kaaret

Unbelievably low DPS on Sub Rogue

19 posts in this topic

Hi all,

 

First of all, sorry for the long post. Just trying to explain everything in detail.

 

I am a pretty fresh Wow'er (8 months now), but I've been playing my Rogue since lvl 1 and up (now lvl 100, ilvl 637). I think I got my rotation fairly well as described here on IcyVeins, and I've also read a lot of the forum posts on rotation.

 

So to start with the problem: I have an unbelievable low DPS. When I'm in my Garrison and on the training dummy, I get a baseline average of about 9.7k in Recount!

 

To explain a bit more in detail: What I do on the training dummy is to run my rotation, but without ShadowDance. I'm just informing up front, and the reason for me skipping SD is because I feel it's easier to watch the Recount and countdowns for poisons and Rupture (I use SliceAdmiral to watch countdowns). I know that this affects the total DPS since I skip SD in training, but still; 9.7k is a bit low isn't it??

 

"My rotation" is the same as described in IcyVeins' guide for PvE Sub Rogue.

 

I also know that my gear stat isn't 100% correct, however I've used the "best" items I've been able to pick up with the highest ilvl (I've dropped some high ilvl's since they didn't have Multistrike at all, but in general I've tried to use the highest ilvl available).

 

When it comes to enchanting I haven't done that on some of my items simply because the items are a bit low level (I was hoping to get higher level before spending resources on enchanting them), and I doubt that enchanting will "solve my headache".

 

I'm really not sure what can cause the low DPS, that's why I'm calling out for some help. And to point out again: I know that I run the "simple rotation", this is just for testing and monitoring. I still think that 9.7k is low for an average baseline!?

 


 

That was all info I could think of now, please let me know if you need anything more to be able to give some pointers. Also; I've seen people posting logs but I'm pretty fresh and don't know how to do that, so if you need anything please also explain how to retrieve that information so that I can do my part in the best way possible.

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Not only does skipping Shadow Dance skips your entire burst, which is massive, but you're also not applying Find Weakness at all which will make your Evis casts hit a lot harder.

 

Until you're actually doing the ENTIRE rotation properly, you can't really say you have low dps. All I'm going to tell you is that you aren't using your cooldowns properly (or at all)

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First of all, you should fix your talent build so it actually helps you in PvE

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For logs, check www.warcraftlogs.com. Download their client, setup an account, and once you're ready to save your logs, type ingame /combatlog to activate Advanced Combat Logging. Remember to type /combatlog again once you're done and update it right away when you're finished.

 

As for your post, don't ditch higher iLvl items just because it doesn't have MS. Every stat is useful for us - specially Agility. It comes super before Multistrike and Mastery, so it should be your priority. Once you get your iLvl stabilized, you start worrying about your secondary stats.

 

And don't skip Shadow Dance. You're basically skipping 90% of the class mechanics. xD

 

Feel free to come back, we'll be around to give you pointers!

 

Edit: Poster above mentioned Talents, but didn't mention which. =P

 

T1 - Switch to Subterfuge
T2 - Irrelevant

T3 - Ok

T4 - Either Shadowstep or Burst of Speed, your call

T5 - Irrelevant

T6 - Switch to Anticipation

T7 - Switch to Shadow Reflection

 

Switch Glyph of Deadly Momentum to Vanish glyph.

Switch Glyph of Hemorrhage to Glyph of Poison.

Be happy.

 

Cheers

Edited by lipsinch

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wow_icon_ability_rogue_findweakness.jpg Find Weakness is the most important thing to keep in mind when playing a Subtlety Rogue. 

 

This is cut directly from the guide. Without your cool-downs you can't apply Find Weakness and your dps will reflect that.

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Thanks so much everyone! I will follow every tip, try them, learn them and post back my results.

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Just wondering: are you really using the lower DPS (630) dagger in your main- and the 645-dagger in your offhand, or is this just an armory error?

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@Rerox: You are indeed correct, and it's my fault. I haven't thought about that until you mentioned it. Thanks for noticing it. Will correct it when I'm logged in again.

