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Cantdoit

Balance Log Request

13 posts in this topic

Hi guys looking for some help with one of my raiders, her damage dropped pretty drastically over the last couple of weeks and I'm trying to find out what she could do better. I don't play a druid but I compared her spell casts to some other high percentile boomkins and they seem pretty similar. Thanks in advance.

 

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/S%C3%A0rah/simple

 

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qGxPMak6Vb972jgw 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yML3YpVdXAvzaJZq

 

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Hello Cantdoit.

First of all the first link doesnt work :( So I checked the 2nd one you posted and the ones from Wednesday

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qGxPMak6Vb972jgw

 

I know what youre saying. 28k dps with 681 ilvl is bad...

Here what I found out what Sarah is doing wrong and what she needs to go better:

 

In general she should maybe read some topics here at icyveins druidforum :) A lot of issues she has do other players also have.

 

Gruul:

- Very Well Dopuptime

- Dont Starfall for singletarget. Dont know why she did that..but...Even thou, lets say, she has Lunar Empowerment buff up and has 3 Starsurge charges reads, a Starsurge casts does do more damage than Starfall

- According to Armory she has 4pc of t17. I think didnt had it on gruul yet...if i am wrong, please correct me than I will say here something too

- 00:00:38.167Sàrah casts Rejuvenation on Sàrah This shoud not happen. DPS loss.. If she has low hp and needs an hp boost better use a healpotion or talent Renwal. Ysera's Gift isnt that good anymore. The amout of heal in total what it does, doesnt really mather. its better to have Renewal for an additional healing boost if needed

- She sometimes casts twice Starsurge or Moonfire in a row. Unncecessary.

- Her "rotation" is wrong. E.g. She casts Moonfire or Sunfire when she entries the specifis Eclipse.. Thats no good. Please reapply those Dots at Eclipse Peak (100) only.  Thats why her Dot damage is not that hight although she has almost 100% uptime.

- Better rotation would be a kind of this (I know this is very situationable and depends on procs like haste etc).
  For example as a Basic demonstration we Start now at Solar peak (100) and we are about to move toward Lunarpeak:

  - 100 Solar: Sunfire at peak

  - 100 - 30/40 Solar: Wrath 2 times

  - 30Solar to ~ 20 Lunar: Starfire (will Finish in Lunar)

  - Starsurge

  - 60/70 Lunar: Starfire

  - 100 Lunar: Moonfire

  - Starfire

  - ~40 Lunar: Wrath (will finish in Solar)

  - Wrath to Solarpeak (Starsurge somewhere in between if you can afford one. Always spend at least one SS charge for Lunar)

  - back to begin

- Hehe, like in every topic here: DONT macro Inc/CA together. INC has a 1,5 GCD before you can cast anything else. So if you use them both together at the same time, you wast 1,5 seconds of CA for nothing. Inc -> wait GCD -> then pop CA -> then Moonfire etcetc

 

 

Oregorger:

- Dotuptime to low. Keep them up even in p2 (rolling phase). Dot and Starfall every create in the near and stay in the very center of the room. She will have Oregorger in target, able to cast at him Dots and Wraths/Starfires most of this phase.

- She died from the collision. Open ya eyes :)

- She had to cast a lot of Rejvus and HealingTouchs onto herself. Not good for DPS. Your raid should optimize that.

- INC/CA macro'd together. Same as above. And rotation also same as above

 

Hans&Franz:

- Dotuptime good

- More Starfall.. Hit Starfall at pull (she did, im just sayin in general). For 2 targets, only Starfall in Lunar (not in Solar) .Dont Starfall when 1 Boss jumps away. Switch to Starsurge then.

