Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Naztharos

Would like the opinion of rogues much better than me.

Recommended Posts

Now as i have run into this debate with many rogues that have asked me for advice on how to improve there dps from many different specs i have not been able to give a good answer. i have been playing since vanilla but am only casual so i don't have all the answers. 

 

*On a side note. all of these assumptions are for people who play solo or are just in casual social guild who don't raid or do mythic dungeons. Yes these people are far more common that a lot of people seem to believe. 

 

My typical first step is to look over there gear. and most people have the same issue. no tier, no trinkets, only baneful / lfr gear. and most of them have been sub spec. 

 

so first question id like you all to help me with. 

 

Is it even worth playing sub until you have your normal 4 set and soul cap?

 

I have been telling people no simply because i have never seen it done EVER. however im only casual so i dont know 100% myself. i play under the assumption that combat and assassination are going to give far better results simply because its a much simpler rotation for people. is my assumption correct here or am i a noob myself?

 

Next part is what i just mentioned. i have been suggesting people to swap specs and work towards the gear they need to start preforming better with the better single target specs. such as normal raid content, not heroic.  

 

I usually suggest going combat to start since its the easier spec to learn in my opinion and working on clearing normal for the basic gear. starting on some trinkets and tier. 

 

Question here is that really the easiest way to go about it? some people HATE when others try to tell them how to play. But if you ask for the simplest way would this not be the best way to go? Is there an even simpler way to go about it that i'm completely missing?

 

And here is the question about the hated PVP gear. personally i have no idea why people hate this gear so much on some classes. my hunter, rogue, warlock are all full pvp gear except trinkets. and they all do exceptional numbers on normal and they are all right on the base minimum requirement for heroic (which i believe is around 45k min.) 

 

So i have been telling people to Try and pvp for the upgrades they need. and as long as they follow the stat priorities listed here on the site that it should carry them easily through normal. assuming they were lower than full empowered baneful gear of course.

Do you think that for at least rogues is a easy way to gear up for normal raids? and get most of the stats you need?

 

And finally the mythic dungeons. people seem to think that they are the same as heroic and will run in there with not even 650 ilvl and literally do nothing, I have been tying to explain to people that you should at least have mostly upgraded baneful gear (not the item upgrade that you buy with valor, just the Rng upgrade chance when you identify the gear / use the token on it.) and know how to play your basic spec before entering these.

 

I get laughed at alot for this for some reason but everyone seems to think that there is a fleet of nice helpful random people perfectly willing to carry people through them. in truth they mostly piss people off. if someone tried to waist my time like that id leave instantly unless i knew what i was going into before hand. 

 

Question here is am i right to assume that people should at least have id say roughly 685 gear and know how to play the spec? i know i expect alot but i assume anyone who is trying to do this actually WANTS to make progress. not just shuffle around and stagnate. 

 

Also im sure sure all of these are answered in other topics but i don't have a lot of time to go search through forums to find all the answer's. Any and all input would be nice here i am not looking for people to tell me i'm right. i actually want to know if i'm wrong. the idea of this post is to kinda help guide people who want to do endgame but don't know the way.

 

*Last note. Sorry if this is all jumbled and out of order. i will fix it up if i get the Help im looking for. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me see if I can get this straight - it's a hell of a wallpost lol.

 

My 2 cents:

 

1. Yes and no. Yes because even without gear - not doing exceptional numbers - you still training with the spec. Sub is a really complicated spec, and if you wanna play it in a future ahead with some decent gear, you should start playing every now and then. As for no, this game is a party-based game. Playing with something that you aren't optimized for can be frustrating for you and others. Nobody likes to be hindered (as you stated later in your text) - pick your moments accordingly.

 

2. Perhaps Asn is an easier spec than Combat. Combat without haste gear is rather boring since it takes a good while for you to hit stuff AND got some passive buff meddling to get off the most of it. As for the hate feeling I believe they'll hate if they're being piloted. If they're suggested something and you raise points to why your suggestion is attractive (and let them do what they want), you won't be hated - at least if the person you're dealing with are reasonable enough to listen to someone more experienced and not just splurt some crap just to discredit you - which is... fairly common.

 

3. IMHO it's a historic issue. PvP gear had Res on it, which is an useless stat in PvE (and would occupy a 2nd stat that would be more useful). Nowadays, arguing over this is bullshit. Yes, won't be powerful as PvE tiers, but hell - getting insta 700 and ready to slap normal bosses... yeah, I'll take that. For some specs isn't that good because the itemization won't help, but for others it just work wonders.

 

4. Again, yes and no. People can be casual and think they're somewhat ready for progression. It's normal, be ready for that.

