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Lasher

Am I Missing Something

18 posts in this topic

First, Zagam, thanks a ton for your guides. They've been especially helpful since I came back to wow after a year or more away. That said, I still feel like I have to be missing something. Last night in MSV 25 I averaged about 65k dps, but Simcraft is showing me (with "good" skill and light movement) hitting 79k dps.

In a boss fight I open with Jade Serpent Pot about 3 seconds before pull, CoE, Demon Soul, Soulburn, Soul Swap, Haunt, Channel Malefic. I refresh all dots with SB:SS if possible right before pot/DS fall off. Through the fight I refresh Haunt whenever there's a shard available. I use Affdots and try to refresh dots on green/blue only, except Agony, which I clip possibly more than I should to avoid letting 10 stacks fall off. If there's an add coming soon or I need to move a lot, I'll refresh dots in the yellow. I have 4 piece t14 and use DS on cool down. I save doomguard for execute phase. During Execute phase I Channel Drain Soul until I have a shard (or two if dots are coming up on needing a refresh) then use haunt and SB:SS to refresh dots. I very often clip haunt in this phase.

Honestly, I don't know what I'm missing but I feel like it's gotta be something big to be 15k dps under optimal.

I'd appreciate any input you might have.

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Sounds like you have the concepts down yet still underperforming. Logs would be needed to find the issue.

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I recommend to use the doomguard at the pull, it doesn't do that much damage in the execute phase.

It benefits most during heroism or when all your cd's have popped ( in my case at the pull)

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Don't forget that your Sim results do not really take into account any losses due to movement and other small dps losses that add up over a 5-8 minute fight. For any spec if you sim for "elite" or "good" status that becomes your goal and in reality it shouldn't be your expected output on every fight outside of Patchwerk. If you sim at 80k you might see 40k on one boss and 140k on another and that's fine if that's what your spec is doing on that particular boss. I have been using Raidbots to see what others of my spec are doing on the exact same boss, and again make sure your not looking at the Top 100 parses but the All parses to see where you stand against others. But remember its all statistics.

Edited by Amicitia

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Can't recommend using the Doomguard anywhere specific unless you mention fights. For example:

Stone Guard (heroic) : use at the end when damage buff is out, not at the beginning

Feng (normal or heroic) : use on whatever phase you need a push on (not the beginning)

Gara'jal (normal or heroic) : use at 20% execute

Spirit Kings (normal or heroic) : use when your team uses Bloodlust

Elegon (normal or heroic) : use at the end

Will of the Emperors (normal or heroic) : use at the end

Vizier (normal or heroic) : use at the end with Bloodlust

Blade Lord (normal or heroic) : use at the beginning

Garalon (normal or heroic) : use with Bloodlust

Wind Lord (normal) use at the end; (heroic) use during Recklessness phase

Amber Shaper (normal or heroic) : around 35% (scaling debuff) basically use as you enter P3

Shek'zeer (normal or heroic) : save for execute

Protectors (normal or heroic) : save for execute

Tsu'long (normal or heroic) : at the pull

Lei'Shi (normal or heroic): save for execute phase

Sha of Fear (normal or heroic) : beginning and execute

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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/gorgonnash/Lasher/simple

Looks like this is you? Only 90 Warlock named Lasher with raid progress.

Off-handed, I'm going to *guess* you might be clipping your dots too often. Why? Because I'm looking at your possible empowered dot scenarios. Windsong is pretty lackluster vs Jade Spirit, though I understand considering it's a raid finder weapon. Ignoring the minimal jump for Windsong, the only ICD you have going for you is Lightweave. You're in serious need of some trinkets. Just seeing that your bar is green/blue isn't good enough. If you see 110 as your dot power, do you reapply? I wouldn't, unless the dot is about to drop off anyway. Keep casting MF. You'll generally lose dps taking the time reapplying for a mere 10%. I like to see 120% or better before I want cast a premature Pandemic dot.

MF MF MF

Speaking of which, for your opener, save yourself a precious Soul Shard and reapply dots manually the second time around. This is especially important once you get some more ICD's rolling and making the most out of Pandemic: CoE -> SB:SS -> Haunt -> MF, MF, MF -> UA -> Corruption -> Agony. This will normally undercut UA, slightly undercut Corruption, and slightly clip Agony (depending on where your Haste is at).

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Yep, that's me! And I know, my trinkets are a running joke in guild, RNG has not been friendly (but we have elegon tonight!)

About clipping, you're referring to refreshing before I get full benefit of pandemic right? I think the only time I really do that is during hero/DS, but I do frequently refresh at 110 if I'm getting full pandemic. I guess that gcd could be hurting me. We're going to start posting to world of logs again tonight, so hopefully I'll have a better idea of what bad habits I might have picked up.

