Xunii

Fury warr question.

12 posts in this topic

Hello, Im just wondering if blizz didn't make some changes to fury wars and not say they did. last week in hellfire i was doing mid 30k on most boss fights. This week i was 20-25k. same gear for both weeks.

 Also i was wondering  just how reliable info on Simcraft is.

Edited by Xunii

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simcraft is not reliable at all especially when your class is RNGing on top of RNG to do damage.

Don't worry about it

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simcraft is not reliable at all especially when your class is RNGing on top of RNG to do damage.

Don't worry about it

I don't know where you came from or why you feel insistent on polluting these forums with misinformation but this is downright false. Simcraft isn't perfect for every spec by any means but it is about 99.99% for Warriors. 

 

RNG is why simcraft runs thousands of iterations. That said, the tool is only as good as you use it, so taking results out of context will obviously lead to misinformation.

Edited by Archimtiros

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Hello, Im just wondering if blizz didn't make some changes to fury wars and not say they did. last week in hellfire i was doing mid 30k on most boss fights. This week i was 20-25k. same gear for both weeks.

 Also i was wondering  just how reliable info on Simcraft is.

This is just sample bias. RNG does affect your results. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. I wouldn't compare your DPS on one boss to your DPS on another though, as fight mechanics make a huge difference, even larger than RNG. Zakuun is nothing like Kormrok for example, and your average DPS will be much higher on Kormrok due to Bladestorm than it would be on Archimonde, likewise your DPS on gorefiend, due to the large increased damage taken phases, will probably be a lot higher than Zakuun, even though both are (almost) pure Single Target fights.

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Thank you Archimtiros, i think it just seems i have the worst luck when it comes to RNG. it just seem i wasnt keeping up with other members of my group as well as i had. but after moving from SMF to TG i feel that isnt the case anymore.

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Thank you Archimtiros, i think it just seems i have the worst luck when it comes to RNG. it just seem i wasnt keeping up with other members of my group as well as i had. but after moving from SMF to TG i feel that isnt the case anymore.

SMF rage generation is smoother, some people seem to have a better time with it. Playing Fury is all about reacting to procs, yes, but it is also about thinking a few moves ahead. Predict RNG, and know what you are going to do ahead of time if something does/not proc. I like to break each Bloodthirst into it's own cycle of GCDs [bT - X - X], and think ahead of time, since so much is predicated on what BT does/not proc.

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If you're a big time supporter of simcraft then that's your thing but why would you say that I'm intentionally spreading misinformation?

Because I'm not... I've been playing this game for long enough to know just how aweful simcraft is.

It's good for what it is and it'll save you some time but when it comes down to it i'll always trust experience over a simulation.

 

Simcraft doesn't take into account a number of things that are super relevant to your dps.

Like how you do the fight for one.

Do you soak something? do you swap on adds? stay on the boss? how many people in your group are cleaving? how are the tanks tanking everything? and so on and so forth.

 

I'm not spreading misinformation and in the past I've tried my best to help every warrior who came here with a problem, most of them I feel like I've given solid advice that would help them :)

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If you're a big time supporter of simcraft then that's your thing but why would you say that I'm intentionally spreading misinformation?

Because I'm not... I've been playing this game for long enough to know just how aweful simcraft is.

It's good for what it is and it'll save you some time but when it comes down to it i'll always trust experience over a simulation.

 

Simcraft doesn't take into account a number of things that are super relevant to your dps.

Like how you do the fight for one.

Do you soak something? do you swap on adds? stay on the boss? how many people in your group are cleaving? how are the tanks tanking everything? and so on and so forth.

 

I'm not spreading misinformation and in the past I've tried my best to help every warrior who came here with a problem, most of them I feel like I've given solid advice that would help them smile.png

SimCraft does take into account a number of things that are super relevant to your DPS, like how you do the fight, if you tell it to. How you "do the fight" however, has nothing to do with RNG influencing your DPS, as you cited. Number rolls don't change because you had to move, Bloodthirst still only has X% chance to crit.

 

Amount of people in your raid cleaving, swapping on adds, soaking things, tanks moving, has extremely little to do with the things simcraft tells you. You don't change your rotation because you have to move, unless you are slow doing it and end up with gaps in the rotation. Even then that isn't the programs fault, it's yours, and that still doesn't affect your stat weights as much as you might think.

 

You can call SimCraft terrible, but I know exactly how much work goes into the Warrior profile and can tell you it is 99% on target, as it's been verified in game multiple times.

 

I've seen the advice you've been giving out, some of it is solid and basic enough, and some of it is only spreading your own misconceptions.

Edited by Archimtiros

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I do not care if you two wish to continue this debate over SimulationCraft. I will, however, give a friendly reminder to keep it civil. Tone cannot always be perceived well in written text.

 

=============================

 

That aside, I'll throw in my consensus.

 

Xunii: I apologize for the extremely late response.

 

As far as your original question goes there are factors that can alter performance. The best way to go about determining the difference would be to see logs from each week and, even more ideally, would be to see the same fight.

 

Some things to consider, though, just in general:

  • Raid difficulty - was both weeks ran in Normal? Heroic? Were they different each week?
  • Raid comp - did you have all buffs that you had each week? (Pugging can mean you're missing buffs like Crit)
  • Raid size - did you run a 10 man this week and a 30 man last week?

If everything was similar between the weeks then this is where logs would come into play. If variants such as the ones listed above were different, however, then they may be the root of your differences as well. Something else to consider would simply be the people you played with. When you're running with a group of skilled players your performance reflects it just as well if you're running with a group of unskilled players.

 

=============================

 

To my thoughts on SimulationCraft...

 

I will tell you what I tell my raid team. SimulationCraft is a tool. It is nothing more and nothing less. How you use that tool determines it's efficiency. In a simpler comparison, just think of a calculator. The calculator itself will never give you an incorrect answer; whatever problem you input into the calculator it will always give the correct answer in output. You, the user, are responsible for making sure the calculator is given the correct problem to solve, though, and such is the effectiveness of SimulationCraft.

 

If you use it correctly then it is a very useful tool. If you use it incorrectly you will probably hate it and question every single result it spits out at you.

 

The last thing to take note is that it is a tool of perfection. While you can make it account for human error to various degrees, it gives its results based on specific settings and executes with perfection. We mere humans, I am afraid, are not perfect, lol. You may have your rotation on point for the first two minutes in an encounter and screw it up the last minute or two. You may die. You may miss an add switch. You may miss a buff or a debuff. So many variables that can go into a fight and people try to compare results spit out from a perfect calculator .... and then wonder why they're so different.

 

If you learn how to properly use SimulationCraft and understand how to use common sense when reading results then it can be an excellent tool at your disposal. Expecting it to work right out of the box with no understanding or adjustment of settings and be accurate will lead to disappointment and frustration with the tool.

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Thanks for the post and info Sajakain, both of the raids where on normal with the same people and raid size is normaly 11-13.

 Like i said i went from SMG to TG and it feels like i am doing what i should be now. i also got a rotation addon that has helped. Not that i didnt know the rotation but just for it to tell me if i have a proc or not. This too has helped.

Haveing two handers again i have been messing with Arms and even that has been alot of fun. Cant wait to try it with the 4-set.

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The disparity between your dps will largely be due to RNG. Sudden death procs and your enrage uptime will likely be the main causes for the large differences in DPS between those attempts assuming you kept the same talent choices.

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