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Voidheart

Considering Aff/Destro as my dual spec for Heroic BRF

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Hello everyone,

 
I REALLY appreciate your help on this thread so please bear with me.
 
First, a brief intro. I had played WoW since vanilla, quit after WotLK, and then back at start of WoD. I am currently ilvl 681 with 4p tier (2 heroic, 2 normal).
 
When HighMaul was released, I was very comfortable as Affliction, managed 7/7 HC and 2/7 Mythic, all as affliction. Very competitive with DPS (except Tectus) in my guild, easily in top 3.
 
When BRF was released, it became clear to me that affliction wasn't going to cut it for many fights, so I forced myself to learning Demo, but I find it very frustrating to play even after reading a lot of guides.
 
Anyway, I decided to continue playing Affliction for all Single Target or Two Target BRF encounters (Gruul / Oregorger/ Flamebender / Hans), and I am still very competitive in DPS, playing perfectly.
 
But for the AOE/Cleave BRF encounters (Beastlord, Kromog, Thogar, Maidens, Furnace), I forced myself to play Demo with Cataclysm. Here is the problem! My performance is either crap or good, but never perfect. During Cleave parts of the encounters (Maidens before 20%, Kromog Hands phase, etc.) my DPS is very good, otherwise I am totally gimped. In furnace P1 I am doing good, but then in P2 again I am gimped, totally not happy with myself.
 
My guild is now 8/10 Heroic BRF, and we are still stuck at Furnace heroic for 3 damn weeks, and my performance as Demo in this fight is far from helping.
 
So today something occurred to me. What if I changed my dual spec to Aff/Destro. I read that Destro is easier to master than Demo. For example, if I go Destro w/ Charred Remain and GoSAC on Furnace, will I see a lot of improvement? What about Kromog, Beastlord and Maidens, can I also go Destro on them and see better peformance if I can master Destro?
 
Another alternative is to go Destro/Demo, but I really want to avoid Demo altogether if I can, without severely gimping myself.
 
Really appreciate your help. Thanks.

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My personal opinion is that Affliction does not really have a spot right now in BRF.  Demo performs so well on every fight, and those that its more questionable on after the DB nerf, Destro is generally doing very well.  You don't sounds like you hate Demo, just frustrated at your performance with it, I would suggest you try and work on Demo to get more comfortable with it and don't waste your time with Affliction, unless its a spec you really wish to play to make the game more enjoyable for you.

 

Lets focus on Blast Furnace specifically.  What parts of the fight is the guild stuck on?  I am assuming Elementalists are not getting killed in time?  Adds building up too much?  Is phase 1 going down OK or are adds a problem?

 

As Demo you want to try and keep Doom and Corruptions rolling on as many targets as you can during the "down time" while dropping HoG anywhere it will hit the most targets to build up your fury quickly.  Dont worry about pushing hard dmg on anything and pool up your fury for the elementalist pushes.  You should have a full fury bar and Darksoul for each one.  You can either go for being really strong on two elementalists with 20S darksoul (better in p3 too) or decently strong on all 4 elementalists with 10s darksoul.  if you have monks using touch of D and coordinate cooldowns with other raiders, the 20s darksoul is probably best.

 

Destro CR is really good for Furnace, excellent AoE.. excellent snap burst for elementalists... good single target for phase 3..

 

Does your raid have weak AoE or strong AoE?

 

When do you guys use Hero?  heroing on 4th elementalist to make that dps check and cleanup adds for a good transition to P3 can help if your getting stuck there.

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My personal opinion is that Affliction does not really have a spot right now in BRF.  Demo performs so well on every fight, and those that its more questionable on after the DB nerf, Destro is generally doing very well.  You don't sounds like you hate Demo, just frustrated at your performance with it, I would suggest you try and work on Demo to get more comfortable with it and don't waste your time with Affliction, unless its a spec you really wish to play to make the game more enjoyable for you.

 

Lets focus on Blast Furnace specifically.  What parts of the fight is the guild stuck on?  I am assuming Elementalists are not getting killed in time?  Adds building up too much?  Is phase 1 going down OK or are adds a problem?

 

As Demo you want to try and keep Doom and Corruptions rolling on as many targets as you can during the "down time" while dropping HoG anywhere it will hit the most targets to build up your fury quickly.  Dont worry about pushing hard dmg on anything and pool up your fury for the elementalist pushes.  You should have a full fury bar and Darksoul for each one.  You can either go for being really strong on two elementalists with 20S darksoul (better in p3 too) or decently strong on all 4 elementalists with 10s darksoul.  if you have monks using touch of D and coordinate cooldowns with other raiders, the 20s darksoul is probably best.

 

Destro CR is really good for Furnace, excellent AoE.. excellent snap burst for elementalists... good single target for phase 3..

 

Does your raid have weak AoE or strong AoE?

 

When do you guys use Hero?  heroing on 4th elementalist to make that dps check and cleanup adds for a good transition to P3 can help if your getting stuck there.

 

Blast Furnace is the primary reason why I created this post. I am failing very hard on it as Demo with Cataclysm.

In Phase 1, I am actually in top 3 DPS, no problem. Our raid splits, I go with the group on the right, and usually the adds are clumped together so I use Catalysm and CW with DS (glyphed) every minute, and then prioritising Bellows, Engineers, Forman, etc.

