Holy PvE Opinions

11 posts in this topic

Hello, everyone!

I'd like to discuss Holy Paladins with you all. I've read over everything Icy-Veins has been kind enough to provide for our assistance, but - I'd like to get everyone's opinions on certain things. I've been told that Paladins are very weak healers right now, and not the first choice for progression raids. The problem with that is that my main is a Paladin. I recently (1-2 months ago, now) came back to WoW after a three year hiatus. Needless to say, my Pali is quite different now than he was in Wrath. So, I'd like to talk to you all about that.

Personally, I've been intrigued by the Holy spec's use of Mastery. It's not beneficial for all classes and specs, frankly, but Holy Paladins is quite fun! Oh - I forgot to link my character.

Now for me, personally - I am not having an issue with maintaining my mana. So, I do not stack solid spirit like I've been told by many a healer and website. After all, I'm a big fan of the Glyph of Divine Plea. But here's my first question - do any of you other Pali healers feel like your heals are a little weak? My spellpower is 18K, which isn't very high, as I've noticed other healers with 20-25K spellpower. I've thought about gemming for solid intellect, but that seems foolish, considering it's half the stat weight of other gems. Plus, I have had a good experience with Mastery healing.

The odd part is, I'm not having trouble topping the healing charts. And no - I don't mean that as a cocky statement, please don't misunderstand. The most my Paladin has done is 35K hps. My priest can do about 55K hps. (I've even tested this raiding with my same guild group, and faired just as well with the lower hps.) Also, it's important to note, that I am not an Eternal Flame blanketer. I've read about that, and I find it silly and a waste of time. Padding your numbers is not beneficial to the raid! For example, I don't even have recount up while in LFR. I only use it in my 10 man to make sure that myself (and the other healers) are all doing our parts and staying true to our healing assignments.

So, how are you other Pali healers fairing? Gearing differently than Icy-Veins recommends? Exactly the same? I'm open to all opinions and all advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. Take care!

P.S. - Sorry for being longwinded... I really had to stop myself from saying more. :x Lol!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never mained a Holy Paladin, but I like to think of myself as a connoisseur of healing. I've played all healers and help in big part with my raid team and help call CD's etc.

Anyway, Mastery is a very good way to go and I feel paladins are really good healers at the moment. They can excel more at single target tank healing then raid healing, but they are excellent at both.

To give an example, I have a log from our first heroic Garaon kill from yesterday.


Now when you look at it you might think there are 8 healers, but really the last two are shadow preists that are spamming divine star. Above the two shadow priests is one of our best healers. Geoda (a paladin), but he is on te bottom of the charts. Why? Because he was assigned the sole responsibility of keeping the Pheromone kiter alive. So he did not do too much AoE healing. Then you look at the top of the list. there is Tolzzy, our other paladin healer. He was assigned the responsbilty (along with me) of running with the melee group and healing them as they dps Garalon's legs and when Melee was with the rest of the range group, he would help heal everyone else as well. He ended up on top because of that role. You can also tell by their spell usage that they were performing their roles effectively.and correctly.

Now obviously we have a lot more gear then you, but if you look at their armorys, they are gemming a lot more spirit then you are.

IMO, even if you are good with mana, having more can still help your longevity which will allow you to heal more often or save it for wen you need it.

Ask Mr.Robot also has great pre-sets for holy paladin builds if you care to look at that.

To conclude, I think Holy Paladins are in a great position, as they always have been. They are not the strong AoE healers they were in Dragon Soul, but they still perform really well. IMO, they are the most balanced healers.

Edited by krazyito65
1 person likes this

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for taking the time to share so much with me! It seems like my rotations aren't an issue, based on your logs. And yeah, I haven't been too lucky in LFR, and our ten man isn't the strongest progression group. But that's alright! So, I definitely see the spirit stacking, and will give it a shot. I only have one more question for you, sir. I noticed Geoda has Sacred Shield, and I'm guessing Trolzzy does as well. Is it detrimental to my healing that I have Eternal Flame? That's an easy switch, but it just feels silly, since our MT (my priority) is a Paladin with Sacred Shield as well. Should I take Sacred Shield and keep it on our OT instead? And truly, I appreciate the help. ^^

- Zokura / Xiongmushi

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

For Geoda on that particular fight he chose Sacred Shield since he was doing a ton of single target healing. Though Eternal Flame I would think does just as well when fully powered. Looking through that log, it seemed Tolzzy has Sacred Shield as well and according to this expression he used it primarily on our warrior off tank. the main reason I think he used that spell instead of EF was probably becasue most of his holy power was going to LoD instead of WoG. While as I mentioned before, Geoda probably could have made good use of it since his WoG was more heavy. Though obviously he thought Sacred Shield would do better for him.

