Alrightz

ilvl 680 Combat Rogue DPS (Extremely LOW)

22 posts in this topic

Okay I have been playing WoW since 2004 and my Rogue have 380 days played time. In the past expansions I was usually in the top DPS chart almost always in 1st place nothing below than 7th place. 

 

I just got back after almost a year off I joined a new raiding guild they were in progress Heroic/Mythic while I was still low ilvl 650ish which it make sense why my DPS was low so I was okay with that I thought I was doing just fine.

 

Couple weeks later I start noticing my DPS is still extremely low even for ilvl 680 Rogue I was following the Rotations according to Icy-veins. I've been trying to figure it out what am I doing wrong this is starting to make me angry and it really embarrassing for me since I've been playing Rogue for long, long time. 

 

Here my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Arthas/Alrightz/simple

 

Also here my total log from warcraft log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/3403373/latest

 

There is another Rogue in my guild he's combat about ilvl 685ish he's usually in top DPS 1-5th place at every single bosses. While where I am I'm usually low under tank or possible just above healers, it really embarrassing!!!

 

However... when it comes to Beast lord or Blast Furnace I'm usually in the top DPS chart only when it comes to multi targets. 

 

So please tell me what am I doing exactly wrong? I've been following exact correct orders for rotations even non-mistakes! 

 

Opener: Stealth Ambush 

Attack: Reveal Strike > SS > SnD > AR > Low energy > Killing Spree > Pop CD trinket > SS x5 > Eviscerate and repeat rise 

 

CDs: Vanish and Ambush again AR > Killing spree (Etc)

 

Poisons: Instant Poison, and Cripple or Leech sometimes. 

 

 

 

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1) Your SnD and RvS uptime is HORRIBLE. I took your Blackhand kill, and your SnD was at 57% and RvS was at 72%. For comparison, the other Rogue in your guild had 98% and 90% respectively on Beastlord Darmac

 

2) Don't hold off on KS for so long. Open Ambush > RvS > SS to Shallow Insight > KS (macro with beating heart) > AR > Vanish Ambush + Prep Vanish Ambush when AR is over and you're in Deep Insight

 

3) The other Rogue in your guild is playing Sub on single target fights since it still outperforms Combat

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So please explain what are the uptime suppose to be for SnD and RvS should I be keeping 90% uptime no matter what? 

 

I'm not sure I understand your question number 2 what do you mean about don't hold off my KS for so long? 

 

Your right but he was combat before if you do check my other logs from heroic fights you'd see him in Combat.

 

I was told that Combat Rogue is all about perfect timing rotations, is that true because that seems pretty hard to keep up perfect timing rotations for DPS especially trying not to die. 

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Aim for 100% if possible. If you read the guide here on Icy Veins, those are the most important things to do

 

Killing Spree is your biggest and strongest cooldown, and you should use it as often as you can.

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Hi,

 

I just noticed this topic and am absolutely seeing the same low dps problem on my 680 ilvl Combat Rogue which i have played for years and years.  I cannot agree more with the description from the original player that posted.

 

I checked my uptime on Flamebender kill - SnD-88.00 percent uptime

                                                                    RvS-79.96 percent uptime

 

overall dps was 24k

 

Here are my logs:  https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ACnD4v7TpQtrWRG6

This includes a kill at 10:17am and wipes - however all show around 23-25k dps

 

I agree with Alrightz, its embarrassing, yeah, I can see some improvement on uptime with SND/RVS, but for 680 this is by far way to low, this includes potting, includes using vanish, AR, not waiting on KS, yes, could switch to Mark of Death over Anticipation with my 2p 17 tier, but, that's not going to improve much - I seriously think there is something else going on with damage here.  I went into another group were we were melee heavy, I was seeing 30k+ so, are the hits/damage output compared to the other classes the problem here?

 

Would appreciate some insight, because I agree with Alrightz, this dps output at 680 is HORRIBLE.

 

Közzie (ö is alt+0246) - on zul'jin us-horde side

 

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Aim for 100% if possible. If you read the guide here on Icy Veins, those are the most important things to do

 

Killing Spree is your biggest and strongest cooldown, and you should use it as often as you can.

