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Looking for (single target) advice in Mythic Raid (Demo)

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Hey guys, I'm looking for help to improve my DPS in our Mythic Raid. Last night I felt like I was underperforming much. I especially look for advice for my Single Target Damage.


All Bosses on Mythic:


Gruul Fight:


In comparison with my Heroic-Kills I felt like I was really doing bad:



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Hi Kafqa,


Will go over your Gruul log. Just so you are aware I haven't got to him yet on mythic so my knowledge of the fight is lacking a little. Here we go. 


Opener: Could be much stronger. Easiest option is to check out the bottom of this guide
DS: Your opening DS you finished with 600 fury (DS=nuke phase not conserve). Your last DS was late and hence you only got 1/2 a DS in execute and you did no meta SFs in it. 3rd DS you only went in with 500 fury and couldn't do a full nuke. So for DS we want no caster forms and no DoT refreshes. If you read that page that I linked it will tell you what you need for each DS +/- CWs. Prepare ahead of time so you have enough resources. I see quite a lot of ToC in DS. Do you think you can plan your nuke phases a little better around movement? (Like I said I do not know mythic Gruul). 
5 Caster SFs pre execute. About 6 Meta SFs not with your best buffs. Did you use all of your MC procs pre-execute? 
Grimoire: Number of uses good but Doomy should be just before your DS so that super damage is buffed.  
DoT uptimes: Very good but remember not to have to refresh during DS. GoServ then you have 5 seconds to DoT refresh, if needed, before you have to go into DS.   
HoG stacking decent but again do not use caster spells with DS. HoG, caster ability, caster ability, HoG so you don't rewrite the stack too early or miss a double stack. Not one Chaos Wave. This is the best option if you are unsure (and/or low on fury) but be aware that sometimes, for example when procs are ending, CW>HoG. Again there is some stuff about this under the Advanced Section on the link (I really don't work for them, I just find the site handy!)
You have a very large number of ToC casts (I know everyone gets Petrify and there is some fire line to avoid) compared to other logs with your fight time. Do you think you can make use of your portal perhaps? 
Execute: Only 1/2 a DS like mentioned before. Grimoire used so good but remember to ideally sync with DS. Your potion was used at a most random time during the middle of the fight rather than here. One SBs here instead of SF.  
So a few things to improve on but be aware you did lots of good too. My post just gets far too long if I write everything! It's possible there's a mistake somewhere. If you think so let me know. Good luck. 
Edited by spikeysquad
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Thanks for your feedback, spikeysquad!


I must admit, I did not progress Mythic Gruul with my guild, so I guess some DPS-loss is because of me not knowing the rhythm of the fight. But I see where I can improve and I thank you for pointing that out :)

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so in caster form its all about spamming shadow bolt and hog till we get a big amount of fury?

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Jimlock, absolutely. The only time it is acceptable to cast SF in caster form is during execute phase (boss has 20% or less health) when you get infinite MC procs, or if you are low on Fury and are about to cap in MC procs. I usually try to hover at 8 charges of MC before going into a dump. In Demon form, cast SF if you have a good proc such as GSR, BMC, or even your ring proc. Also, try to time your DS phases for when your trinkets/ring proc. In DS don't bother refreshing Doom or using ToC, it's all about getting as many buffed SF's out as possible. I hope this helps!

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@Curinir: Yes, thanks! I followed the icy-veins-guide and started dumping my Molten Core Procs after getting 4+. I also misinterpreted the "use ToC as filler" and it seems I overused it and undervalued Soul Fire in Demon Form.

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You're welcome Kafqa. 


Pretty much Jimlock. 


Basically I would suggest there are some basic principles that underlie Demo and let me try to explain how I finally learnt how to play it (though I am still learning and trying to improve daily).


Firstly, I began to understand that DS is overall our best buff. Pretty much everything revolves around this. Look at this log (no, it's not mine!) Not sure how familiar you guys are with that site so apologies if I explain what you know. So the green bars are DS. Now look at the DPS (those peaks) during those times. Sexy hey?


So DS deserves some major respect. For a 20 second one we want 800+ fury, 6-8 MC procs and +/- CWs if using them. Once you have the resources you need to find a quieter time in the fight where you are less likely to be running around like a headless chicken. Be aware that often you do not need to rush into DS. Before the fight try to have a rough idea of fight length and then you will know how many DS you can get in every 2 minutes plus the AD charge and how much time you have to play with. Unless there is a nuke phase to the fight then many people will save their extra charge for the execute portion. 


So once you are ready to to go into your nuke phase (ideally with another proc up) pop your Grimoire if ready (this lasts 25 seconds so you have some wiggle room), refresh DoTs if needed, get into meta and then you can DS and SF and/or CW spam and your fury should last you the full 20 seconds. Shouldn't be any need to ToC if you have planned well though of course sometimes you just have to move.  


