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Guardian Druid Decisions HELP!

13 replies to this topic Started by SeanLake, Jan 21 2013 09:10 AM
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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:10 AM

#1
SeanLake
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Hello fellow Druids, I love my bear and have been struggling with how and what to set for my stat weights. I've read icy veins stating that hit and expertise should be at 7.5% before any other stats, however when I use something like askmrrobot(as seen from the link below), my exp and hit wind up being below that but it puts most into crit. I realize that crit helps to generate our rage immensely but shouldn't askmrrobot be placing into hit and exp first? Also will those stats be affected if I only do the optimization without placing the enchantments on them? If so that might explain the difference in my end stats. Please check my profile down there: http://www.askmrrobo...ers/draufgänger Also, what can I make the settings in something like reforge lite for stats so that I can plug those stats in? Thanks!

Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

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SeanLake
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If there is anything else that you all need from me please let me know. I genuinely want to reforge my bear to be the best that he can be :).

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:21 AM

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MadMonk
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Hello fellow Druids,

I love my bear and have been struggling with how and what to set for my stat weights. I've read icy veins stating that hit and expertise should be at 7.5% before any other stats, however when I use something like askmrrobot(as seen from the link below), my exp and hit wind up being below that but it puts most into crit. I realize that crit helps to generate our rage immensely but shouldn't askmrrobot be placing into hit and exp first?

Hi SeanLake

According to the Statistics and priority page you should go for the hit cap (7.5%) and then get as much crit rating as possible. It says that the expertise cap (15%) is quite high for the current gear and you would probably loose too much other useful stats in order to get it.
I would advise you to get 7.5% hit, get as much crit rating on your gear as possible (by getting gear which has crit rating on it). Then you can reforge all the haste and mastery into either:
  • Crit rating if the item doesn't already have crit (so only haste, mastery, dodge or parry)
  • expertise if you are hit capped and the item already has crit rating.

Also will those stats be affected if I only do the optimization without placing the enchantments on them? If so that might explain the difference in my end stats.

If you do not place the enchantments on the items your optimization will obviously be a little sub-par. If you don't have a lot of money then you can skip them, or try and get a cheaper enchant.

Please check my profile down there:


http://www.askmrrobo...ers/draufgänger

Also, what can I make the settings in something like reforge lite for stats so that I can plug those stats in?

Thanks!


I have never used reforge lite so you might want to ask someone else. You might try and copy the stat weights from askmrrobot and adjust the hit cap priority a bit so your reforges always go to the hit cap.

Hope it helps a bit, I'm no expert at tanking but this is some insight I can give you.
Healer for Life!

Monk healer MadMonk - Warcry - EU Auchindoun

My opinion does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the owners or writers of the icy-veins website/guides.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:27 AM

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SeanLake
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Hey MadMonk! Thanks for responding. I would copy and paste the stat weights but the problem is, the numbers are different. Plus when I do it on askmrrobot, my hit isn't raised to the 7.5% but crit is insanely high, which is cool but I'd like to get the hit to the cap. The other issue is the difference in the way the stat numbers are listed. Ask Mr. Robot is as follows: MH DPS 0, MH Speed 0, Stamina 1.5, Agility 1.4, Crit 1, Expertise .85, Physical Hit .85, Mastery .8, Dodge .7, Haste .6, Armor.5, Stren .053, pvp power 0, pvp resil 0.... Soft cap soft capped weight Hard Cap Crit Varies 1 1 Exper .06 .85 .06 Now that's great but reforge lit lists weights as such: dodge 220, parry 0, hit 160, crit 180, haste 120, exper 140, mastery 200. melee hit cap 2040, expertise hard 4080 This is why I'm a bit confused. Thanks! Sean

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:17 PM

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p770
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Try using this instead of reforge lite. http://www.curse.com...wow/reforgerade Click on the "optimise" button on Mr Robot and then click on " export" at the top, select reforge export and then select and copy (ctrl-c) the list. In game go to reforge guy and when you click on him the add on will open. Press ctrl-v and it will paste the reforge from Mr Robot into the window, click on reforge and your done

Edited by p770, 22 January 2013 - 12:17 PM.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