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Hope everyone had a nice holiday! I've made some modifications to my character as recommended above, except the two glyphs (I will do it soon but haven't had much time for gaming in the holidays... - hope it doesn't affect your ability to help me out at this moment...).

 

So I've done the modifications as described (changed mainhand and offhand, and updated my talents), and I've done my best to run the rotation as described many places, and indeed the baseline DPS is better (around 13.2k). I'm very happy about the big increase in baseline DPS, but now I kind of "want to optimize"... So I've uploaded a log from a training dummy. If anyone has got a minute to check out the logs and report back I would be very grateful!

 

Log is located at: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/np1AjrVqYwDkLx4m/

 

As mentioned I'm a pretty fresh wow'er (8 months), so any and all tips are greatly appreciated. I know that I've probably got a lot of issues/errors so thanks again for taking your time and helping me out.

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Your uptimes are good, just fix your opener:

 

Garrote > Ambush x2 > pool a bit, since you don't have T172pc yet > Shadow Reflection > Rupture > Shadow Dance

 

Garrote to proc both Sanguinary Veins (25% dmg buff on target) and Find Weakness (ignore armor) at the cost of 1 GCD. Damage is marginal so don't bother. Ambush to build up CPs (5 ideally, if you crit and get more, better - you delay less your SR/SD), then you SR, Rupture so it can copy (Rupture is a heavy of a damaging skill) then SD.

 

I suggest you pooling a bit because you don't have yet the 2pc, that gives you instantly 60e upon SD activation.

 

You also didn't use your Vanish. Important, as it extends your Find Weakness debuff on target (super important to have this, and the only ways to proc it are opener, Shadow Dance and Vanish. If you time SD > Vanish > Prep > Vanish, you can have around 40s of Find Weakness rolling, where your damage will be stupidly high.

 

Also, Eviscerate the maximum you can while inside a Find Weakness window. No armor = wololo damage on finishers.

 

As a thumb of rule: Avoid refreshing Rupture and SnDs inside Shadow Dances and Vanishes. You already do that with SnD, but you didn't cast any Vanish, and you might have to do so eventually. Try to not. You'll end up getting the feeling when you get muscle memory.

 

You improved quite a bit, but you still can improve more. Also, give a shot @ LFR. Dummies are unreliable on damage you can dish, specially when you don't have raid buffs (your DPS could be up to 17k or so. =D

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Thanks a lot! Will do some more practicing =D

 

Edit: I'm currently looking into the Glyphs. I was just thinking about the "Glyph of poisons". Do I understand it correctly if this is a reduced spell time for coating my daggers with poison, or does it do anything else? Just wondering...

Edited by kaaret

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Yeah that's all it does

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Hi all,

 

Just wanted to check in since you've all been very helpful! Sorry for my late response!!

 

Now it all seems much better. I'm still practicing my correct rotation (it's a lot easier to do it correctly on the training dummy than LFR... Not so much happening around me on the training dummy), but LFR is a lot more funny when I'm not at the bottom of the DPS charts :-)

 

I've now reached ilvl 665 after a lot of LFR, and that's cool! Again it's funny to play :-)

 

I can also see that I have quite different DPS depending on one single target (last boss in Blackrock) versus a lot of AOE in the other LFR's, I have a lot higher DPS where the raids contain a lot of AOE. Is that normal, or should my DPS be highest on the single target raid?

 

My question now is: What, appr., should I be aiming for DPS wise now that I'm ilvl 665?

 

Thanks a lot again everybody for all the inputs and pointers!

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Depends on the fight. Blackhand is a complicated fight because all of the movement you do. That screws up a bit the DPS. Since you're using LFR fights to learn, it's a bit hard since tanks turn on their fu- the police and move the boss so much it's hard to position yourself properly. Usually for Sub ST is higher than AoE, but when it comes to fights with a lot of movement (and put a difficulty increase when paired with random people that may not know that well the fight or how to tank properly), your DPS may go downhill a bit.