 

That's it. I'm half asleep, so... take it with a grain of salt. smile.png

Edited by lipsinch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you really want to practice it, wait until you get the 4 set since that changes the way you play fairly significantly. However, Assassination will still be its equal in damage until you get Soul Cap

 

If a Rogue is struggling with their spec, they should be playing Sin and Combat. Sin for fights with 1-2 targets, and Combat for every other fight. Unfortunately I can't recommend anything else; Rogues need to be able to play both of these to be effective members of a raid.

 

PvP gear is just fine for raiding - it's 700 (or 710) ilevel, and is an easy way to get numbers. However, the PvP Trinkets and Set Bonuses are generally very very bad compared to their PvE counterparts, so you should always prefer PvE gear for those slots (plus the legendary Ring) if possible. 

 

For Normal Hellfire progression, you can get away with a group full of 670-680 people, especially for the first few bosses. Other than that, you can still be clearing Heroic BRF for more loot and good set bonuses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Friedbones
      I recently started working toward my cape on my Balance Druid.  Last night while doing my vision beginning quest line to get my cloak, my partner noticed small frogs leaping into battle during our fights.  I searched my gear and looked at my setup, skills, essences, etc., to see if I could find anything saying "small frogs leap into battle" or something similar, but was unable to find anything to explain this oddity.
      Does anyone have any idea where these frogs are coming from?  Is it a hidden part of my skills or based upon race being used?  Any help to explain this oddity would be appreciated.
      Thanks in advance. 
    • By Pikay
      Hey there fellow Rogues
      Long time lurker, first time poster here...

      We've been told by our raid leaders to improve ourselves in terms of playstyle, rotation, CD usage etc.

      Since I’m not that good with log analysis and log comparison, I thought that, since there are a couple of high-end rogues active on here, maybe you guys could help me to improve.

      You can find all my logs on my personal warcraftlogs page: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...athrezim/pikay

      I already saw that I often keep TB off CD for too long – working on that one. I’m sure there are a couple more changes I should (could) make to push my DPS.

      Thanks in advance for your help!

      Greetings, Pikay
    • By Casdon
      [US] Stormreaver — Skunkworks
      Tuesdays & Thursdays: 7:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M. (pst) || 9-1 (cst) || 10-2 (est)
       
      Progression
      10/11M Antorus
      9/9M ToS
      10/10M Nighthold
      3/3M Trial of Valor
      7/7M Emerald Nightmare
       
      Website
      skunkworksguild.com
       
      About Us
      Skunkworks is a guild for players who can not or do not want to commit to the time-intensive raid schedules of traditional "hardcore" guilds.
      However, we still maintain a high caliber player environment and make an efficient use of our raiding time.
      We raid Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7:00 - 11:00 PST, just 8 hours a week and never more.
       
      We are very protective of our guild environment and selective in recruitment. We are looking for solid players mechanically as well as intellectually.
      We all get paid to deal with idiots, why should we pay to spend our leisure time with them as well?
       
      Skunkworks has been around for multiple expansions and has historically always been at the top of the 2-night raiding guild scene.
       
      Past Raiding Achievements
       
      #US 199 Mythic KJ #US 186 Mythic Archimonde #131 US Heroic Garrosh #68 US Heroic Ra-den #77 US Heroic Lei Shen #86 US Heroic Sha of Fear #106 US Heroic Madness of Deathwing #99 US Heroic Ragnaros #147 US Sinestra #91 US Heroic The Twilight Destroyer (Halion) #71 US Heroic Fall of the Lich King #247 US Tribute to Insanity #160 US Alone in the Darkness Current Guild Needs
      Amazing Range DPS ---Exceptional Candidates always considered regardless of recruiting needs.
       
      How to Apply
      Apply with Google Forms
      https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeL-LW1-7rRK28Z3Nswg4xD3-jjQWrIsCh77rYOdxKwY0oPPQ/viewform.
      All applications are kept private.
      Please include at least the following.
          Prominent links to relevant armory pages ]A guild history with reasons for departure
          The reason(s) you have chosen to apply to this guild
          Warcraft Logs
          UI screenshots or fraps/Stream footage
       
      Contact Information
      Shadaka (GM)
      Real ID:Shadak#1881
       
      Aerivore (Recruitment Officers)
      Real ID:  Aerivore#1581
       
      Sovm
      Real ID: Sov#1192
    • By Leeq
      Heya!
      So I’ve read the Icy Veins Sin Rogue PvP Guide that suggests Cheapshot > Garrote > Mutilate > Rupture as an opener. It works very well, but I’m wondering if I should use another opening rotation with MotMA (gives 100% crit chance for 5 sec after exiting stealth mode)? I know that legendaries aren’t active in arenas, but I was thinking in wpvp/duels. 
      Cheers :)
    • By Runiix
      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q667/Runiix13/Slide1_zpsh7syy8m1.jpg

      Hello DKs. (I dunno why it does this annoying thing with the background)
      I have been playing around with different WeakAuras for a few weeks now and i finally found something that works really well for me personally in PvP.
      Both BGs and arena.