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Krazyito
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See, the wieghts from Ask Mr.robot and Reforgelite are just that. Weights. Think of it like, "Rankings" In both of these cases, the highest "Weight" has the biggest priority. If you stuck Mr. Robot's weights into reforge lite, or reforge lites weights into Mr. Robot, then they would both accept them and adjust accordingly. Although, this is a bad example, mainly because Mr. Robot takes into consideration primary stats as well as the secondary ones. Whereas Reforge Lite only does Secondary stats. If you put in Reforge lite's weights into Mr. Robot, it would probably rank a lot of stats (like dodge and mastery) over agility, which is not correct. Another way of looking at it is just using 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.... etc. The highest number is the most important stat. In my opinion, you should stick Mr. Robot's weights into reforge lite. Before you do this though, I would suggest you take Mr. Robots suggestions on gems and enchants and THEN AFTER that is done you should reforge. Reforging should always be done last because of the hit/exp gems mainly. (Also, set the exp cap to the soft cap in Reforge Lite, the hard cap is useful, but it requires too much loss of crit to be helpful) Or just do everything that Mr. Robot says. He is correct for the most part, even if it doesn't seem like it. Of course you can always tweak either setting to a more preferred liking

Edited by krazyito65, 22 January 2013 - 02:40 PM.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

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p770
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I do not want to start a flame war or say I know better than anyone else...however what is there that says Mr Robot is better than any other site out there. In any case you say to stick the weights from one into the other but fail to inform the OP of how you do this. I have tried to put the MR Robot weights into reforge lite and it is a pain to do and quite often does not come out right. Reforgerade is simple and takes the weights from the export function of Mr Robot and uses them "as is"...simples. It was also already mentioned that some people do not always have the gold to do ALL gems etc or the gear they are trying to reforge is of such low lvl that it would not be worth gemming/enchanting with high lvl stuff. At least reforging it will help them get better dps while they gain VPs or get that lucky drop where it will be worth the expense of gemming with higher cost gems etc

Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:30 PM

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Krazyito
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All right. I suppose I see your point in not doing everything because of "low gear" I understand that. My mindset is to optimize. There is no shame in using cheaper enchants on gear until you get gold/upgrades, I was not intending that. The OP did say

I genuinely want to reforge my bear to be the best that he can be Posted Image.

which to me, I understood as wanting to optimize the character as best as he can. He does not have to take my advice. I am personally very finicky with Ask Mr.Robot, I am always changing things to try to make him optimize the way I want it to turn out. Again, the OP does not have to take my advice, he can take half of it or only a 1/4th of it. It's all on the preference.

As for the stat weights, I'm not sure what you mean by it being a "pain". I can understand if you are talking about using Reforge lite weights into Mr. Robot. as I said in my post, it was a bad example since Mr. Robot takes into account primary AND secondary, while reforge lite takes into account ONLY secondary (again, as i mentioned in my earlier post).

To explain: you simply do just stick Mr. Robots weights into Reforge lite. You will be missing some stats in reforge lite, yes, but you can simply ignore those and just use the one Mr. Robot has. If Mr. robot does not have a stat and reforge lite does, then you set it to 0 in reforge lite. I don't quite understand what is difficult about this. It is simply a copy/paste.

I don't doubt that reforgerade is a good add-on. I used it myself a while back before reforge lite. But it doesn't have any functionality to it. It simply does what it is told to do (i.e. Mr Robot's reforge suggestions, as I said was one option to do). Reforge lite on the other hand does something different. It calculates. Which makes it completely different from reforgerade. The only reason I said to use Mr. Robots weights into Reforge lite was because of this basic functionality of calculation. It will get you as close as possible to the hit/exp caps that you want, where Mr. Robot sometimes leaves you under because of the way it optimizes.

You mention about not having enough gold to do some basic gemming/enchanting. I suppose you are right about this. I don't think about some others that may not have gold to make all these changes. I myself stay between the 5-15k range of gold, which for me is enough to make the gem/enchant changes for new gear or tweaks I want to try with my gear. and I feel like I'm poor with that. I wouldn't begin to know how someone with less would feel. But really, if you do have less and are struggling with gold on simple gems/enchants, Just do dailys. Do all of them, do some of them. They give you free gold. Leveling a character from 85-90 can probably net you around 5k gold. Questing in general can make you enough spending change for some basic gearing needs.

Lastly, after you do the reforge lite reforges, I encourage you to log out, and hit 'optimize' on Mr. Robot again. You should see that they will usually agree and if anything changes you can decide for yourself if you want to make that change.

