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aldonis

Redundant Guides

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I really appreciate the guides on this side, however, I dislike the many redundant guides.

E.g. there are five "Legendary Control Warrior" Decklists, 3 of them apparently good enough to reach legend.

I cannot believe that all decks on this side are tested thoroughly after the latest release (TGT currently) and are deemed still viable tier 1 legend decks.

I think the better solution would be to just add ONE list for each archetype and extend the "Card Swaps" section to show more alternatives for people that did not purchase the adventures or did not craft certain epics.

 

I would even go one step further and include a "Budget" section where the cheap variants are discussed, with an estimated reachable rank for the deck if built with this budget.

 

Rigth now, I don't really know which guides are viable decks, unless they contain TGT cards.

 

 

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I really appreciate the guides on this side, however, I dislike the many redundant guides.

E.g. there are five "Legendary Control Warrior" Decklists, 3 of them apparently good enough to reach legend.

I cannot believe that all decks on this side are tested thoroughly after the latest release (TGT currently) and are deemed still viable tier 1 legend decks.

I think the better solution would be to just add ONE list for each archetype and extend the "Card Swaps" section to show more alternatives for people that did not purchase the adventures or did not craft certain epics.

 

I would even go one step further and include a "Budget" section where the cheap variants are discussed, with an estimated reachable rank for the deck if built with this budget.

 

Rigth now, I don't really know which guides are viable decks, unless they contain TGT cards.

 

What I understood from Sottle's post, once the TGT decks are up, previous decks are reviewed and sometimes removed. I am not sure if I got it right, but some decks got removed (such as GvG Tempo Mage or GvG Aggro Hunter). I think the main reason older decks stay is that they have different favoured and unfavoured matchups, meaning the new decks aren't strictly better.

 

Now, the main problem with your suggestion is that the older decks are sometimes centered around some cards, while the newer decks are centered around some other cards. This would make the "Card Swaps" chapter really messy. 

 

There are decks for most classes that are budget versions of the bigger decks. These decks are named "Cheap" and "Low Budget (archetype name)"  (eg. Low Budget Tempo Mech). Cheaps decks are updated every expansion that brings any usable budget cards. Low Budget decks are not updated (afaik) and rather are uploaded. 

 

Icy-Veins is a site run by skilled players that take care of the previously posted content and make changes when needed. You don't need to worry about the quality of the posted decks as they are carefully tested and approved by Sottle, a proffessional HS player.

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Ok, so your first misconception is that calling something Legend worthy makes it a Tier 1 deck. At any one time, there are only 2-4 Tier 1 decks in the metagame. However, a player of my ability could probably hit Legend in the same timeframe using pretty much any well constructed deck, within reason.

 

I do agree with you that some of the class pages are getting cluttered, but at the same time we have to have different deck builds available for people who only have access to specific expansions, particularly with Adventures. If someone doesn't have BRM, they need to be able to look at an older version of the deck at a glance, seeing only a TGT version of the deck posted on the site would turn them away before they even clicked through and saw the expansion specific card swaps section.

 

We're looking for solutions to this problem over time, and as positiv mentioned above, decks have been removed since the launch of TGT, and more will follow. But I am a 1 man operation here, and I only have so much time to give, with most of that being given to the important business of testing decks and writing new content.

 

As for the Control Warrior builds specifically, the big step forward for Control Warrior was Deaths Bite, everything else is just swings and roundabouts. I'm comfortable that I could get Legend with any of the Control Warrior decks listed as such.

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The problem I see with this, especially for not so experienced Hearthstone players like myself, is how to distinguish between cases where the older version is inferior and only listed for players with a more limited card pool and cases where the newer version is merely a sidegrade. For example there is no TGT version of the handlock deck listed. My guess is that this is because the deck simply gained nothing from the TGT expansion but is still a viable choice.

 

Maybe one solution to this could be to not only have the rather lump-sum 'Legend' tag, but further differentiate, maybe even tag Tier 1 (and Tier 2?) decks as such?

 

Since I have no idea how quickly the Tier status of a deck changes (in MtG it was/is basically once per expansion once the dust has settled) it is difficult to gauge how much additional effort this would be.

 

P.S: Independet of this, what is the easiest way for a newer player to find out what the current Tier 1 decks are?