EDIT: To say something else, Sacred Shield is more useful on this fight for Tolzzy (AoE Healer) becasue both tanks are taking the same damage at the same time. So there is no tank switch and I'm not sure how Sacred shield acts with a Prot Pallys. To say the least, its pretty good on this fight since both tank tanke the same amount of damage at the same time and one already has sacred shield.

Though I have seen Tolzzy make good use of selfless healer on some fights (I think Heroic Will of the Emperor was one). IMO that tier of talents gives you a lot of choice for play styles and should be taken into consideration each time you want to try to improve your healing. Being able to use all 3 can greatly diversify your healing to make you adaptable to any encounter. To say the least, I know our paladins make use of both EF and Sacred Shield, and the occasional Selfless Healer for specific fights.

Also, on EF blanket, you definitely don't have to blanket, but remember all those HoT ticks from EF will transfer to your beacon target which can help steady tank damage. If you are using EF, you should probabl at least make use of it on people that need the WoG heal and the EF ticks are extra for your beacon.

EDIT again: Last thing to note. Even though spirit stacking may seem silly (I understand, because I played a resto druid from late wrath through early MoP, and I stacked pure intellect and almost reached a 190k passive mana pool in late cata, when the average was 150k~). But when MoP hit, and the intellect/Mana Pool change came into effect, spirit has just become a very necessary stat. With blues, you need to stack spirit. It is just the best way to go. Intellect and more spirit will come with gear. When you have more gear and can maintain a 10k-13k spirit pool and are comfortable, then I would say start making the intellect switch.

Edited by krazyito65

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I made the switch for all my gems, and have tested quite a bit since your response, and I'm, frankly, blown away at the difference 1500 in combat regen makes. Now I feel silly for not just listening to all the guides in the first place. The real test will be tonight in my ten man. But thanks again for the in-depth help! I really appreciate it. :)

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

My Holy Pally is sitting at 20k SP and I tend to agree. Crit RNG has a huge effect; my heals feel somewhat weak until a super Holy Prism that rings up 400-500k. Priests just blow the meters away, but it is what it is. WoG in particular feels underscaled.

I feel confident that I can keep up most tanks, where it seems like Mastery really shines (I've reforged to essentially all Mastery). Spirit would for sure extend full out Holy Radiance spam, but if the raid is depending on that things are probably pretty bleak. I'll try a full-spirit setup once I get a Sha gem and Jade Spirit onto a 496 Kri'tak.

Question: Would an all-out spirit setup noticeably increase the value of haste or vice versa?

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

More spirit would probably allow you to have more haste. But, the problem is haste only helps for controlled burst healing. Its a playstyle preferece that you have to decide if you rather.

Mastery build's are the most common and usually do very well.

If you read the 3-presets Ask Mr. Robot has, they have a good explanation for each of the secondary stat builds. Basically: Mastery = Throughput/HPS. Haste = HPS. Crit = Throughput.

Remember, Haste will drain your mana more then any of the other stats, and you already have the proc from Holy Shock crits that reduce the cast times. IMO if you are going to not use a mastery build, Crit would be the next best option.

Haste is better if you find you need more burst healing on a progression fight.

Edited by Krazyito

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm at 500 ilvl and I still stack Spirit and Mastery, it's by far (imo) the best overall healing. I've tried a haste build, and it was definitely better in some fights like Sha of Fear, which needed lots of controlled burst healing. The only healer in our raids that ever bests me is the disc priest, mainly because of Atonement and Spirit Shell, and no one seems to consider overhealing. From what I've experienced, Holy paladins are the most effective healers in raids, even with mastery absorb shields since they last long enough to be helpful.

Just wondering, has anyone tried a crit-heavy build (spirit, crit, mastery, haste)? I feel that it would be helpful in some encounters, but I'm afraid crit would be just too unreliable.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I do miss crit, terribly. :< I played back in Wrath (missed Cata altogether), and stacked crit all the way. I loved it! Every single spell crit, and it was amazing. Mana? PFFFT. Never ran out. I was an oasis to a raid's desert. Bah! I miss that. xD I felt powerful! Not that I don't feel like I can save people now, just sometimes, not so much as I want to. But, I suppose that's the tradeoff. But to be honest... I'm really enjoying my Druid more right now. :x Uh-oh!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Druid is a completely different play style. Which has you managing a lot of passive healing with your mana. They are actually getting a sizable buff next path which should bring them more in line with other healers.