 

It is highly doubtful to expect 100 percent use, agreed that KS use has room for improvement, but even maxing this out to 100 percent is not going to bring dps that Alrightz is talking about up very much at all - I also play a Combat Rogue - 680 ilvl and my dps is pathetic and my uptime on SnD/RvS and KS are all 80 percent or higher.

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So please explain what are the uptime suppose to be for SnD and RvS should I be keeping 90% uptime no matter what? 

 

I'm not sure I understand your question number 2 what do you mean about don't hold off my KS for so long? 

 

Your right but he was combat before if you do check my other logs from heroic fights you'd see him in Combat.

 

I was told that Combat Rogue is all about perfect timing rotations, is that true because that seems pretty hard to keep up perfect timing rotations for DPS especially trying not to die. 

 

SnD should be up 100% after your first combo points, as long as you have an active target. SnD can be refreshed with less than 10 seconds remaining, so there is quite a bit of leeway, but you should not clip Revealing Strike as it will not add any of its existing duration onto the new RvS debuff. RvS is without a doubt the primary challenge of playing Combat, since you have to be consistent and punctual with it.

 

Combat is about keeping your buffs/debuffs up and then spamming your buttons to keep from capping on Energy. The other Rogue specs, as well as the similar spec of Feral Druid, have some similarities, but require more finesse in terms of Energy management.

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 but you should not clip Revealing Strike as it will not add any of its existing duration onto the new RvS debuff. 

 

It does indeed benefit from Pandemic. Caps at 31.2s up from 24 when used at 7.2s or less

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Always use Killing Spree before AR

 

Opener should be charged with getting Rvs up with your 2nd global and SnD up with your 3rd Global and then never letting them drop off.

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It is highly doubtful to expect 100 percent use, agreed that KS use has room for improvement, but even maxing this out to 100 percent is not going to bring dps that Alrightz is talking about up very much at all - I also play a Combat Rogue - 680 ilvl and my dps is pathetic and my uptime on SnD/RvS and KS are all 80 percent or higher.

 

Well a good target to aim for is 100% on both.

 

If you ever cast SS or a Finisher against a target that doesn't have RvS on it, you're losing potential damage.

 

If you ever have an auto attack  swing without SnD on, you're losing damage.

 

Both of these should be maximized as much as possible - any time you're attacking a mob you should have SnD up, and any time you need to cast SS or a finisher you should have RvS up.

 

Will these fix the damage on their own? No, it won't. Saving cp's for Evis casts during Deep, maximizing uptime with cooldowns and potions, and min/maxing things like using a weapon swap macro to equip a dagger when using Blade Flurry on more than 3+ targets. 

 

There are all kinds of little tiny details that I can suggest to help improve damage dealt, but until the basics are mastered, there is absolutely no point in trying to micro-manage the more difficult options

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Always use Killing Spree before AR

 

Opener should be charged with getting Rvs up with your 2nd global and SnD up with your 3rd Global and then never letting them drop off.

 

Not as huge a deal to get it up with the 3rd gcd, but I do suggest getting it up before going in to KS. Only difference is about 2-3 gcd's, to get into Shallow Insight faster.

 

I'm sure the actual difference in dps is negligible, it just allows for more Evis casts with the AR following KS if you do it my way - gives more overall cdr, by about 1 5cp finisher

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TBH ny normal opener gets SnD up on my 4th global

 

Ambush > RvS > SS > SnD > SS > SS > SS > KS with Green buff >  SS > AR > Normal Rotation

 

This gives me a 4-5cp SnD and you are energy starved byt eh time you hit KS, no real waiting around for energy either (at my current gear anyway)

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Yeah that's pretty much exactly what I was talking about 

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I posted logs of a kill on Flamebender at 10:17 and a bunch of wipes from later that day, I agree that I could improve on keeping RVS and SND up on a target, I highly suspect the down time was due to mechanics forcing me to move or to retarget and reposition.