So now you have strong burns you have a good basis which to build on. Once you have realised how long it takes you to get the DS resources you can now work out what else is extra. That's where progress wipes come in Kafqa and also you learn how to maximise movement phases so it's understandable you did not perform to your full ability. For me and for others who Demo does not come natural to I think these wipes are essential to really learn how to do that fight. Of course each try will be a little different but generally you can get an idea of how many MC procs you get and your fury regeneration level. So now you know what is extra like Curinir said you can then spend your Meta SFs on your best procs (not haste ones). Perhaps there are no extra and that is ok as long as long as you are building correctly. Your focus has to be your DS burns. 


So this is just a brief view of some of the underlying principles. Be aware there are many others! I find Demo pretty difficult to really perform well with but I do like playing it. Planning/resource management and reacting to procs I think sums up the spec. 


Oh to put what you said in some perspective Kafqa and using the log from above (which is probably a lot more likely to have double buffed SFs etc) their ToC hits for an average of 23k and their Meta SFs for 90k.... ToC is basically a last resort.


Hopefully this helps someone. If anyone does not understand what I have said please say. 

Edited by spikeysquad
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Well said Spikey, and thanks for beating me to the punch on this log analysis :). When I get the chance to fully read Spikey's suggestions and look over the logs myself I'll see if anything major was missed and I'll toss in what I see.

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6k is pretty significant Kafqa, good job!


I should be starting mythic Gruul tonight so hoping this is will help guide me a little bit too. 


Opener: It could still be stronger and give you better burst to tide you over longer into the fight. Your first HoG/Cw wasn't until 11 seconds and your first SF not until 17. Sometimes you get unlucky with the latter but you should be forcing at least one with a CW. Anyhow keep practising using the site linked above and eventually it will be so routine you will not have to even think about it. Are you aware of how to get (some) double damage procs on the opener?


DS: 2nd DS: 3 meta SFs (3 CWs), no caster stuff and no DoT refreshes so I think you just had to move. 3rd DS: 9 meta SFs (sweet!) but caster stuff for the last 4 seconds. 4th DS: 6 Meta SFs and then caster stuff for last 5 secs. Unless I'm mistaken for both 3 and 4 you basically ran out of fury and hence this means you did not go in with enough. Have a look at this graph to see what is happening with your fury. Can you see your mistakes? Don't get downhearted your DS were much cleaner and with a lot less ToC but some habits take a little longer to change.


So everybody will have a slightly different plan for when they do their DS. Now you are did them at 0.03, 1:18, 2:20 and 4:27. As you not waiting for the 2 minute mark then mostly you probably will not always have that excess fury to dump like you did. If you do choose though to dump on procs then just hold off your DS longer until you have enough fury/MC procs. You were in no rush at all to get all 4 in.


For the last DS you had a long break but I think then you realised you needed to dump MC stacks pre-execute but actually dumped meta SFs instead of caster and lost of a lot of what fury you gained. So you did this then about 15 seconds later popped DS with about 520 fury. You had a minute until Gruul died you could have held off again on DS. You don't necessarily have to jump right into DS at 20%. When the fight ended you also had over 500 fury. Of course all of this is only something you really only find out during the wipes. Tonight I am going to DS on cooldown (I mean every 2 minutes) and save 2 for execute (if we ever get there!). Have you ever tried this? I don't honestly know what is better or whether it is too manic to get 2 in at the end.


7 Caster SFs pre-execute. Your Meta SFs look buffed until your pre-execute dump. If you know you have had all your DS pre-execute then you can start dumping MC stacks straight after the last DS and not have to wait until 30% etc. 


HoG stacking looks good. Shadowflame uptime nice.


DoT uptime super and not casted during DS :)


A lot less ToCs so well done and 5 teleport uses now.


Grimoire uses fine and with DS so good stuff.


Execute: DS+Grimoire super. Like you said though you forgot your potion. Quite a few SBs in execute but eventually you realised and switched to caster SFs.


All in all much cleaner. I think you should be proud of yourself and now the main thing to focus on is fury (and possibly MC procs as well) management. 

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Thanks :) I really like your detailed analysis of my log.


Like I said I failed one burst pahse by wasting Fury before my DS came off cooldown.


I did never try to save 2 DS for the execution phase, I see how this could work, will definitely try it out.


What exactly do you mean by double damage procs?


And then I guess it's practice, practice, practice ^^

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You're welcome. 


Now having done 16 tries on Gruul personally I think I am going to spread my DS over the course of the fight rather than save 2 for execute. It probably isn't actually better damage wise but it just felt a lot more manageable to me.On the longer farm fights though I will save 2 DS for execute where possible.


I guess the main thing that you need to do Kafqa is to not "panic". There is no rush to DS. If you don't have 850 fury and the MC stacks just wait until you do. Of course me saying this is far eaiser than putting stuff into practice! 


By double damage procs I mean where on the opener you will sometimes get 2 trinket and ring procs back to back. It is possible to force that to happen.  

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