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toadkult

How much gold do you need to actually win games?

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Several of you told me that you can fairly easily be competitive without a lot of buying cards. At this point, I consider this an outright lie. So I'm wondering how many times I have to get beaten by decks with cards I've never even heard of before I finally have enough gold to have a prayer of winning. Are we talking 1,000 horrible games in a row? More? Because I don't think I'm going to make it another week at this rate. All I seem to have to look forward to is more losing and even more losing. I feel like I'm a sucker for continuing to play it. 

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Nobody said that it would be fairly easy to be competitive, but that it is certainly possible. As I understand from you other thread, you have trouble beating even the 'Expert' AI and normal level adventures bosses. I don't want to be rude but in this case the problem is not your cards but your game play as these encounters are really not difficult if you play correctly. So if you have trouble against those, you make to many mistakes, the same mistakes that cause you to lose against real players. You can deny this and blame your losses on people having more cards, which may be emotionally convenient. Nobody likes to think of himself as a bad player after all. But I can guarantee you that even if you bought 200 packs and built a 'good' deck with that, you would still experience the same frustration. So if you want to stop losing all the time, you will need to up your plays. 

 

One of the best resources for new players is a video series called Trump Teachings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KjtRokhpvM&list=PLvEIxIeBRKSjprrvlbAcbVjzHsnH9PjDX 

In that series, one of the top players explains the basic of good play. He does so by using only basic cards and shows example deck lists for new players and full games where he explains his decisions.  Watch it and learn.

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Wrong thread... Something relevant...hmmm

You can do everything with gold that you can do with money, (with the exception of the new heroes) it just requires patience. Regardless of if you go money or stick to gold, you still need to learn the intricacies of the game. I reckon it's actually a wee bit harder to do that by going all out on money and being able to build the best decks from the off. 

Edited by ReverendDel

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Interesting question as I haven't actually kept track of how much gold I've gained to buy Classic packs.  It's definitely not 100 gold per day for me, I don't have enough time to farm 3 wins per 10 gold to the maximum allowed.  Assuming I've played for about 3.5 weeks and I buy a pack every other day (estimate), that would be 13 packs or so that way (1300 gold).  Then there is the bunch of easy quests to complete to get free packs and gold (1-2 packs and 500 so gold iirc).  So overall about 2000 gold or so all towards Classic packs.  I still lose often, but can still win even when someone is throwing out cards I don't have and have never seen before.  Also get pasted in the same scenario.  It's a toss up.

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I'll watch the video, because knowing more tricks will definitely make me able to win more, but I'm not an idiot, I can see the pattern of wins and losses. On the rare occasion I fight someone with a base card deck, I win almost every time. When I fight a guy with an animated portrait and a gold ring around his ability, and every card is gold border or legendary, I lose. I've only been playing a few days, of course I'm meant to lose some. But I'd like to be losing maybe half the games, not almost all of them. 

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If you want to improve and win more games, the first obstacle to overcome is the attitude that you're losing to people because they have superior cards. Yes that can be true, but I can almost guarantee that at very low ranks a strong player would still be winning a very large percentage of games against those superior decks just by outplaying them.

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I've been playing for a week, of course I'm not a strong player. But what you're saying is even the very worst ranked players in this game are far better than me. That if I improve my game a lot, maybe one day I can hope to be on even footing with the worst players. 

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I've been playing for a week, of course I'm not a strong player. But what you're saying is even the very worst ranked players in this game are far better than me. That if I improve my game a lot, maybe one day I can hope to be on even footing with the worst players. 

I don't think that's what's being said.  It's more that you may need to work on your in-game tactics a bit.  The link Modalko gave should go a long way to helping you shore up your card selections.  It's really like playing chess, not something most people can just pick up and be good at right away.  You (and me) need to read the given guides, watch others play the game so we can learn to anticipate our opponents so we can outsmart them as we won't be outcarding them anytime soon.

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Thanks a lot for the Trump videos, btw. He's showing stuff I definitely would have learned the hard way otherwise. 

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Watched all the videos, felt like I learned a lot. Went back into playing, immediately face a deck of 30 cards I've never seen before that just demolishes me. I maintain that large amounts of time and money are required to compete even at the very lowest level. Every day I play this game makes me wish I'd never heard of it. 

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Another match of being thoroughly outclasses by cards and legendaries I've never heard of, where the opponent actually has more health/armor than he started with when I die. This is nothing close to fair or fun. 

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Here's another match with an animated hero that I know is a loss before I even start.

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Here's another game where I'm dead by turn 7, he has a full field of minions and 27 health, I have nothing at all on the board. 

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There's another loss. Didn't seem overpowered, just a few rares I didn't have. Maybe another 15 or 20 games and I can get my three wins for my daily quest and get 40 gold. 

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Finally, an enjoyable game. Priest also using a base deck, it was very close, but I won the turn before he would have killed me. I wish all the games could be like this one. I'll log out on the high note, and complete my quest tomorrow. 