 

Anyone have some time to look at the logs.  Another Combat Rogue was available in the later attempts, also seeing the same thing, 20-22k dps and is 676. 

 

I see a pattern emerging with this topic. 

 

My opener is:

Pot 2 seconds before boss pull - Ambush - Revealing Strike, KS - SND(w/2 CP's from Ambush) - AR - SS to build 5 CP Eviserates and take advantage of 10 second cd reduction - Try very hard to get the 5 CP evis in Deep Insight.  Vanish is also being used along with Preparation.  Wait until Anticipation offers 5 pt CP evis's as well.  Repeat.

 

Any log review would be helpful.  I am also having to do a lot more within the fight then what I feel my class should be doing, but, if it helps the raid, fine.

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@Kozzie

 

I will check logs in a second, but my ilvl on my rogue is 675 and I push 30k for single target, with your opener I would suggest the following:

 

> Pre-pot 1 secondbefore pull

> ShS or SPrint to Boss

> Ambush

> RvS

> SS

> SnD

> SS

> SS

> SS

> KS with Green buff

>  SS

> AR

> Normal Rotation

 

I save my first vanish and then prep vanish for my first red insight buff and then use Vanish/prep on CD afterwards

 

Regarding your Logs (only looking at a single wipe as I am at work and dont have the time to look s will look at your longest kill attempt - Wipe 4):

 

RvS - Uptime 77%

This needs to be up at or as close to 100% as possible

 

SnD - Uptime 95%

Better but again try and push those last few %

 

You could also titghen up your usage of AR/KS and ensure they are used once they come off CD unless a boss mechanic says otherwise.

 

Also Vanish was not used on CD, you started off with getting your vanishes and prep on CD but then didnt use them on CD afterwards. Please make sure you only use Ambush from stealth and after each Vanish (you tended to use SS and not Ambush after your vanishes). You only had 2 Ambush casts which is nowere near enough. For a fight last nearly 7 mins you could have had up to 8-10 casts

 

Only 1 Agility Pot used - Not sure if the wipe stopped your 2nd usage

 

Regarding your opener, it took you 13 seconds to get SnD up and nearly 15seconds to get RvS up. If you look at my suggested opener, these should really be applied using your 2nd Global (RvS) and 4th Global (SnD).

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I'll repost some more logs soon, but seeing improvement - every time target is killed in a multi-targeted fight, RvS must be reapplied on new target.  Posting logs soon. So on Flamebender, melee switches between Overheated Cinder's(dog's), back to boss, and in the beginning of the fight the minor add that is there.  Can also see that happening on Hans-Franz.

Edited by Kozzie

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Kozzie, it's mandatory that you cast SnD BEFORE KS. During KS, you still white swing, so it helps a lot.

 

Well, people already said this, but I'll reiterate - got this from your kill log:

 

You got 2-set, so having RvS helps A LOT your CD gaming. Your RvS uptime was 80%.

SnD helps on energy regen (indirectly) which helps on casting SS which is helped by RvS that helps you get more CPs which ends making you cast more Eviscerates which helps on your CDs gaming. See the relation?

 

I've noticed too that for some periods you sat for a good while on your Anticipation stacks, even more on Deep Insight. You should dump them in that period.

 

2 Vanishes over a 7 min long fight. You have the glyph on yet you make no use of it. No Preparation usage.

 

No Prepotting, super late pot (ok, it was under lust, but you didn't have any major cooldown to team up with).

 

Skull of War, although it gives a good chunk of Agi, it's proc is garbage to Combat. Crit has a very low value, compared to Multistrike or Haste. Pick something else as soon as possible.

 

@OP:

 

Glyph of Blade Flurry is useless, take that off.

 

You had MfD, yet I don't see any use of it on your logs. You've been using it? Anyway, pick Anticipation, less to micromanage.

 

Absolutely no usage of Vanish (to be fair, 2 usages on a 5 min fight log, 0 on another), and yet you're using the Disappearance glyph. The point of the glyph is so that you can USE Vanish often. Combat is always in "extreme" energy situations, being able to cast an Ambush for basically nothing on heavy damage buff periods is REALLY good, helps quite a bunch on damage. If you don't use Vanish, there's no point on that glyph being there. tl;dr: USE IT.