If you wish I can elaborate more on druids. It was my first healing class and old main. For now I'm going to sleep. I was up all night leveling an alt.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

This forum has helped alot. i did start with a haste build and saw i was almost always oom after a few min. im going to regem and reforge into spirit and mastery and see how it works. my current spirit is 8312

Besides the obvious unenchanted shoulders and enchants ( just got them) i have 10% haste with no buffs. i think thats a bit much, but have a look see on her. This is my first forum post and not sure of any forum etiquette. Thanks.

I have started to do a spirit and mastery build now. the difference is significant. i dont hardly oom anymore and my "HPS" is up. due to the higher mastery thus more "absorbs" that count toward the HPS counter.

Edited by CodyCarlisle

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Dyldoe
      So right now I play Sub as my main spec. I mained outlaw for the first week or so of Legion and honestly I hated sub (not sure why) but after I tried it, it is now my preferred spec among the 3. I know that sub scales the best with gear and is the most superior spec around 870ilv too. I never see sub in pve and usually outlaw/sin mainly (for mythic+ and raids) so I was wondering if I am doing anything wrong?
      For my talents, I use weaponmaster as it is very good for aoe pulls (I can pull about 400k dps on 3-4 targets) then followed by the traditional talents for pve sub (I go master of subtlety for raids) 
      I know my stats are not the best for sub as I need to get more mastery/vers rather than haste (crit is still pretty good if i'm correct)
      I couldn't spec into Akaari's Soul as it breaks cc in pvp with means I loose a hefty amount of dps which is very annoying and I am debating to repsec into it and put up with it in pvp for the extra dps increase.
      My weapon pathing looks like this:
      I seem to be doing everything correctly for dps but I do about 250-300k dps on single target and stays about 200k the whole time. Sometimes can go up to 350-400k depending on how smooth the fight goes but if it's anything to do with my weapon/talents/ilv/stats and even playstyle then please let me know, thanks!
      Edit: I have respecced my weapon to now look like this: 
      I should be doing better now ^^ Appreciate the help 
    • By Hypertasty
      Hello all,
      Like many others on the forums, I'm in that weird space in gearing where drops have to be specifically screened based on Stat weights rather rather than item level. It seems we sins have been hit really hard by this distinction, leading to a genuine issue where deciding to take lower item level gear can impact our estimated invitation value to mythic+ groups. 
      The following is my current gears set, shitty legendary and all. My current goal is to level out my mastery a bit higher, as I made the foolish decision to value high crit gear without concern for mastery this last week, and have felt the effects.
      Check me out, and pass me some tips or love!
    • By Ludavyk
      Server: Zul'jin - Horde
      Raid Times: 7-10pm EST - T/W
      Celestial Being is recruiting to round out our mythic roster. The core of our team has Mythic experience including top 50 US experience. Mythic experience is preferred, along with current logs. We raid on a brief schedule and expect people prepared to progress.
      Current Needs:
      Priest - All Specs
      Shaman - Elemental/Enhancement
      Druid - Feral
      Paladin - Ret
      Exceptional players of all classes will be considered, feel free to discuss.
      Please contact for more information.
    • By Fastidious
      Greetings fellow Travelers!   The Dungeon Crawler Network (DCN) has spread its footprint back into the World of Warcraft with this fantastic expansion, Legion.  We appreciate the DNA of The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King present, and are overcome with passion to play the game at the level which we used to.   We are involved in a multitude of MMOs, JRPGs, ARPGs, and the like. If it involves grinding through dungeons to get gear, reputation, and slay internet dragons, we are involved. Our roots are in the Elder Scrolls, and then the Elder Scrolls Online. You may have heard some of our podcasts, "Tales of Tamriel", "Chocobo Raiders", "Tavern Talk", or the "Midnight Hour" on iTunes in which we the guild, discuss multiple topics to include game development, theory crafting, lore, end-game raiding or PvP content, and even interviews with game developers or other prominent community members. Our leadership facilitates positive in and out-of-game experiences, and everything they and we do is part and parcel to that. We appreciate the games the developers give us, and the guild is the symbol of our many appreciations of that. Our leadership is versed in end-game PvE and PvP content ranging from EQ, Planetside, Eve, ESO, FFXIV, and of course, World of Warcraft.   