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By the way, in which game mode do you play? Casual or ranked? Because in my personal experience it seems that casual is harder than ranked, strange as that may sound. Competitive players test/learn there decks out there and farm their daily quests. It appears that there should be some kind of match-making mechanism, but it doesn't do a very good job. Maybe if you play a large number of games without changing your deck at all, but to me it seems rather random and I find that ranked mode gives fairer match-ups generally... 

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toadkult, what server are you playing on, what's your battletag and what time are you usually playing,including time zone? I could add you and maybe give you some small advice by watching a game or two of you.

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By the way, in which game mode do you play? Casual or ranked? Because in my personal experience it seems that casual is harder than ranked, strange as that may sound. Competitive players test/learn there decks out there and farm their daily quests. It appears that there should be some kind of match-making mechanism, but it doesn't do a very good job. Maybe if you play a large number of games without changing your deck at all, but to me it seems rather random and I find that ranked mode gives fairer match-ups generally... 

Been what I've noticed as well, except in the first 3-4 days of the month when everyone is trying to rank up.  That's when casual has the more basic deck players.  I played both last night, found ranked mode to be more evenly matched so I'm back to that as my go-to play mode.

Toadkult, maybe if you took a video of one of your games and posted the link here others could give you some advice?  Just a thought.

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Exactly what rank are we talking about when you say that "even the very worst ranked players in this game are far better than me"?

 

I mean, I generally end my season around rank 17-18. I almost never see golden heroes at all, first off. I do run into enemy decks with hard-to-get cards, of course, although personally I feel like I haven't seen that many recently? I have been playing a lot of Arena recently, so maybe I just haven't been playing as much ranked. Certainly I feel like I don't run into massively overpowered decks every game I play, nor even every other game.

 

To be fair, probably any of the decks I'm using right now would fall into your "being outclassed by cards and legendaries I've never heard of" category, thanks to the time and money I've spent on Naxxramas and Blackrock Mountain, so that too probably has something to do with it - since I have more resources, we could very easily look at the same deck and see very different things in terms of power level.

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In my opinion the best beginner classes are priest and mage, since they have good basic cards including the much needed removals. I strongly recommend the decks that Sottle has made. I am using the basic mage deck and so far I`m rank 15 (thanks, Sottle :D ).

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I recently piloted a level-zero deck (not just "basic" cards, but literally "cards you can use to build your very first deck out of") to rank 15 just to prove to my six-year-old son that he didn't need fancy stuff like Brawl and Dr. Boom to win games. Focusing on the cards is a massive mistake. 

 

Instead, Google and YouTube search for these concepts:

  • Card Advantage
  • Board Control
  • Tempo
  • Value
  • Trading Up
  • Mana Curve
  • Playing to Win (Not to Not Lose)

Personally, I played for about 3 months before I had my first epiphany (the art of Trading Up), and another three before I had my second epiphany (how to maintain Board Control using Tempo tactics instead of Control tactics), and another three before I had my most recent, fairly unique (I think) insight. I call it 'The Value Chain': basically, cards move through four phases: in your deck, in your hand, in play, and swinging for damage.  Each phase is more valuable than the last, but your deck must be able to accelerate all phases to some degree.

 

All that, and I still average rank 12 every month, because I don't play that much. But I can totally pilot a level-0 deck to somewhere near my average rank, which means cards really don't matter nearly as much as you think they do. :)

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Even in ranked games if you're losing 90% of the time, you need to look at your strategy and play style. I have never had a win/loss ratio like that, even with basic only cards. Unlock all the basic cards, look at the basic decks on here, and if you cant improve your percentage after that, you're doing something seriously wrong. You're attitude at the moment is terrible, and I don't for one second believe that EVERY player you come up against has a deck full of Golden Legendaries.

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I was spectating my rank 20 friend and 6 out of 8 games were against legendary cards (4 times against dr. 7), so if he is unlucky, he can have all his games against them.

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The general consensus of this thread is that you don't need any gold (i.e. expert cards) to win, and I wholeheartedly agree. It's possible to win with only the beginner card set. To add yet another example, I got up to Rank 15 my first month playing the game by using beginner decks very similar to the ones on this site.

 

Winning, of course, is not the same as moving up the ladder. A player who wins 50% of the time will likely not move up much if at all (although some upward movement is still possible due to bonus stars). Luckily you don't need to move up the ladder to earn gold - you merely need enough wins to complete the daily quests. With enough patience, anyone can slowly accumulate more gold/cards, which will of course help you be more competitive and move further up the ladder. But again, the more advanced cards are not so much better that it's impossible to win without them.

 

With the addition of Tavern Brawl you don't even need to win in Ranked Mode for the daily quests. Many of the brawls so far have put everyone on the same playing field by giving each person a preconstructed deck. Thus, having only basic cards cannot be a valid excuse for being unable to win and earn gold.

 

At the end of the day, Hearthstone is a game and is supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun then maybe you should stop playing, but I love this game and I think you can too if you have the patience to learn it.

Edited by Darb

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