      I have a small screen to work with, so i would try to fit as much info in as i could, on as little space as possible, without having any info there that i didnt need.

      I also found out... With all the pressure and fast thinking happening in pvp, you dont have time to look all over your screen to see important CDs or hp points or whatever.
      So again, i've found a way to track everything i need to know, without moving my eyes to the edges of the screen.

      I am by no means any expert on WA and my designs are pretty basic, for some they might look abit cluttered, but everything that i link here, is quite easy to change.
      Deletes single groups u dont want, or change colours/sounds anyway u like it.

      I really hope you people enjoy what i have made and i hope some of you can use it for yourself.
      It's the first time i ever do post stuff like this... Now, i'll explain what the different auras do:
      ---------------------------------

      https://pastebin.com/h0sVPDgC
      Asphyxiate stun:
      Pretty basic. It will show a stun icon, with a small timer underneath.
      If you dont like the timer, u can delete the group and u can even change the texture to a progress texture, then the bar would deplete as the stun timer went on.
      I do prefer the timer underneath cause of diminishing returns, it often doesnt stun the full 5 sec.

      https://pastebin.com/ZqX24uCV
      CC and Disruption cooldowns:
      Mind freeze (interrupt) and Death grip on the same height
      Asphyxiate and Gnaw (ghoul stun) on the same height.
      These icon will only if the given ability is on cooldown. It will not if it is ready
      Often times there are so many icons on your screen counting down, so i made this to quickly find out what CC is ready.

      https://pastebin.com/Z1tQtqXY
      Apocalypse - Dark Transformation - Soul Reaper cooldowns:
      I put these in the same group, cause they are what i use basically everytime they are of CD (if im in range of my target ofc)
      They contribute to the very important sustained damage of unholy and it was important for me to track them close to each other.
      They will both bounce in and yellow text will appear when an ability is ready - Something i made so i never miss or forget one of these as i am focusing my target.

      https://pastebin.com/kvehS4qi
      Festering wound tracker:
      Obviously one of the most important things to keep track of for unholy.
      I've tried with different icons and progress bars, but fact is that, even though they look prettier and more neath, they aren't as practical.
      So i made a simple, yet very effective tracker for it.

      A flashing purple wheel appears if you are in combat and no wound is active on your target.
      It bounces and turns red if there are 1-2 stack active, cause this is where you should apply more debuff before detonating.
      Standard purple colour will appear with 3-5 stacks, cause with this amount you are free to detonate your wounds and not having to reapply new ones or worring about there being to many. (Because you are obvioulsy free to Festering strike if you are at like 3 stacks)
      It will flash purple/white when there are 6-8 stacks, cause here you need to detanote and not reapply anymore festering strikes, atleast until it reaches below six.

      https://pastebin.com/deeYe8T2
      Offensive burst/go for kill/swap target cooldowns:
      I didnt put "Blighted rune weapon" in with the other sustain damage CDs because i feel even though it is good for sustained damage, it does not need to be used of cd.
      It works very well if you want to surprise swap to a different targets.
      There are stacks for BRW and timer for your gargoyle - Again, a very simple but very effective design, that tells you everything you need to know. These will also disappear when they are ready.

      https://pastebin.com/6NsWPd0R
      Scourge of worlds proc:
      Very, very important debuff to track. Changes your priority alot of times in your rotation for the next 5-6 secs.
      Even though it could work with the normal icon and the design is cool, it is again. Not practical for pvp, cause u need ONLY to see useful info.
      So i made it very simple with a standard timer, so u never miss the debuff and it doesnt clutter your screen.

      https://pastebin.com/BUkZmUMp
      Sudden doom proc:
      These can ofcourse be changed to any texture you might like better.
      1 bar appears with 1 proc - 2 bars appears with 2 procs.
      Again for practical use - Minimize the amount of numbers and bars on your screen with this.

      https://pastebin.com/WBTRpnEZ
      Virulent plague:
      I sometimes forget to reapply this in stressed situations. I made this aura to make sure it never happens.
      A white flashing icon shows when it is not active, a simple sound plays when it runs out and a white bar shows the progress.

      Really hope you guys enjoy it and will give me some feedback!
      I love playing around with WeakAuras and just as i have had alot of help from others designs i really hope someone can use mine.
×
×
  • Create New...