mage would have issues if he didn't crit. Sometimes my Hunter's pet wouldn't get off the boss fast enough even with pet attack macros. It just made life simple. My suggestions were for a group who is suffering from wipes due to a lack of DPS or a group who is still learning the fight. JvC's suggestions are for a group who has it on farm and just wants to down it faster. Either way, it's great to have multiple views of the same fight so that people who are having issues can approach it in more than one way to fix their issues. This is the type of atmosphere we should have here. While it may have looked like JvC and I disagreed, we just were looking at a different solution to the same problem.

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

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JvChequer
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Indeed ^.^

Let's spread the love <3

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:46 AM

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Totally off topic (sorry admins!) but.... Has it occured to anyone else that JvChequer seems to have changed his Avatar/sig from what appeared to be a young man wearing a blindfold, to an armored warrior with his helmet on backwards? XD

Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:06 AM

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Totally off topic (sorry admins!) but.... Has it occured to anyone else that JvChequer seems to have changed his Avatar/sig from what appeared to be a young man wearing a blindfold, to an armored warrior with his helmet on backwards? XD


I sense a pattern.

Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:16 AM

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JvChequer
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Totally off topic (sorry admins!) but.... Has it occured to anyone else that JvChequer seems to have changed his Avatar/sig from what appeared to be a young man wearing a blindfold, to an armored warrior with his helmet on backwards? XD


You will never know the truth. I'm behind 7 proxies.

Edited by JvChequer, 23 November 2012 - 02:19 AM.

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