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[Elemental] maximising aoe dps

4 posts in this topic

i'm having trouble with aoe on 3 targets


I understand that you mostly spam CL and EQ. but I have a few question to really get the most out of aoe phases. I'm not really good with numbers and I feel like thats how you find the answers to these questions. These questions are about maximising dps by the way


1: Is a no proc lava surge worth casting instead of a chain lightning? remember the CL gives me a crazy ammount of fulmination stacks

2: how about a proc lava surge? is it worth casting over a CL?

3: I feel like a high stack earthshock is worth casting, is this correct?

4: During ascendance, should I be using only lava beam to get the most out of it


and while i'm here, I do have a few questions about maximising dps again, but this time for single target


1: Should I bother using a full stack earthshock during ascendance?

2: During prepull, should I precast a lightning bolt or a lava burst with no shock? i'm using EotE, so I would still need to cast one before ascendance

3: Does my healing rain stack with another shaman's healing rain?


thanks in advance for the help


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To answer your questions as quickly and straightforward as I can:


1 and 2 Look at it like this, Lava Surge is instant generates almost as many charges as CL does depending how shitty your luck is and it does ALOT more damage comparably. So Lava Surge as always is above every other cast. Going into your second question as I said lava burst does ALOT more damage what I am showing for my maidens averages quite a while ago was 44.3k for lava burst and 11.6k for CL. I am guessing that you are referring to the maidens fight since there is 2 targets there at some points the CL average will be quite a bit lower.

3. 20 stacks of Lightning Shield = Earth Shock cast above all else.

4. Lava beam will give you the most charges and does quite a bit more damage than CL so my rule of thumb for lava beam is 3 or more targets even though that likely is on par with spamming lava blast. But one benefit from this is you can get your EQ procs and get those down as quickly as possibly with the opener which EQ will do the most damage out of everything else throughout a maidens fight (unless you are the luckiest SoB with lava surge procs).


Another thing that you may or may not know that I personally do and see it do very well on a 3 target fight is to keep flame shock up all the time on 3 targets you might lose a few fulmination stacks but you will net many more lava surges this way.


Single target


1. Absolutely fulmination at high stacks does a SHIT TON of damage and will out damage a lava burst any day of the week especially if you have your 4 set it is even better. To give you an example lava burst on average for a log I am looking at did 53.6k while Fulmination did 61k on average. Also that is an instant cast vs a roughly 2 second cast.

2. I personally don't I like casting Fire elemental and pre potting at 1 so they both have maximum uptime and then instantly going flame shock double Lava bursts then popping Ascendance and going ham. Dps wise I really don't think it matters if it does it is a VERY small margin.

3. Yes healing rains stack on top of each other that's why you can run a full Resto shaman raid and not worry about anything at all besides them bitching about how this makes their mastery garbage.


If you want a more indepth explanation/clarification on anything or want me to show you the math for any of this I will gladly do it.

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hey sception, thanks for your feedback. here are my logs (which I have trouble understanding) The kill was made with my way of doing it, and the wipe was trying out your way


I would like the maths, because I did heroic maidens again yesterday (you guessed right) and trying to fit in lava surge procs net me a loss in dps. I also tried your way of putting flameshock on all three


My usual maidens "priority system" goes like this:


>2 stack earthquake

>liquid magma

>18-20 ES

>1 stack earthquake

>chain lightning


during ascendance, I make sure my EQ is at 0 stacks and on CD and I use a combination of lava beam + fullstack EQ


when only two targets are present, I switch to this priority system:


>flame shock on both

>lava surge proc

>18-20 ES

>liquid magma

>lava burst

>chain lightning

>(unleash flame) -> kept for an instant cast while moving between bombs drops


if I were to use your way of using flame shock and lava surge procs while three targets are present, when would you use them? yesterday, when I tried your way, I used this priority system:


>2 stack earthquake

>liquid magma

>flameshock on all

>18-20 stacks ES

>lava surge procs

>1 stack earthquake

>chain lightning


I found it very hard to keep casting everything. It felt like I wasted too much time on flameshocks for my lava surge procs, which ended up giving me much less dps


I also have one last question about single target dps, concerning the spell "Unleash Flame"


I'm wondering when it's optimal to cast it on a low movement single target encounter. Usually, I use it whenever it's off CD but I allow myself one or two seconds of delay to wait for lava burst CD or a lava surge proc from a 15-20 stacks ES. Is that fine? Or is it so important specced that I should use it above all spells, whenever it's up.


Thanks for the help, and also, here's my armory link before I forget

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For my way of doing it I usually just keep flame shock above chain lightning I find it better to make sure to try to keep everything on CD especially EQ. Another thing I would suggest doing is to keep EQ at your top priority no matter how many targets there are since it is just so important and getting to 2 stacks means that you will waste some sort of time for generating EQ stacks no matter how quickly you cast it. 


Furthermore the dps difference before you died between the different ways you were doing it was only about 1.5k is not really that big at all. Another thing that I would suggest doing is to never cast flame shock on this fight unless you don't have enough stacks of lightning shield to be able to max the stacks before the CD is over. Also making sure you do it below 7 seconds is also crucial so you don't waste a single second of flame shock which could be the difference between another lava surge proc and not. 


The way I would do the priority would be

1. EQ no matter at what stacks

2. Keep flame shock on 1 target

3. Earth shock at 20 stacks

4. Liquid Magma

5 Lava surge proc

6. Earth shock at 17-20

7. Flame Shock all targets

8. Chain Lightning


Also I see you are running Unleashed Fury for this fight which I would say do not run it. It doesn't buff CL so I would go with Primal Elementalist due to the movement in the bombs phase making Elemental blast kinda hard to keep on CD 24/7.


Regarding your single target question use Unleashed Flame on CD if you are running Unleashed Fury. The damage you would get from waiting that 1 or 2 seconds for each time would make it a loss since you would be missing out on 1 Unleashed Flame if not 2. 


All in all for maidens I will tell you what I tell every other elemental shaman I walk to. Elemental is a spec that you have to be comfortable with to play to its full effectiveness so if you are not comfortable with another way and it is only a slight dps boost over how you are currently doing it do the way you are doing it since that slight dps boost will not help you in the end.


If there is anything that I left out that you would like me to go over just let me know I am doing this just before raid so I wrote this up quickly.

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