What about after an intro burn? I frequently see 50s and 60s on affdots at that point. Should I let those fall off completely before I reapply? (Except agony of course)

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What about after an intro burn? I frequently see 50s and 60s on affdots at that point. Should I let those fall off completely before I reapply? (Except agony of course)

Not completely, you still want a max burn phase out of those powered-up DoTs, but you also want zero downtime. Essentially, refresh UA with <~2 secs left, refresh corruption as close to 0secs as you can, and Agony as close to 0 as well. In pratice, it will tend to work out that you can be MGing right up til each of those DoTs come off, and remember that each tick of MG also procs that powered DoT, so it's extremely beneficial to keep it running as long as you can.

If you're feeling cocky and have good latency, you can refresh Agony right as it displays '0' secs and it will still retain its 10-stack XD

Obviously this is all dependent on no interference from encounter mechanics (Ta'yak, Lei Shi, etc).

-A

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you have half as many haunts as you do shadow trances.

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you have half as many haunts as you do shadow trances.

That's something I'll keep an eye on, but it's most likely due to SB:SoC on Elegon right before Draw Power. I get a TON of shadow trances when corruption is rolling on all the sparks.

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You're right - Elegon is a tough encounter to judge off of. The most ideal one from MV is going to be Feng. Plenty going on in the fight, but it's still a "tank-n-spank" at the heart of it. Everything else has additional targets in one way or another with DoTs ending prematurely or not lasting full duration. Your Haunt uptime on Elegon himself should be between 50-60%. That's 25% more damage.

When I used the word "clip", it's exactly you guessed. Sorry for using my own terminology. It's when you have *over* Pandemic utilization time of a DoT, but cast it anyway because it's stronger. You're really going to want to curb your tendency to reapply DoTs at 110% no matter what the situation is. Here's a quote from Zagam concerning it:

A general rule of thumb is to follow his advice: Green = cast, Red = don't, Yellow = your DoT is about to fall off, Blue = wait. If Blue is 105, I'm not casting my DoT. I guess you have to get a feel for when is the best time. I would think about 120ish would be the level when I would ignore the blue color and override my previous DoT.

From: http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/593-51-affliction-tips-quirks/page__st__200#entry12494

Again, if you're DoT is about to fall off anyway, there's no harm in a reapply. Another reason I hold off is because of the number of ICD's I have. I don't want to reapply, and then have another ICD pop to reapply again. That's a sizable dps loss. I'd rather be casting Malefic Grasp a time or two or renewing Haunt - see if I get another spell power increase, and check the status of my Dark Soul CD to see if I have time to stack on top of everything.

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Im glad I am not the only person having this issue and having these feelings. It seems no matter what I do or what I change I am stuck at around 60k dps and then watch another lock with lesser gear hit near 89-90 sucks so I am 200% its me but what to do is the million dollar question. I have even tried demo hoping to get a better dps with a whole new otation but that was an even worse disaster. Im hoping in the next few days I can get into some thing to where I can post something from simlucast but have doe that yet.

Im with him though Zagam your awesome thank you for all you do for this small community, Im sure its time consuming as hell and this is at least 1 person who appreciates the hell outta you and those like you.

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Always glad to contribute. WoW is full of people who continue to troll me and tell me I'm bad. Hearing that my guides help you increase your performance reinforces my counter-point to them that they would be much better contributors to the gaming community if they'd put in an ounce of effort to show how I'm bad and how to fix it.

I'm looking forward to the 5.2 changes and working with all the new stuff!

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There are some things I am definitely looking forward too in the 5.2 patch but there is a lot I dread at the same time it looks as if we could take a pretty good hit possibly. Have you looked at any numbers from the PTR yet?

Not needing a glyph for the 4 shard is going to be nice and allows us another glyph spot. I am also excited to get the new version of dark intent. The changes to sacrifice worries me some because if your someone like me or one of the others that are having issues already 5% is going to be tough to swallow.

Edited by jbhuff

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I have a feeling I was around 65k dps in MSV Normal. Like you I suffered with trinkets early on, though not the extent of you.

The first boss of Siege of Niuzao drops one. He has I believe two trash pulls before him. Rather than queue up for him, I would try and find a tank or healer in your guild and go kill him once a day. He doesn't really require a full group, just either a tank to hold him, or a healer to heal people. Takes about 5 minutes. Though you do get bored of that Agil necklace.

The 5.1 dailies also give a trinket. It's commonly thought that upgrading gear with valor is better than buying gear. The exception to this is the 5.1 valor gear which is generally worth it (if upgrading blues).

This tier features two big dps checks for your group, and you've already got Elegon down. Be aware with Garalon it is very easy to get dis-heartened by seeing yourself low on dps, especially compared to the top logs on World of Logs. It's strange to say don't worry about dps on such a tight enrage timer, but assuming you're on the body there, check for actual damage on the body, rather than dps.

On World of Logs there are two Garalons, one that deals damage and one that takes damage. Find the one that takes damage and see where you are. Top will generally be 'None' (this is the damage caused by legs being killed). Aim to be second on that list, and remeber to add in your Doomguard (who will be classed as another damage dealer). Also remember with your Doomguard that if you haven't used it by the 6 minute mark, use it then.

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I recommend to use the doomguard at the pull, it doesn't do that much damage in the execute phase.