 

Preparation, same thing. USE Preparation. There's no need to keep it off CD, only if you're going to have to dodge tank something for a long period (which is unlikely except for 1 fight perhaps? - Carrn confirm this please).

 

For the rest, you're doing pretty fine. Uptimes are good only for few fights that you died too early and one that you had bad uptime (but it's Oregorger, annoying fight).

 

Sometimes you pre pot, sometimes you fight pot, but never both. Try potting twice on fights.

Edited by lipsinch

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Hey Guys,

 

yep, I think it was low uptime on SnD and RvS - here are the logs from this mornings raids - on the Flamebender kill:

SnD uptime - 98 percent

RvS uptime - 98 percent

 

DPS was 27.1k DPS - 4-5k dps improvement coming from SnD uptime of 89 percent and RvS uptime of 77 percent from yesterday.  Additional items that was learned here is that in a multi-target environment every time you swap targets you have to re-apply RvS - also, I paid attention more to using Evis's during Deep Insight.  Using Blade Flurry during Tho'gar while focusing on Gro'Kar Flamemender interrupts netted me over 35k at times.  Again, paying attention to RvS and SnD uptime, and using 5pt CP Evis' during Deep Insight, also was able to use Vanish more effectively, but didn't apply my second pot during the fight which was a dps loss. Oh, and I slowed down and stopped frantically blasting keys.

 

Logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CWNgcRJG9r47qBXP

 

Armory Link:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/K%C3%B6zzie/simple

Edited by Kozzie

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In an overall, your SnD uptime is consistent over 90%.

 

RvS though, falls down on most fights. Take a look on your Thogar wipes, most of them had a really low uptime, down to even 37% - this should not happen at all.

 

You used Vanish on all tries, it's a good improvement. Still a low number, based on the fight duration, but you started using so that's what counts.

 

Anyway, keep it up. You saw you had a DPS increase just because you started paying more attention on things and using them - slowing down will make you able to perceive those things, both environment and yourself.

 

Also, do you have any kind of UI Tracking? That helps a lot. =)

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Hey Lipsinch,

 

thanks for the response and feedback.  My responsibility on Tho'gar Operator includes a huge portion of damage mitigation, ie: interrupts on Grom'Kar Firemender, Man of Arms targeting, and aoe'ing adds, avoid plasma grenades poorly dropped and bombs.  Also, the Firemender in that fight that comes out at the same time Man of Arms arrives, he casts very frequently an interruptable spell, which if interrupted helps healers.  Additionally, lots of movement to avoid trains, and moving out of range to drop off a bomb which I was targeted several times throughout my Thogar fights today.  So on the Thorgar fight, and with the mech's and responsibilities that I am doing,  I would expect the RvS to be low.  

 

For the sake of this discussion and my logs, compare yesterday's Flamebender fights to today's logs on Flamebender - you'll see a major difference in uptime.

 

yes, I do use tracking addon - TellMeWhen - with a Sound Notification now added to both SnD and RvS - along with ElvUI

Edited by Kozzie

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 So on the Thorgar fight, and with the mech's and responsibilities that I am doing,  I would expect the RvS to be low.  

 

 

That's not really true, tbh. Any time you hit a new target, I would hit RvS first. Unless you're just going to kick the caster, in which case you don't need to RvS him. If the Man-At-Arms is standing inside the entire group, put RvS on him and Blade Flurry everything. Alternatively, if he's beside the boss, just stay on the boss and Blade Flurry into him

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Hey Guys,

 

I understand and know RvS application, again, stay focused on the topic and discussion with Flamebender.  My uptime from one day to the next days raids went from 77/89 percent on RVS/SND respectively, to 98/98 respectively and saw an increase in 4-5k dps, the Skull of War trinket blows, and I added sound notifications to warn me on when RvS/SND were about to fall off. 

 

Thanks for all the assistance.  I think I can take it from here.

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