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Is there an ideal spec better than the other 2

19 replies to this topic Started by Greneuges, Dec 18 2012 10:45 PM
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:45 PM

#1
Greneuges
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I currently play primarily frost. I dabble a bit in fire. What im wondering is there one spec right now that shines above the others. I do pretty well as frost given my gear level, when with like geared parties in heroics i am normally top 1 or 2 for nearly every fight. It just seems i have to play my !@# off in comparison to my hunter buddy that i run with in order to be 1 or 2. I will be honest im not nearly as profficient in the fire spec. the rotation just feels clunky and doesn't seem to be as fluid as frost. I have not played arcane in mists yet. Thoughts or suggestions please and thank you.
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:50 AM

#2
midgettoes
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I currently play primarily frost. I dabble a bit in fire. What im wondering is there one spec right now that shines above the others. I do pretty well as frost given my gear level, when with like geared parties in heroics i am normally top 1 or 2 for nearly every fight. It just seems i have to play my !@# off in comparison to my hunter buddy that i run with in order to be 1 or 2.

I will be honest im not nearly as profficient in the fire spec. the rotation just feels clunky and doesn't seem to be as fluid as frost.

I have not played arcane in mists yet.

Thoughts or suggestions please and thank you.


All three specs are pretty viable now, and the top spec changes on a fight by fight basis. Although I don't believe frost is ever on top. (The easiest place to check these fight by fights is either a) World of Logs and check the top 100 or so positions, or B) raidbots [google it and you will find it, i think it's .com]). Fire is still very good after the nerf.

If you find fire clunky, why don't you explain it to us? Maybe you are missing something? It is true that it is quite a complex rotation now, compared to in the past, but it is more of a priority list than a rotation now. Arcane is pretty good, but I personally don't like it as much as fire, and it seems to only just be ahead on the fights it is ahead on.

If this is unhelpful, please post your issues more specifically and I'll try to help you out! :)

Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

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Greneuges
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Thank you so much for the reply. I just found that i was missing alot of the procs due to things still being on cooldown. Im sure if i played it more i would get the hang of it. I was overwhelmed by frost too at first and now i just play it like second nature. My biggest issue with fire was i was unable to get it to preform as well frost......but i have not tried it since my gear has gotten better. I am still not in the best gear but im wondering what kind of numbers in your stat priority does one need to make fire work?
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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:22 AM

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midgettoes
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Thank you so much for the reply. I just found that i was missing alot of the procs due to things still being on cooldown. Im sure if i played it more i would get the hang of it. I was overwhelmed by frost too at first and now i just play it like second nature.

My biggest issue with fire was i was unable to get it to preform as well frost......but i have not tried it since my gear has gotten better. I am still not in the best gear but im wondering what kind of numbers in your stat priority does one need to make fire work?


The only person who can answer the stat priority question accurately is yourself, after running some sims in your gear (it will give you stat weightings for your personal gear level). But in general crit > haste >> mastery.

The problem with trying a spec then going 'oh I can't get this to perform as well' and swapping back, is you probably didn't really commit to the change. As you said, frost used to feel clunky for you, but now feels natural. The same is true with fire (and arcane). Having played fire (pretty exclusively) since forever, I started experimenting more in MoP and frost and arcane both felt really clunky to me, but I like to think I'm at least reasonable at both now (even if not on par with my fire).

Again, looking at the information available I would suggest all specs can be competitive, so just play whatever feels most natural to you. If you really want to be #1 on meters, you probably want to learn fire/arcane at least at a basic level and change depending on what fight you are currently 'progressing' on.

Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:13 PM

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Sagetastic
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Thank you so much for the reply. I just found that i was missing alot of the procs due to things still being on cooldown. Im sure if i played it more i would get the hang of it. I was overwhelmed by frost too at first and now i just play it like second nature.

My biggest issue with fire was i was unable to get it to preform as well frost......but i have not tried it since my gear has gotten better. I am still not in the best gear but im wondering what kind of numbers in your stat priority does one need to make fire work?

I'm afraid that at the moment fire has been, for all dps purposes, nerfed where it needs help. If someone has found a way to make it as viable as it was (or even close to), then I'd consider playing it.

Right now, I stick to frost and play nothing else. I am not interested in arcane, regardless of its current viability. Playing fire with its nerfs would only make me miss the way it was, and therefor angry at how it is.