Our primary objectives at this time for the Wings of Fate are as follows:   -Community development. The <Wings of Fate> are not just a WoW guild, but a community of mature gamers that play games across the full spectrum of genres from MMOs to ARPGs. This is accomplished through the use of Discord, getting to know your team mates, and being an adult in every aspect of gameplay and personal conduct.   -Enjoyment of World of Warcraft and enhancing the player experience, without sacrificing performance. What this means is that while our top priority is to have a good time and cut up, we don't waste time on bosses or bang our heads against a wall if composition/performance isn't up to snuff - we decisively address these issues.   -Establishing additional Mythic+ groups capable of M 7+ (M+5 is about the starting point, but we can help get you there if you aren't already!)   -Finishing current heroic raid content and moving to Mythic raiding if natural guild population growth and performance are conducive, continued farming of M 5+, Karazhan, Trial of Valor, and then the Nighthold!   -Establishing the <Wings of Fate> PvP footprint and what it looks like. We have a guild PvP officer who is in the process of developing PvP events structured around what the guild members want, and other guild activities. At this time we participate primarily in casual PvP events but the intent is to do rated content once the PvP footprint is established.   Guild events are as follows:   -Mythic+ Dungeons daily during the evenings (Currently 7+)   -Raids are Friday and Saturday nights from 8:30pm-11:30pm EST - we often go a bit later in order to finish a raid clear or if we are close to completion on a progression fight   -PvP Nights are currently Thursdays, from 9pm EST - 11pm EST - additional nights will be implemented by our PvP officer once he ascertains from guild members what nights are best and what doesn't interfere with other guild events.   Now let's talk about what we're looking for and what we offer YOU. We are looking for community members who are here for more than just enjoying the World of Warcraft, but appreciate theory crafting, game discussion, upcoming developments, lore, and game mechanics. We are a community of gamers interested in a variety of games - Joining <Wings of Fate> is more than just joining a WoW guild, you're joining a family and established community.   What we offer you:   -A dedicated discord server that is constantly populated with members of the community, guild leadership, and everything in between. We talk upcoming games we're hyped about, raid mechanics, and everything already previously discussed. It's a fun place.   -Guild leadership that understands the importance of progression, and understands constraints/limitations. A prime reason for us establishing Mythic dungeon-only groups. We've identified while a lot of people will want to raid, just not everyone has the time to dedicate to it.   -An established and positive community. Many of us came to DCN for other games as WoW-WoD wasn't something many of us were interested in. Legion is changing that. We have many folks already participating in guild strategy development for upcoming content releases- and there's always people around on Discord getting involved with other games and discussions.   -Podcasts! As mentioned before we are involved in a multitude of other MMORPGs, and we participate in community building in a big way. It's only a matter of time before we dig deeper into what Legion will be offering us!   What we're looking for:   -Active players interested in end-game progression - but not bleeding edge. We are always pushing the football down the field, but if you're looking for a guild that is raiding three to five nights a week to defeat cutting-edge content, we aren't it. At least for now anyway.   -Players interested in the understanding and discussion of player/game mechanics. This one is huge. Know your class, and if you aren't quite there yet, don't be afraid to ask for help or guidance! DCN is populated with some incredibly knowledgeable MMORPG players and we can't facilitate progression without developing our knowledge of in-game mechanics.   -Positive, mature, and goal-oriented players. Progression can get annoying, and wiping forty or fifty times for one reason or another can really get to someone. It's a part of progression. Maturity is a must-have, we are an 18+ guild. No, that doesn't mean we can't sniff out a 30 year-old child either. Criticism can feel harsh, but we only do it to improve our guild performance as a whole. This is a two-way street.   Thanks for taking the time to read this post!   Feel free to contact me in-game @ Fastidious#1897 , and stop by the DCN Website @ to check out some of our Podcasts or get a better idea of what this organization is all about! -Steven "Fastidious"
    • By Stenbock
      I recently switched from DK Tank to Paladin Tank (Similar stat prios) and I was wondering how much haste should I aim for and is Versatility more important than Haste like AskMrRobot says? 
      I raid twice a week but I mainly do M+ Content and I seem to be stuck at M+7 so if you have any advice there I will gladly take it. 
      Here's a link to my Paladin.
      I am in my raid spec currently and I switch my lvl 100 talent to Last Defender when I do M+.
      Any help is appreciated. :)