- Like at Gruul. Too many casts of MF or SF in a row at one target

00:00:41.799 Sàrah casts Moonfire on Franzok arrow_right2.png 00:00:43.233 Sàrah casts Moonfire on Franzok arrow_right2.png 00:00:44.562 Sàrah casts Moonfire on Franzok

 

00:02:49.589 Sàrah casts Sunfire on Hans'gar arrow_right2.png 00:02:51.658 Sàrah casts Sunfire on Hans'gar arrow_right2.png 00:02:54.407 Sàrah casts Sunfire on Hans'gar arrow_right2.png 00:02:59.024 Sàrah casts Rejuvenation on Sàrah arrow_right2.png 00:03:00.994 Sàrah casts Moonfire on Hans'gar arrow_right2.png 00:03:02.082 Sàrah casts Moonfire on Hans'gar arrow_right2.png 00:03:03.205

Sàrah casts Moonfire on Hans'gar

 

- DOnt use INC/CA in Solar. ALWAYS in Lunar (at the begin of the eclipse)

- INC / CA macro'd together (like mentioned bevor)

- rotation (like mentioned bevor)

 

=> At Hans and Franz you need to be very clever to do a ton of DPS. Too much movement by avoiding the Presses and Plates will kill your DPS. The Belt isnt there to get rid last christmas turkey stored in your body haha :D. Stay as much as possible in the gaps while belt is moving. E.g. you can avoid the Plates without even really moving. Just stay at the gaps between the belt. And if, lets say, a plate will pass by your right side, just move an inch to the left end of this particular gap (not too far left or you will be on the moving belt ;)). The plate will pass by your right side without harming you. Same is for Presses. The only moment you want to move is, ofc, both side will be hit by an press

 

As already said she should read some topics here and listen to my answers you are about to tell her. She will increase her DPS soon.

Feel free to report back with new logs are to ask any further question at anytime

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Everyone in that raid needs to be single targeting the primalists when they're vulnerable.

 

Operators > Engineers > Primalists > Firecallers > Security

 

Aside from that these are wipes and her dps is skewed really by her opener 70k to my 150k. We lust at the start as well. That's mostly me just multidotting everything at the start and sitting in middle starfalling and focusing down operator. Finished at 64k by keeping starfall rolling and emphasis on lunar empowerments. Saving my 2nd 3 min for first primalist, and 3rd. If that phase is giving you trouble you should have 2 different grousp of dps alternate their cooldowns each elementalist and use their potions there. The last phase is a joke if ppl just drop the melts in the back.

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- 00:00:38.167Sàrah casts Rejuvenation on Sàrah This shoud not happen. DPS loss.. If she has low hp and needs an hp boost better use a healpotion or talent Renwal. Ysera's Gift isnt that good anymore. The amout of heal in total what it does, doesnt really mather. its better to have Renewal for an additional healing boost if needed

 

It is perfectly acceptable to cast a Rejuvenation, this should not be picked on. Damage is not everything.

 

 

- Her "rotation" is wrong. E.g. She casts Moonfire or Sunfire when she entries the specifis Eclipse.. Thats no good. Please reapply those Dots at Eclipse Peak (100) only.  Thats why her Dot damage is not that hight although she has almost 100% uptime.

 

You don't want to spend time reapplying your dots when you're at the peak of your eclipse bar. Your hardcasts and Starsurges benefit much more from the full mastery effect than the insignificant direct damage of your dots. Reapply dots whenever needed ofc, but try to time it so that you reapply your dots on your way out of an eclipse - towards the middle - just before you lose the lunar/solar peak buff (around 30-40 eclipse power). Telling her to focus on applying her dots at incorrect times will cause her even more trouble with her rotation for something I don't even consider a gain.

Edited by Shedim

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It is perfectly acceptable to cast a Rejuvenation, this should not be picked on. Damage is not everything.

 

Yes your right, but if you have already used a healtonic and Renewal. Then, ofc, if needed you will heal yourself with HT or Rejuv.

But aslong as you havent used above mentioned it is just a waste of DPS.

 

 

 

You don't want to spend time reapplying your dots when you're at the peak of your eclipse bar. Your hardcasts and Starsurges benefit much more from the full mastery effect than the insignificant direct damage of your dots. Reapply dots whenever needed ofc, but try to time it so that you reapply your dots on your way out of an eclipse - towards the middle - just before you lose the lunar/solar peak buff (around 30-40 eclipse power). Telling her to focus on applying her dots at incorrect times will cause her even more trouble with her rotation for something I don't even consider a gain.