Edited by Kobal

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Hmm, we could add another column with Current? Y/N or something, that way we could indicate that Handlock and Patron Warrior are up to date despite not changing since the TGT expansion.

I do also agree in that i'm not a huge fan of the ranking system topping out at Legend, but unforunately Tier 1 decks change far more often than your experience with magic. It can easily fluctuate every week, or even more commonly. So that's not a great solution either

Many pro-team sites do Meta analysis that tell you their opinions on Tier 1 decks, I used to do one here myself, but I stopped since there were so many of them about.

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Hmm, we could add another column with Current? Y/N or something, that way we could indicate that Handlock and Patron Warrior are up to date despite not changing since the TGT expansion.

I do also agree in that i'm not a huge fan of the ranking system topping out at Legend, but unforunately Tier 1 decks change far more often than your experience with magic. It can easily fluctuate every week, or even more commonly. So that's not a great solution either

Many pro-team sites do Meta analysis that tell you their opinions on Tier 1 decks, I used to do one here myself, but I stopped since there were so many of them about.

 

One of the reasons I suggest to simplify the guide structure is BECAUSE you are a "one man operation" and it is clear that you cannot test all decks over and over again once the meta changes (and the benefit for the community is debatable anyways)

simplifying your effort to only check whether a deck is viable for each archetype would save you time!

 

Flagging the guides with something like "approved for current TGT metagame" is definitly a step in the right direction.

Still I don't think that there should be multiple decklists for the same archetype

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Still I don't think that there should be multiple decklists for the same archetypep

 

Then we're just going to clash on philosophy i'm afraid. I think it's pretty important that we do. But I definitely concede there are too many for some decks.

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Still I don't think that there should be multiple decklists for the same archetypep

 

Then we're just going to clash on philosophy i'm afraid. I think it's pretty important that we do. But I definitely concede there are too many for some decks.

 

 

I also think it is important to show alternatives for players who are missing some cards, I just think it would be better handled in the same guide. There is a Card Swaps section anyways, I just suggest to make that section more detailed by giving advice how to replace a batch of cards from each adventure instead of creating extra decklists for it. In this section you could then write something like >>"Death's Bite" is essential for this deck, so there is no suggested replacement if you are missing Naxx<<

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Like I mentioned before though, the problem is that a lot of people will immediately be turned away if they see that the only guide on the site features cards from all expansions, they wont even click through.

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Like I mentioned before though, the problem is that a lot of people will immediately be turned away if they see that the only guide on the site features cards from all expansions, they wont even click through.

I can attest to this.  If I see a guide that require the adventure quests or TGT, I don't even attempt to read it.

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Like I mentioned before though, the problem is that a lot of people will immediately be turned away if they see that the only guide on the site features cards from all expansions, they wont even click through.

I can attest to this.  If I see a guide that require the adventure quests or TGT, I don't even attempt to read it.

 

 

Well with the current structure this kind of makes sense to abstain from clicking through a guide requiring an adventure you don't own, as all guides have the expansion-flags in the overview.

 

With the structure I have in mind there would be one basic deck, one budget deck and one deck for each archetype for each  class. So you would have to click through the guides anyways.

I would much rather have to click through some guides to see that I don't have the required ressources to craft a certain deck than to play with a decklist that pretends to be good enough for legend when it was in fact created for a long bygone metagame. And the current system will get messier and messier the more expansions are released.

 

For a hybrid solution concerning the adventures you could use parantheses to indicate that a certain adventure is recommended but a budget alternative exists e.g. Naxx (BrM) would indicate that the archetype inherently requires Naxx and BrM is recommended but an alternativ exists (e.g. Emperor Thaurissan can be replaced). With such a modification you could still merge different decklists and update them at once.

 

For the regular expansions I really don't see how this could influence the decision of looking through a guide - sometimes all you have to craft is a common which requires merely 2x40=80 dust... and for legendaries there is still the card swaps section.

While an adventure costs 3500 gold a common is available at 100 gold at most and that is only if  you are unlucky enough to neither open a relevant card in your booster nor opening a second rare, epic, legendary or golden card (4 commons + 1 rare = 40 dust). To me, the TGT flag says "this decklist is up to date" and I guess there are better ways to show that.

 

So to conclude: I would really like if you could somehow indicate whether the decklist that don't contain TGT cards are also approved for the current metagame on the overview. And maybe you also like the idea to merge guides with the help of parantheses around the adventures.

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