It's not the only thing I'm mad at about how this class currently works.

Is it justified to hate being forced to stand still (or I guess confined to standing still for all purposes) rather than say, the freedom of running and gunning like any other ranged dps can without losing full effectiveness?

It is the short end of the stick, is what it is.

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:57 PM

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Dannemmar
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Is it justified to hate being forced to stand still (or I guess confined to standing still for all purposes) rather than say, the freedom of running and gunning like any other ranged dps can without losing full effectiveness?


In a fight with constant/predictable damage (i.e. Galaron) arcane with incanter's ward is usable and imho better than arcane + invocation. Of course on Galaron fire is better due to specific fight mechanic.

BTW i like the idea of having a different better spec for every fight but reforging/regeming is annoying especially for the raid who had to wait.
Maybe Blizzard must consider a separate reforge/regem saved for each spec....

Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:04 PM

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In a fight with constant/predictable damage (i.e. Galaron) arcane with incanter's ward is usable and imho better than arcane + invocation. Of course on Galaron fire is better due to specific fight mechanic.

I was under the impression that arcane was best with Rune of Power.

edit: Also, my beef isn't with any spec, it's with the level 90 talents forcing you to stay still regardless of spec.

~Sage

Edited by Sagetastic, 27 December 2012 - 09:05 PM.

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 03:15 AM

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Midtcwboy
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I play frost now because its just easier with raid boss mechanics. but the general rule is Fire - Living Bomb Arcane - Living Bomb/Nether Tempest - frost bomb is tricky Frost - Nether Tempest/Frost Bomb - i prefer nether now because i can stack in on more than one target regardless of where it is, its easy to manage, has no cooldown, and is instant. Living bomb is ok too but you have to time refresh casts of it. As for Incanters Ward, Invocation and Rune of Power Arcane - Rune of Power Fire/Frost - Invocation hands down - Incanters if you take alot of raid damage. even with less than 80% uptime on invocation its more dps on boss fights and dummys Seriously i wish blizzard would give us more passive talents, we have so many things to watch as it is let alone more with these level 90 ones. How can we enjoy the game if we sit there watching buffs and debuffs every 30 secs. Ideal spec depends on what your play style is. I like less complicated so i can focus on dodging and interrupting boss mechanics - so i picked frost. Arcane is great for stand still nuking but movement fights makes it hard. Fire is great for movement fights but i found the dot management a bit much for me to handle, with everything else going on. Frost i found is good all rounder, you just need to be wary of when to use cooldowns and procs, right before you have to move again. If you want to discuss frost dps more send me a pm. Thanks Im 489gscore 6/6 mogushan and 2/6 Hof

Edited by Midtcwboy, 28 December 2012 - 03:23 AM.

Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

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I was under the impression that arcane was best with Rune of Power.

edit: Also, my beef isn't with any spec, it's with the level 90 talents forcing you to stay still regardless of spec.



arcane IS better with rune if u can stay on it...

i tryed galaron as arcane with rune (standing still and ignoring legs damage buff),invocation and IW. DPS was IW>rune>>invocation. But of course fire+IW is the best one on this boss.

BTW i hate lvl 90 talents too.

Edited by Dannemmar, 28 December 2012 - 02:26 PM.

Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

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Greneuges
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well after playing around with the other two specs i have come to a conclusion. I really enjoy being a frost mage. I like the grapics better than the other two specs and i definately damage better in that spec. I went all out for hours last night in arcane on the dummies. Reforged, comitted, learned the spec inside and out (at least i felt so) and i still damaged better as frost and had more fun playing frost. So the heck with it. I am a casual and i enjoy my toon. and In LFR the other night i was number 2 on every boss fight bumping 55 to 60 k..... the damn paladin in our group kept edging me out at like 2k higher. But it was the most fun ive had in a long time playing this game. So i thought to myself isn't that what its supposed to be about FUN..... I love the frost mechanics and the rotation. My only wish......is there an addon that puts a bit button on my screen that tells me when my pets freeze is off cooldown. I try to keep in my head about how much time is left on it but it frequently gets lost in the shuffle of other stuff going on...... I use class timer to track my time left on invocation so i know ..... but it would be neat to have a button that i can pull up somewhere or something that plays a tone when the freeze is up and ready to use
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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

#11
Jongsanim
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Add Freeze to your frostbolt in a macro... Makes the green light pop under your mouse each time it's off CD and you cast frostbolt :)

Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

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Greneuges
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why didn't i think of this lol.......i have macros for nearly everything else lol. Thanks Jong
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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:41 AM

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Sagetastic
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why didn't i think of this lol.......i have macros for nearly everything else lol. Thanks Jong

That is in the macro section, isn't it?