 

I will not say you are wrong. definitely not... But leave this stuff to advanced players seeking for some extra DPS. Moonkins here seeking for help (most of them), should simple just learn the basics and then move on later. I just think if I / we are now telling people: "reapply Dots when you enter/exit Eclipse" will get confused, just because on the other hand, they should not do this if you do have an MultiDot-fight like furnace. At those fights you should definitely Dot at Eclipse peak. An other example will be adds (e.g. beast packs at Bestlord). You should also try to Sunfire them at peak for maxDPS....

I am just worried that people will get confused because of too much variations to handle with as an beginner....First learn basics then look for extra DPS

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Yes your right, but if you have already used a healtonic and Renewal. Then, ofc, if needed you will heal yourself with HT or Rejuv.

But aslong as you havent used above mentioned it is just a waste of DPS.

 

You don't necessarily want to use Healing Tonic or Renewal on the first opportunity, so the Renewal > Healing Tonic > Rejuvenation statement is false. If you're dangerously low on health but there is an upcoming mechanic in half a minute where Renewal and Healing Tonic must be available in order for you to survive (Let's say a balcony on Blackhand), using that Rejuvenation first is a way better call. I didn't have a look at the particular log from OP regarding his use of Rejuvenation, but my point is: don't pick on people for using Rejuvenation, hybrids heal far too little already. 

 

 

I will not say you are wrong. definitely not... But leave this stuff to advanced players seeking for some extra DPS. Moonkins here seeking for help (most of them), should simple just learn the basics and then move on later. I just think if I / we are now telling people: "reapply Dots when you enter/exit Eclipse" will get confused, just because on the other hand, they should not do this if you do have an MultiDot-fight like furnace. At those fights you should definitely Dot at Eclipse peak. An other example will be adds (e.g. beast packs at Bestlord). You should also try to Sunfire them at peak for maxDPS....

I am just worried that people will get confused because of too much variations to handle with as an beginner....First learn basics then look for extra DPS

 

Your reasoning makes no sense. How is teaching people to refresh their dots at one position (40 going towards middle) on the eclipse bar more complicated than at another position (reaching 100)?

 

Besides, refreshing dots at 100 eclipse power to benefit from the peak buff is not a dps gain compared to just refreshing your dots whenever needed (ignoring peak buffs). Why? You might gain a slight amount of direct damage from your Moonfire/Sunfire, but this gain is nullified by the fact that you spend less time using harder hitting abilities when you benefit fully from your mastery.

 

Asking people to incorporate such habit for no gain is probably the best example of making beginners confused.

 

A beginner shouldn't worry about the Lunar/Solar peak buff at all. Refresh your DoTs at best convenience. The advanced user should try to benefit from the peak buff, but only right before it expires as you move towards the middle of the eclipse bar. This becomes even more true for multi-target situations, opposite of what you're claiming. Let's take Iron Maidens as an example. You can take even more advantage of your mastery here by always refreshing your dots/starfall right at the middle of the eclipse bar (0-30 eclipse power in both directions), while hardcasting at the peak of your eclipses. Your dots aren't affected by when they were casted, the initial damage is irrelevant, your Wraths/Starfires on the other hand will end up dealing 10-20% more damage if you include this habit in your rotation.

Edited by Shedim

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Also, Ysera's Gift is an excellent talent and pulls ahead in nearly every scenario. 

 

Ysera's Gift heals for 0,80% HP/sec

Renewal heals for 0,25% HP/sec

 

As you can see, the numbers favor Ysera's Gift by a large margin. You only want to use Renewal if you find yourself in danger of dying often or if Ysera's Gift is overhealing more than 2/3 of the time. 

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We'll i think we could discuss this all day long. As said, I am not saying youre wrong. I just have a diffrent opinion.