 

Don't be upset tho, keep trying. Once you get the gist of it and start participating into a core, you'll see that things run a bit more smoother. =)

 

As for now, just keep on improving your rotation and feeling comfortable with it. And focus on getting tier parts. =P

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Depends on the fight. Blackhand is a complicated fight because all of the movement you do. That screws up a bit the DPS. Since you're using LFR fights to learn, it's a bit hard since tanks turn on their fu- the police and move the boss so much it's hard to position yourself properly. Usually for Sub ST is higher than AoE, but when it comes to fights with a lot of movement (and put a difficulty increase when paired with random people that may not know that well the fight or how to tank properly), your DPS may go downhill a bit.

 

Don't be upset tho, keep trying. Once you get the gist of it and start participating into a core, you'll see that things run a bit more smoother. =)

 

As for now, just keep on improving your rotation and feeling comfortable with it. And focus on getting tier parts. =P

 

Pretty much all of this. LFR sucks for this exact reason, cause nobody really knows what's going on and nobody needs to take the time to learn in order to kill the boss. 

 

It's easier to just smack a target dummy for a bit in order to get the rotation down to muscle memory before taking in to actual raids 

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Hi again people, I'm back ohmy.png

 

Hopefully someone still have a subscription to this topic so that I don't have to start a new topic again...

 

I've been training and running some LFR lately, with what I believed was "OK" DPS according to my iLvl (which is now ~706 if I recall in my head right now). My stats are also pretty good I think, not perfect but good enough for me.

 

I've just installed ElvUI which is lovely, but I feel I'm "starting over" again with keeping an eye for all the buffs/debuffs and spells. But this is just practice so I'll get there.

 

However, today I ran a raid in Highmaul just for the Valor points. I noticed another rouge where I (by the excellent use of ElvUI) could see that he/she had an average iLvl of 708. The interesting thing is that I put out ~30000dps, while the other sub rouge put out ~52000dps...

 

I've always noticed that there are rouges above my dps, however I always thought that this was because of a possibly much higher iLvl than me, but now I'm starting to second guess again.

 

So what I just did was to smack a training dummy (the 102lvl in my Garrison) for a bit and uploaded the logs. Please bear in mind that I'm still training with the ElvUI so uptimes may not be perfect, however I still think that ~26000dps (without any raid buffs) is pretty low considering my iLvl.

 

This might be what I think, or it may be that my rotation is somehow completely wrong again, or it may be that my, for now, poor uptimes has really that much affect on the outcome. I honestly don't know, so I'm reaching out a hand again.

 

And in any way: How can the appr. same iLvl sub rouge have a ~52000dps against my ~30000dps?? I mean, that's just extreme, so where am I doing this so wrongly?

 

Here's my profile again: http://www.wowhead.com/list=8777336/eu-sylvanas-fenrish

Logs from todays training dummy: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mAT6q2K39NHcp7hv/

 

Thanks in advance and have a great x-mas!

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Yeah, we're here. =P

 

One easy explanation is "Does she has tier sets?" My DPS (Sub) went from 30 to ~50k just because I got 2pc T18 (from HFC). You got none (except for the LFR parts), so that has a big impact on your DPS.

 

But yeah... Except for Slice and Dice (which is perfect - you're not overlapping it with an active SnD over 7s, are you?), your Rupture uptime is quite bad. It gotta be near 95%, at least!

 

At least point us this other Rogue's armory, so it's easier to explain you the difference, but I guess it's that.

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Hi and Happy New Year!

 

Thanks for all the input. I didn't have time to look at the char's armory (it was a random LFR raid char), but that might explain it...

 

I've trained a bit with elvui since I last updated this post (during x-mas time) so now I'm up in 30k with just slightly better gear (some upgrades via Valor points) - currently at 711.

 

So I guess one last question for this time is: What should I be aiming for with LFR gear appr. what I have today? Is 30k a fair dps using my gear?

 

Thanks again to contributors, I must say that the help, and people, in this forum is amazing.

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I think it's time for you to stop playing LFR and aim a bit higher, into normals or even heroics. Best upgrades you can have are in there.

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