I know it was before at one point.

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

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Jongsanim
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That is in the macro section, isn't it?

I know it was before at one point.

~Sage


That's where I got it from at least ;)

Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:37 PM

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Greneuges
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That is in the macro section, isn't it?

I know it was before at one point.

~Sage


yes it is.........but i should note a few lines need to be added. My gnome constantly saying i cant do that yet or this ability is not ready was driving me nuts so i added a few lines to make it go away. Now i just need to figure out how to get the WE bubbling to go away

this is how my macro looks

#show tooltip Frostbolt
/cast Frostbolt
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast Freeze
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1

Edited by Greneuges, 11 January 2013 - 03:44 PM.

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:39 PM

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yes it is.........but i should note a few lines need to be added. My gnome constantly saying i cant do that yet or this ability is not ready was driving me nuts so i added a few lines to make it go away. Now i just need to figure out how to get the WE bubbling to go away

this is how my macro looks

#show tooltip Frostbolt
/cast Frostbolt
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast Freeze
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1

Well the console lines are personal preference really.
You should keep in mind that spamming anything with multiple commands like that can inadvertently cause you some amounts of lag.
Maybe not a lot, but it varies from system to system.

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:49 PM

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Kashelis
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well after playing around with the other two specs i have come to a conclusion. I really enjoy being a frost mage. I like the grapics better than the other two specs and i definately damage better in that spec.

I went all out for hours last night in arcane on the dummies. Reforged, comitted, learned the spec inside and out (at least i felt so) and i still damaged better as frost and had more fun playing frost. So the heck with it.

I am a casual and i enjoy my toon. and In LFR the other night i was number 2 on every boss fight bumping 55 to 60 k..... the damn paladin in our group kept edging me out at like 2k higher. But it was the most fun ive had in a long time playing this game. So i thought to myself isn't that what its supposed to be about FUN..... I love the frost mechanics and the rotation.

My only wish......is there an addon that puts a bit button on my screen that tells me when my pets freeze is off cooldown. I try to keep in my head about how much time is left on it but it frequently gets lost in the shuffle of other stuff going on......

I use class timer to track my time left on invocation so i know ..... but it would be neat to have a button that i can pull up somewhere or something that plays a tone when the freeze is up and ready to use


Well, personally I use addon called TellMeWhen. It shows icons, when cooldowns is off, when dots is about to expire, when incanter's ward is ended, you can also make conditions (!), with all sound, icon action, screen action effects... Really helps for frost, on arcane too, to track rune, mana and even charges... Posted Image All icons can be made by self and moved anywhere you want.

Edited by Kashelis, 05 February 2013 - 09:53 PM.

Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:52 AM

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Pandariah
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Shoot - I can't remember the way to write it, but you need to tell your macro to ignore the error when your Freeze is on cool down.

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

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I'm not sure using macro connecting Freeze with Frostbolt is such a good idea. Actually Frostbolt can proc with Fingers of frost generating one charge, while freeze generates two (on multiple targets ofc) so u can miss one buff then. Personally i just put it on main action bar separate, what allows to use it casting Frost Bomb, or between gcd when swiching to Nether Tempest.

Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:46 AM

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Sagetastic
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I'm not sure using macro connecting Freeze with Frostbolt is such a good idea. Actually Frostbolt can proc with Fingers of frost generating one charge, while freeze generates two (on multiple targets ofc) so u can miss one buff then. Personally i just put it on main action bar separate, what allows to use it casting Frost Bomb, or between gcd when swiching to Nether Tempest.

It's a perfectly practical idea - great for learning the frost rotation.
Once you have the rotation down then I'd feel it would likely begin to annoy you like it did for me.
My preferred Freeze macro:
  • #showtooltip
  • /cast [nopet] Summon Water Elemental
  • /use Freeze
  • /petattack
Summons the Ele if it isn't up, otherwise Freeze+Petattack so your pet stays on target.

I generally use the water elemental glyph whenever I can so, in combination with this macro, my pet is never out of range for a freeze.
The /petattack line is just my preference though. I do find it useful without the glyph as well.

~Sage

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