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2-H Frost, or Unholy?

8 replies to this topic Started by Kushingten, Nov 17 2012 11:33 AM
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:33 AM

#1
Kushingten
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Hey there guys, I have been raiding as 2-H frost for a little while now, and leveled 85-90 as frost. I have played Unholy in PvP and as a raiding spec in the past, and was wondering if I should try the change in my current gear or keep on with frost?

Armory: http://us.battle.net...shingten/simple

Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

#2
Vlad
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Hey. 2H Frost will out-perform Unholy in most raid encounters, if not all. Unholy can be good if the execute phase (sub 35%) is really important, or if you get a crazy damage boost then (see Elegon), since Soul Reaper hits like a truck for Unholy due to it scaling with Unholy's Mastery. Unholy is also a more fluid and less proc-reliant playstyle. If you want to really compete and maximise everything, though, you should be playing 2H Frost.

Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:45 PM

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Kushingten
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Hey.

2H Frost will out-perform Unholy in most raid encounters, if not all. Unholy can be good if the execute phase (sub 35%) is really important, or if you get a crazy damage boost then (see Elegon), since Soul Reaper hits like a truck for Unholy due to it scaling with Unholy's Mastery.

Unholy is also a more fluid and less proc-reliant playstyle. If you want to really compete and maximise everything, though, you should be playing 2H Frost.


I see, about what is the difference in DPS?

Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:22 AM

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Vlad
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I see, about what is the difference in DPS?


It's very hard to say, it depends on a LOT of factors (fight type, length, player skill etc.), but I can tell you that it's big enough to actually matter (it's not a purely theoretical difference that you won't notice in an actual fight), but not so big that Unholy is unplayable.

Simulation Craft shows a 3-4% difference between the two specs (with 2H Frost ahead, of course).

Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:01 AM

#5
Kushingten
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It's very hard to say, it depends on a LOT of factors (fight type, length, player skill etc.), but I can tell you that it's big enough to actually matter (it's not a purely theoretical difference that you won't notice in an actual fight), but not so big that Unholy is unplayable.

Simulation Craft shows a 3-4% difference between the two specs (with 2H Frost ahead, of course).


Thank you very much, Any recommendations you have for me currently?

Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

#6
Vlad
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Thank you very much, Any recommendations you have for me currently?


Play 2H Frost and learn to love it, with its Runic Empowerment and all :)

Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

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Amicitia
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Frost DW with Blood Tap is doing as much, if not more dps than 2H, and the rotation is way more consistent with less waiting on procs. Recent Simcraft runs have DW + BT as top DK dps followed by 2H and then Unholy. I played 2H until DW+BT was suggested on EJ's forums (Frost DPS 5.0.4 - The Cold Hand of Death, go to page 4 and look for a post from Haakon on 10/16, he refers to Magdalena on Acherus, the string of posts starts there and progresses over the next several pages) and the difference in the rotation is huge and imho much less frustrating due to long waits (> 2 secs) for procs. The drawback is that it's bad enough waiting to get a single 2H weapon drop nevermind waiting on getting 2 good DW weapons. Another bonus was that my aoe rotation differs very little from my single target rotation due to the heavy use of Howling Blast. DW+BT does not play exactly like Masterfrost and is really easy to reforge for since Mastery and Haste are essentially equally rated after Strength/Hit/Expertise or course. By stacking my Blood charges and using PL/Outbreak I have no periods of waiting (read as "never") on runes, runic power or procs even in longer fights like in Terrace.

Edited by Liplock, 28 November 2012 - 09:33 PM.

Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:22 PM

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SkuulzonVelen
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The drawback is that it's bad enough waiting to get a single 2H weapon drop nevermind waiting on getting 2 good DW weapons.


VERY TRUE! I cannot tell you how long I've been waiting for a 2H drop or another 1H to go with Heroic Ook Ook Sword.... Very frustrating. I've run almost every Heroic 2x and 1 weapon drop I could use...

Edited by SkuulzonVelen, 28 November 2012 - 07:22 PM.

Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:11 PM

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Vlad
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Frost DW with Blood Tap is doing as much, if not more dps than 2H, and the rotation is way more consistent with less waiting on procs. Recent Simcraft runs have DW + BT as top DK dps followed by 2H and then Unholy. I played 2H until DW+BT was suggested on EJ's forums (Frost DPS 5.0.4 - The Cold Hand of Death, go to page 4 and look for a post from Haakon on 10/16, he refers to Magdalena on Acherus, the string of posts starts there and progresses over the next several pages) and the difference in the rotation is huge and imho much less frustrating due to long waits (> 2 secs) for procs. The drawback is that it's bad enough waiting to get a single 2H weapon drop nevermind waiting on getting 2 good DW weapons. Another bonus was that my aoe rotation differs very little from my single target rotation due to the heavy use of Howling Blast. DW+BT does not play exactly like Masterfrost and is really easy to reforge for since Mastery and Haste are essentially equally rated after Strength/Hit/Expertise or course. By stacking my Blood charges and using Lich/Epi I have no periods of waiting (read as "never") on runes, runic power or procs even in longer fights like in Terrace.


This seems very interesting. I've been checking out Frost DKs in top guilds, though, and this seems to have not really caught on yet - http://us.battle.net...ruciel/advanced and http://eu.battle.net...r/Tegu/advanced are the only two I've found out of the ~30 or so that I looked at. Why do you think this is? Just the extra loot requirement?

Anyway, keeping an eye on it and I'll be sure to add it to the guide if it turns out to truly be viable.

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