But, come Phase 2, my overall DPS goes way down, and my burst DPS on elementalist is bad as well. First of all, the adds in Phase 2 are not clumped or tanked together like they are in phase 1, so it is much harder to use cataclysm or CW effectively. As such my AOE is not effective. I also tried saving cataclysm on the elementalist for the burst damage, still doesn't seem very effective. If I go Demonic Servitude, I think i will do even worse, since I don't have the cleave potential in Phase 1. Phase 2  is causing me huge amount of trouble, almost getting me replaced by the raid leader.

 

We are constantly wiping on phase 2. Only twice made it to Phase 3. Usually using lust on one of the elementalist, or saving it till last phase. We have medium to strong raid AOE.

 

 

​Our raid leader looks at my overall DPS, my DPS bellows, foreman, and elementalist. At end of phase 1, I am high. At end of phase 2, I am at low to medium. Hence I suck at Phase 2.

I saw some videos were warlocks are TOP DPS on this fight, so I know that I do suck so much on this fight as demo.

In Maidens heroic fight, I killed it with my guild yesterday. I was assigned to cleave role (not going to ships). Again, from 100% to 20%, I am top 2 DPS. But from 20% to 0% where we have to single target the bosses, and single target the turrets, my DPS position dropped from second to like sixth!

Edited by Voidheart

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I may be wrong but I got the impression that you say Voidheart you do good cleave damage but when you have to ST you struggle? To be honest I think you have to accept that is what Demo is at the moment in my opinion. Yes, we are very strong on cleave however come single target only middle of the pack. 

 

I haven't tried Destro since 6.1 but if you have to learn it then you may not be in a better place. However, on the fights where you normally go Affliction have you also tried Demo? It may help you get more used to Demo and how to store up for and push in ST target situations rather than just the sometimes craziness that is the Cata spec. I tend to get similar results on ST with Demo/Aff so it is unlikely you will be losing much (saying this though I am only an average player). However, maybe you are already familiar with this and it will not help. have you considered posting some logs asking for help?

 

I also read what you said on another forum... You do know right that the people who get the best numbers on fights like these have the freedom to do what they want? What matters on progression is doing what is needed to kill the boss. Perhaps that is ST Elememtalist damage, perhaps that is clearing adds. If you are doing the first then you will have lower DPS and your raid leader/officers should appreciate that rather than looking at your overall damage done...  

 

Of course if I am reading what you said wrong then feel free to ignore. I haven't killed Blast on Heroic yet but what Soulzar says makes sense. 

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I second @spikeysquad opinion.
Blast Furnace is not about chasing DPS chart. It's about using that DPS at right place, right time.

Losing DPS with OP AoE build which is Cata when going from AoE-focused phase into not-AoE phase is normal. Intended. Logical.

Do not try to hit absolute maximum of your DPS there. Top warlock DPS are those who have been assigned to AoE duty specially. Your focus there is to be flexible with your damage - being able to deal with adds p1 and then switch to good focus damage p2.

 

I am not a Cutting Edge neither Heroic raider, but I judge from my very own experience from normal Furnace - which was our issue for 75 wipes approximately.

You've said you think you will fail as DemServ, but have you really tried it?
It works here (for me), and pretty well - you can have decent cleave with Chaos Waves and still singletarget those elementalists p2. I'm not a top DPS but boss is dying and loot is being taken.

Rest of your raid, as you've mentioned, have medium to strong raid AoE.

Let your Fire Mages, Balance Druids and the rest do their job, as they lose no DPS because of choosing to AoE. It's their class mechanic - unlike from Warlock it's not forcing them to lose any of their singletarget DPS.

Take your middle ground, lose some OP big numbers p1, where you have no issues, and try to reach your goals at p2.

Edited by Paracel

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If you're struggling with Demonology then just spec Demonic Servitude + Grimoire of Service. Every two minutes makes sure you have 800+ Fury and 8+ Molten Core stacks.

 

Pop your additional Doomguard via Service, get a two stack HoG rolling on the target, then shift into meta with Dark Soul and spam all your Molten Core procs, finish with a Chaos Wave if DS is still up and you have no MC stacks left.

 

On Blast Furnace you may be spreading yourself too thin. Sure, you should be DoTing everything during downtime, but if you are having issues, perhaps just focus on the main target that needs to die. HoG cleave will help with Fury / Damage, and you will be fantastic for the phases that matter (Bellows / Primals / Boss).

 

If you're comfortable, throw out some Corruptions and Dooms on long living targets.

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Do people still use Demonbolt for this fight? My guild hasn't progressed on this on normal or heroic, and I'm usually one of the top dps as our raid dps is quite low, and I shudder to think of how we're going to progress through that thing. What are some other good tips that you guys might have for blast furnace?

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We're currently progressing on it on Mythic, but as Demo with Cata + AD + Synergy and Glyph of DS, I'm coming out on top of Primal Elementalist damage most pulls.

 

During the 'down' time I'm DoTing everything, then as the Slag is exploding make sure your pet is on the target and you're ready with enough Fury to unload. Most of the damage comes from Meta Soul Fire and Chaos Wave.

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I played Destro for Furnace progress last raid. It's actually really good. Less cleave than Demo but the focussed burst is much more consistent, in my opinion.

Destro isn't dead.

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take this with a grain of salt. but destro is dead last

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/stats/dps/heroic/gruul#per=95,ilvl=670

Affliction is dead last at least for this fight.

 

I played Destro for Furnace progress last raid. It's actually really good. Less cleave than Demo but the focussed burst is much more consistent, in my opinion.

Destro isn't dead.

Yea depending on which strat is used destro can be very close.

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