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Mikar

Dual Wield Frost concerns

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To whomever reads this,

 

I have a couple concerns with how I am playing my Dual Wield frost DK. For starters, I have no logs, sorry, and my char is seriously undergeared (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostmane/Melassan/simple) I get that, my concerns are not about DPS.

 

My concern is that I have a ton of 'down time'. I often find myself with no runes or runic power and am literally just sitting there white hitting for upwards of 5 seconds...

 

Opener is as follows AotD 5 sec pre pull, pot 1 sec pre, Deaths advance in to outbreak, pillars, double howling, 1 oblit, defile, (I use defile over NP as I'm not entirely comfortable with plague leech removing all my NP stacks), more howling, dump RP. I'm also finding that NP is a DPS loss for me at this gear level.

 

My prio is based on summonstone.com, reaper when below 35%, howling to consume frost and death, have unholy never capped with oblits, using killing machine procs on frost strike and using that to dump RP. I use Pillars on CD as well as defile. Also, this may help with 1 GCD, but I don't use Plague Leech, again as I'm not 100% comfortable with basic rotation yet to get more complicated.

 

I'm brand new to DPS, always played an H-Pally, so go gentle smile.png

 

Am I missing something?

Edited by Mikar

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I don't have much experience with DWF, this is my first tier raiding with the spec, so I can't help that much. These are a couple of things I helped me a lot with KM procs / downtime / RP management : 

  • Never fully exhaust RP as DWF, you always want to have at least ~35+.
  • Only use Obliterate when Unholy runes are about to cap. I use a swing timer to make sure I don't waste too many KM procs on Obliterate.
  • If you don't have RP for a Frost Strike when KM procs, use it on Obliterate. It's better than to waste the proc by waiting too much. 

Plague Leech helps a lot with Rune Management as well, so I suggest you practice using it. 

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I noticed that you're using both Plague Leech and Blood Tap. Blood tap makes sense, but leech removes our diseases, and NP takes forever to stack up. SO do you only leech when diseases are about to drop and you ahve 2 fully depleteds?

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Most of the time, PL will be off CD ~5 seconds before your NP drops off. If adds are present, NP will automatically jump to everyone so you can PL anytime you want. 

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I've got some logs to add.

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TAZdhamrCbMyBJFp#type=damage-done&source=10&fight=1

 

My gear has gone up a bit too, about to update that trinket to a 69 once I get another 1k apexis.

 

Again, full circle to lots of down time, am I not supposed to use all my runes and just have one on rolling CD ensuring not to cap while weaving procs in there? For the class that is top of the game right now, I feel like I should definitely be a bit higher... even with shit gear. I do admit, on aoe I crush it, but it's not all about aoe.

 

Oh and some of my talents may be off as I was testing things in our last couple wipes.

Edited by Mikar

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Without being able to sit down and delve into the logs at this moment, my first guess if you're having downtime is that you're not doing a good job of generating extra runes using Blood Tap and Plague Leech.

If you use neither, you'll eventually just run out of stuff to do. You want to ensure you're fully depleting runes enough that you're creating new ones to use with Blood Tap and not capping out on Blood Charge stacks. You also need to make sure you're fully depleting two runes when Plague Leech comes off cooldown. It's a bit of a waste if it only gets you one rune.

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Thanks for the tip. I've been bouncing back and forth between Blood Tap with Plague Bearer, and Plague Leach with Runic Corruption. Having to manage both of those cooldowns I know is ideal, but I'm trying to get in to the swing of it all first. Which combo of it all would you recommend I start at, aside from the obvious Tap/Leach

 

If that's really the only way to maximize I give it a whirl and hope that I can manage all of them :) I don't use weak auras as I've always seemingly had trouble getting it setup correctly but I hear it can be a god send. Although I feel like it makes things super automated...

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Leech/Corruption is a good starting point. Once you feel like you've gotten the hang of the rotation, you can switch to Tap. Having downtime is inevitable, you will always have it. Correct resource management will only decrease it slightly. 

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You don't maximize your performance by intentionally playing subpar before you play correctly. Play with both and simply learn it correctly. Keep your runes completely depleted, and make sure you can see how many stacks you have of Blood Tap and when your Plague Leech is off cooldown.

 

Weak Auras don't automate anything. All they do is make it significantly easier for you to track things. For example, when I'm playing I can always see my Defile cooldown and my Plague Leech cooldowns, and I can always see how many stacks of Blood Charge I have. This just makes it easier for me to see the information I need to determine which abilities to use. WeakAuras is something any raider should use. You don't have to make your own - you can usually find ones other people have made and import them to use as is or to tweak to your preference.

 

If you're correctly using Blood Tap and Plague Leech as DW Frost, you should see very, very little downtime. After that, the biggest place you'll waste GCDs is letting yourself cap on RP and losing Frost Strikes. If you're using all of your abilities all of the time, you should rarely ever have downtime in your rotation.

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Kaz, very blunt, love it. I'll just suck it up and rock both until I can get in to a groove. As for Weak auras, unfortunately being the only DK in my guild (who raids) I don't have a lot of assistance there, I will give it another go though with storms weak aura, see if I can figure it out :) I appreciate all the help from both of you, thanks.

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Do you have the Weak Auras for BT because I have been trying to make them but without any luck.

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Johne,

are you looking for one that will track how many stacks you have?

 

If so here is the one I use.

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Edited by Rosaelin

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