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Kuroko

Frost worse than Unholy?

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Hello everyone, I decided to create a DK as my dps main character and so I decided to look at the guides here in IcyVeins however for my surprise in both guides (Frost and Unholy DK) it says that Frost spec performs worse than Unholy so I wanted to ask if this is a fact or it's all up to my skill with the character because since I started playing WoW I have noticed that most of the performance of a character is all up to the skill of the one using it and not a matter of an "OP class".

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Hello everyone, I decided to create a DK as my dps main character and so I decided to look at the guides here in IcyVeins however for my surprise in both guides (Frost and Unholy DK) it says that Frost spec performs worse than Unholy so I wanted to ask if this is a fact or it's all up to my skill with the character because since I started playing WoW I have noticed that most of the performance of a character is all up to the skill of the one using it and not a matter of an "OP class".

 

This believe it or not is a more complicated question then you think. A Lot comes down to gear, rotation, talent choice, and personal skill. That being said assuming all are equal in simulations unholy is currently ahead of frost. 

 

now that being said, Sims are good for determining stat weights and seeking micro alterations in talent choices to improve dps. All classes are viable with only a couple thousand k dps keeping them apart. Play what you like and you'll do fine. 

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Assuming equal skill at both specs (and same gear of course), Unholy is currently better than Frost. On single target fights, the difference is not too big of an issue (unless you're in one of those ultra hardcore raiding guilds) and you can play whatever you want. On AoE fights however, Unholy is outright better. 

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I don't know where the above person gets his information from but I would kindly ask you to start posting numbers or proof instead of just saying X is better than Y without any information backing up your claim.

 

Currently for 6.0.3 on Single Target Frost 2H is still slightly ahead as you can see here:

ECGl3zS.png

 

In 6.1 this will change to:

BV1OjuZ.png

 

source: http://sonofalich.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=57#6.0.3simulations

Edited by VRDRF

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What everybody else said: it boils down to player skills, both are viable options for raids.

 

Frost is little easier to start with, rotation is quite intuitive. Unholy rotation is more complex and requires some planning ahead. If you are looking for OK number with not much work involved, pick Frost. If you want a challenge that rewards great numbers, pick Unholy.

 

These sims you see are on paper. That said, poorly executed Unholy will still have worse results than poorly executed Frost.

Edited by simpetar

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I don't know where the above person gets his information from but I would kindly ask you to start posting numbers or proof instead of just saying X is better than Y without any information backing up your claim.

 

Currently for 6.0.3 on Single Target Frost 2H is still slightly ahead as you can see here:

ECGl3zS.png

 

In 6.1 this will change to:

BV1OjuZ.png

 

source: http://sonofalich.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=57#6.0.3simulations

If you have Necroblight sims for UH, please could you post them as well? That is what all dps theorycrafting discussions across all DK forums have been about lately smile.png

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If you have Necroblight sims for UH, please could you post them as well? That is what all dps theorycrafting discussions across all DK forums have been about lately smile.png

Not yet unfortunatly but on ST its below PL/Def

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Hello everyone, I decided to create a DK as my dps main character and so I decided to look at the guides here in IcyVeins however for my surprise in both guides (Frost and Unholy DK) it says that Frost spec performs worse than Unholy so I wanted to ask if this is a fact or it's all up to my skill with the character because since I started playing WoW I have noticed that most of the performance of a character is all up to the skill of the one using it and not a matter of an "OP class".

 

2H Frost is simply worse in every single aspect, compared to Unholy. I really don't like to say this, but it's a fact. DW Frost is pretty much in the middle, in regards to AoE, but at the very bottom in ST (single target).

To make it short, let's take a look at the only real ST fight BrF offers, Gruul:

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7/#difficulty=4&boss=1691

 

3k difference, as you can see, which is quite huge.

 

Now let's take a look at AoE:

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7/#difficulty=4&boss=1694

 

The gap here is simply too high (6k), whether or not the parses are with Necroblight or not (which is by far the strongest spec, once 6.1 goes live).

 

 

I suggest you to play both specs and get a feel for them yourself and base your choice upon which you enjoy the most.

Once you've figured it out, get some logs and we'll be able to help you out, if there're any issues.

Edited by ChaiNspliT

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I don't know where the above person gets his information from but I would kindly ask you to start posting numbers or proof instead of just saying X is better than Y without any information backing up your claim.

 

Currently for 6.0.3 on Single Target Frost 2H is still slightly ahead as you can see here:

ECGl3zS.png

 

In 6.1 this will change to:

BV1OjuZ.png

 

source: http://sonofalich.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=57#6.0.3simulations

 

I said the difference on single target fights is not big and he can play whatever he wants. Tell me how exactly does a difference of ~400 DPS make my statement wrong? 

I just said Unholy is currently better than Frost because of the AoE and the fights in BrF. Since Frost and Unholy have different stat priorities, you can't exactly switch specs whenever you feel like it, which means you're just better off getting gear for Unholy. 

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I said the difference on single target fights is not big and he can play whatever he wants. Tell me how exactly does a difference of ~400 DPS make my statement wrong? 

I just said Unholy is currently better than Frost because of the AoE and the fights in BrF. Since Frost and Unholy have different stat priorities, you can't exactly switch specs whenever you feel like it, which means you're just better off getting gear for Unholy. 

 

It's WAY MORE than 400 DPS, that sims takes NO MOVEMENT and perfect KM proc-usage into account, which will never happen in BrF (every fight involves movement).

 

If you look at real world results, the difference for ST can get as high as 3k DPS.

Edited by ChaiNspliT
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Indeed the difference between DPS of both spec can get really huge moreover with this "Necroblight" strategy that will apparently shine in 6.1, the difference will surely get bigger specially in AoE. But it makes me wonder, if the Frost spec gets bested by the Unholy spec in terms of PvE DPS then what would be the real utility that brings a Frost DK to a raid that the Unholy DK can't bring? Or is maybe the Frost DK is now more of a PvP spec?. Personally I don't like the tought of an obsolete spec especially in a game where I've been witness of "OP classes" being thrash in hands of those unskilled.

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then what would be the real utility that brings a Frost DK to a raid that the Unholy DK can't bring?

 

There really isn't anything an Unholy DK couldn't do, that a Frost DK can.

 

2H Frost only really shines, as you guessed, in PvP and whenever burst over a very short period of time is needed (as for example in CM's, but UH shines in burning down add groups on the other hand, so they're even). DW Frost is wastly inferior to Unholy's AoE and the ST is plain crap.

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