As for the renewal / healingtonic / Ysears gift discussion..
I dont know who you are, unfortunately you dont share any armory or other information about yourself. So I cant say if you play in a Top10 / 50 / 100 etc guild with awsome healers or not. What I know for sure is, that, from my point of view, as an raider with 2 r/w in a Top1800 guild i cannot sometimes rely on my healer all the time. I do want that extra healing CD (renewal).
Guys here asking for help are also not part of an Topguild with tophealer. They should also have this extra heal-CD.

And, sry mate, your argument about Ysera's Gift heals for 0,80% HP/sec and Renewal heals for 0,25% HP/sec is silly if you just rely on this numbers.

If I am 90% of the fight full hp'd I have no benefit from it (yes it then heals other players if they are not fully healed, but the amount of heal is just too small..theres no real benefit). And how does this talent help me when I am dead where an extra heal-cd could have saved my life?? An extra heal CD to use if necessary is much more worthy.

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Did my third line completely disappear for you ? 

 

As you can see, the numbers favor Ysera's Gift by a large margin. You only want to use Renewal if you find yourself in danger of dying often or if Ysera's Gift is overhealing more than 2/3 of the time. 

 

According to this quote I am advising you to pick Renewal if you're in the exact position you're describing, where you're in danger of dying a lot or you feel the healers are sniping the meters, meaning people are topped off constantly.

 

It doesn't matter if I'm in a top 100 guild or in a top 2000 guild, I am being purely theoretical. Ysera's Gift will pull ahead on most fights, simply because the overall output is much much higher. Therefore you should aim to use Ysera's Gift, unless that choice puts you in risk of dying.

 

You can't conclude that Ysera's Gift is a poor talent just based on your own experience with bad healers. That might not apply to other players. 

 

Btw, I am curious why you think it is extra important to refresh/apply your DoTs during eclipse peak on AoE fights compared to single target. 

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Did my third line completely disappear for you ? 

 

 

Not really. But before the fight starts and this situation appears where I want to use Renewal, I am not able to say "will I need it or not??". Raid will not die just because I havent spec YG, But I could die if I havent used Renewal. Its just precaution.

 

 

Btw, I am curious why you think it is extra important to refresh/apply your DoTs during eclipse peak on AoE fights compared to single target. 

 

At a certain amount of adds / targets standing close together (e.g. pack beasts / adds in p1 at furnace) a one time casted Sunfire at peak which hits 7-8 targets will do more DPS than a Wrath at peak. Thats my thoughts.

As said I dont say you are wrong... for singletargets or 2-3s etc, if I deeply think about it, you may be right. I will test this definitily next ID. So far, I checked a lot of logs of top ranked Moonkins and they where just reapplying them at peak. => Ok will do this the same and havent been unsuccessful. But theres always space left for more....This theoretical discussion is the same as for SotF. In theory SotF is THE best for Singletarget such as Gruul, but for any reasons it seems not to be THE best talent, cause a lot  people used INC which got top ranked. But SotF players did also get ranked..Seem to be really close. And i think it will be for "when to reapply Dots" the same.

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I am myself using SotF getting very high percentiles on Gruul. It depends on your kill time and on whether you're a Troll or not for Berserk. 

 

Your approach to multidotting AoE packs is wrong, so let me correct this: The initial damage of Sunfire will only hit your target. The DoT spreads to everyone but the initial damage is only dealt to the primary target, thus only one target benefits from the Solar Peak. 

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Sorry I've been MIA recently, thanks for all the feedback, I'm reading through it, I'm going to relay it to her and see what else we can do.

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Ehm, you shouldn't really bother with reapplying dots at peak unless you don't have enough time to cast a full spell, and the dot will have to be reapplied within the current cycle, but that's not easy to track, so just stick to reapply when needed :)

Incarnation is slightly better than SotF, but difficult to use, so it's better to stick with SotF. That will also provide you with the opportunity to cast CA on cd instead of waiting to line it up with Inc.

 

She also needs a lot more crit.

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