It benefits most during heroism or when all your cd's have popped ( in my case at the pull)

I agreee..

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There are some things I am definitely looking forward too in the 5.2 patch but there is a lot I dread at the same time it looks as if we could take a pretty good hit possibly. Have you looked at any numbers from the PTR yet?

Not needing a glyph for the 4 shard is going to be nice and allows us another glyph spot. I am also excited to get the new version of dark intent. The changes to sacrifice worries me some because if your someone like me or one of the others that are having issues already 5% is going to be tough to swallow.

There have been 0 DPS adjustments to Warlocks as of yet aside from the 5% nerf to Grim of Sacrifice. Apparently there is some confusion amongst Warlocks on what this exactly means. This is NOT a 5% DPS loss. Grimoire of Sacrifice buffs Haunt, Malefic Grasp, Drain Soul, and Fel Fire damage by 50%. If played correctly, all of these abilities should amount to about 15-18% of your total DPS. For argument's sake, let's just assume that it totals 20% of your damage. Taking a 5% hit on 20% of your overall damage is a 1% overall DPS loss. This is the general calculation in the community at the moment.

However, there exists the worry that Blizzard has not explained their words correctly. With the Tier 15 set bonus, they said that the damage of Malefic Grasp and Drain Soul would be buffed by some % but then later iterated that would include the periodic DoTs (Agony, Corr, UA) damage that MG and DS cause. IF, and it's a big IF, the periodic DoTs (Agony, Corr, UA) that proc from MG and DS are nerfed 5%, then we're looking at a 4.5% DPS loss. That would sting a bit more, but it will hit those who are playing at a higher level harder than those at a lower level just due to the nature of percentages. If I do 125k DPS to something, a 1% DPS loss would take me down to 123.75k. A 4.5% loss would be 119.37k. We're not talking about being nerfed to the ground, even if the worse situation arises.

I have a feeling I was around 65k dps in MSV Normal. Like you I suffered with trinkets early on, though not the extent of you.

The first boss of Siege of Niuzao drops one. He has I believe two trash pulls before him. Rather than queue up for him, I would try and find a tank or healer in your guild and go kill him once a day. He doesn't really require a full group, just either a tank to hold him, or a healer to heal people. Takes about 5 minutes. Though you do get bored of that Agil necklace.

The 5.1 dailies also give a trinket. It's commonly thought that upgrading gear with valor is better than buying gear. The exception to this is the 5.1 valor gear which is generally worth it (if upgrading blues).

This tier features two big dps checks for your group, and you've already got Elegon down. Be aware with Garalon it is very easy to get dis-heartened by seeing yourself low on dps, especially compared to the top logs on World of Logs. It's strange to say don't worry about dps on such a tight enrage timer, but assuming you're on the body there, check for actual damage on the body, rather than dps.

On World of Logs there are two Garalons, one that deals damage and one that takes damage. Find the one that takes damage and see where you are. Top will generally be 'None' (this is the damage caused by legs being killed). Aim to be second on that list, and remeber to add in your Doomguard (who will be classed as another damage dealer). Also remember with your Doomguard that if you haven't used it by the 6 minute mark, use it then.

Affliction Warlocks should have a difficult time topping meters here if they are playing in a competent group. Melee should be bouncing to legs and doing increased damage while ranged do the best they can while also performing the fight's mechanics in kiting Pheramones. The reason Affliction won't top anything here is that your DoTs will only hit for double damage per the debuff if you remain in the circle. The best you can do is DPS a leg while having DoTs rolling on the boss. This is sub-optimal for your overall group strategy, however. Doomguard should be used on Garalon when he is sub 20% because this is a DPS race type boss. There's also currently an issue with the Doomguard to continue attacking a new target if his original target dies or becomes untargettable. For example, if you used him to DPS a leg and the leg died, he would not start casting Doom Bolt on Garalon. He will stand there beside you. I've reported this issue numerous times. Until it's fixed, try to use the Doomguard when:

1) you'll get a full 60 seconds' use out of him

2) boss is at or close to below 20% so that Doom Bolt hits 20% harder

3) there is only one target he will be focused on for his summoned duration

I agreee..

The Doomguard does NOT benefit from Bloodlust/Timewarp/Heroism. He casts 17 Doom Bolts regardless of Haste buffs or procs. This is a common misconception, so please remember that the Doomguard scales with your stats dynamically, so using him at the beginning is nice, but it doesn't compensate that much for the 20% buff at the end. There is no medium to use him to make your numbers go up dramatically. He should be used at critical points of fights to lessen the time spent during those phases. For example, using him at the pull on Elegon is a horrible idea considering he would hit 120% harder during the execute burn. Using him at the pull on Vizier would also be a waste because P1 is much easier to handle than the cluserfest that P4 is. You'd want to use your Doomguard to shorten P4. In contrast, on Blade Lord, it would be advisable to use him at the beginning to lessen the time spent in P1 since P2 is a joke. Use common sense and your group's fight strategy when determining when to use the Doomguard. Don't mindlessly pop him at the beginning or end of fights thinking you'll see any noticable DPS gain.

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