Edit: I would also like to elaborate on why I say to do reforging last, by doing Mr. Robots gems/enchants and then reforge lite reforging. Reforge lite takes into account your CURRENT gems and enchants. It keeps everything the same and is only allowed to change the reforging. If you do the reforges first, then go take different advice (i.e. Mr. Robot's gems), when you go back to reforge they will change because of caps. This mainly happens when you add hit or exp gems or enchants. You go over or under the cap and then reforge lite has to re-account for the new changes.

Mr. Robot on the other hand does it all at once and takes into account everything, but in a different way.

It's all a preference and you are free to do it any way you wish, I'm just suggesting what I do and what I have experienced.

Edited by krazyito65, 22 January 2013 - 04:37 PM.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

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p770
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Please dont get me wrong I am no "Fan boy" of either add on. I just find it easier to cut/paste into Reforgerade. I can not see where you just cut/paste all the weights at one go into reforge lite and being a lazy bugger that stopped me using it. On your points about calculating I take it as read as I have no in depth knowledge of the mechanics of how it works but playing devils advocate here, and hoping you can explain, if Mr Robot calculates the weights it must at some point round up or down to the nearest 2 decimal places. Given that , and I may be wrong, if you then place them "adjusted" figures into reforge lite and it then does its calculations they will be out by some degree? However if you just cut and paste into Reforgerade there is no calculations and it therefore is correct as per MR Robot. I used reforge lite for ages and always logged out and back as you suggest to check my stats and quite often they were out and I would have to go back and adjust. Since switching to Reforgerade I have never had to go back and readjust them. In the end you can get it just perfect and along comes the next tier piece/item of gear and its out anyway. Depends how finicky you want t be lol. I, like I said, am no expert and this is just my thoughts and am always willing to learn from someone who knows better so please dont think I am after an argument . Just like to know the inside outs of things :)

Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:20 PM

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Krazyito
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I am stopping myself from going on a tangent again. I wrote something kind of long and saved it just incase, but after looking at it again I decided against it because I might have been going around your statements. I suppose this is what I have to say: "By using Reforgerade, you are conceding to Mr. Robot's reforges and are essentially saying 'Yes, I trust Mr. Robot and will use his suggestions', which is OK, and it is a very viable thing to do" The biggest difference between Mr. Robot and Reforge lite are caps. Hit, Exp, Haste are the biggest issues. Some people want to be sure they are at breakpoints or caps. Some are ok with being under. It is up to your personal preference. Mr. Robot = Caps are not important, but should be considered to get close and not sacrifice other stats to reach it Reforge lite = Reach my cap and then get everything else. Does this clarify things for you?

Edited by krazyito65, 22 January 2013 - 06:21 PM.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:24 PM

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p770
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Thank you. That is exactly what I was thinking but unsure of. There are those who say that Mr Robot is not correct in the way it does some things but I have never had a problem with it and consider it to be a very good place to go. I always use it to see whats what. Thank you again for your time :)

Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

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Krazyito
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I'm glad i took a step back and decided against what I was originally going to post. After reading what I was saying and then going back to your old post I was thinking, "Am I really answering this? or am I just going in circles?" I suppose it's good I went back and read it again to make sure I knew what you were asking. Its about the one thing I learned form my college writing courses.. lol Also, No problem. I'm sorry I DID go in a kind of circle in the second post. lol I'm glad I thought of a way to put it clearly.

Edited by krazyito65, 22 January 2013 - 06:28 PM.

Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:20 AM

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SeanLake
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Well then...Thank you very much for your explanations! I can totally understand the need to gem and all other enhancements BEFORE reforging...I did wind up just manually doing everything because even if I use let's say 2 as the highest weight, and then each lesser stat would be decimals of that, Hit 2, crit 1.95, exp 1.90, etc. The problem I was having with the various "methods" is that they dont have consistent results. If I knew why reforge lite was using 220 instead of 1 or 2, then I'd understand the "workings" like you like to do. I LOVE math, so I'm just trying to understand the inner workings of the program...if I did, then I could say I would get .05% of hit per .01 number that I assign or something along those lines, but why 220 and such? Just saying :). I do thank you though because you cleared up the question about placing enhancement on first! Sean

Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:38 AM

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Krazyito
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The numbers are arbitrary. They are meaningless other then the fact that they rank the stats. Its just the way the developer put them. Edit: I'm sorry: I think in both programs, the distance between the two numbers might also affect the ranking. Not entirely sure.

Edited by krazyito65, 23 January 2013 - 02:40 AM.

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