Chess?

[psylocybin 0]

Honest question.

 

Why does it take most players the entire allotted time to finish a turn? Hearthstone has only slightly more depth than UNO. If you can do simple single digit addition and subtraction, why on earth would it take you more than 3 seconds to decide a move and 3 more to make it?

[Chacal 23]

Spot the Troll.

I win!!!!!!         

[positiv2 950]

I guess you haven't been past rank 15. Just take a look at this video. Good luck getting to past rank 20. 

Chacal! Gotta go faster next time I guess.

[psylocybin 0]

I'm not sure what the insults have to do with my question. People will sit there with 4 level 7 and up cards on turn 2 and nothing else.. stare at the screen until the timer starts burning, then use their hero power. Is this intentional? 

 

The game is 100 percent luck. You either get those cards you need when you need them or you dont. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by psylocybin

[positiv2 950]

 

 

only slightly more depth than UNO

 

 

simple single digit addition and subtraction

 

 

why on earth would it take you more than 3 seconds to decide a move

Do you even read what you write? This is what's wrong with your post.

 

Not 100%, still a lot, but definitely not 100%.

[Chacal 23]

Not answering your question? OK, I'll take it at face value and give it a go.

 

There are a few that habitually do like - for instance - Lifecoach. He is known to think it's a good idea to maximise his available time to think through his next few turns. Lifecoach is consistently one of the top Hearthstone players (I'll come back to that). Based on my observation most players (during play and watching streams), most of the time do not use anything like all of their allotted time. It seems very unlikely that you have genuinely observed this. So I have a question; why would you ask a question based on this premise?

 

While I'm answering questions I will have a go at my own. You go on to assert that Hearthstone has 'only slightly more depth than UNO'. I read this as a slight on UNO and - by implication - Hearthstone. UNO has more depth than you give it credit for. Played well some strategic thinking is called for. Bearing in mind Hearthstone boardstates, card interactions and synergies and what you know you have in your deck the state of the game at any one time is very complex indeed. If you're still unaware of how complex it is then you're still clearly not a very proficient player.

 

So when you say 'simple single digit' arithmetic you are either especially unobservant and slow or the purpose of this post is not to try and get an answer to your question but to try and get a rise out of people. Since you can spell and punctuate correctly I'm giving you the benefit and assuming it's the latter.

 

'4 level 7 cards'; you're really letting yourself down here. If you don't understand why then you don't know enough about the game to really have an opinion yet.

 

'100 percent luck'; provably not the case. If it were then the state of the ladders would be effectively randomised each season. Truth is that the top players (like Lifecoach) keep being the top players season after season. Professional tournament (yes, that's for real money) after professional tournament. Hearthstone has an element of luck in the same way that poker does (less than poker though - 'why' would take a long time to explain and I don't actually believe you're listening anyway). In the end though, neither Hearthstone nor poker is a game of luck. In both games those who overestimate the part that luck plays tend to be those that lost more than they won.

 

You seem not to like the game and I think that - rather than look for a genuine answer to your question - you're just trying to bait people with intentionally stupid observations. Rather than insult you what I'm saying is that I don't believe you're as slow as you pretend to be.

[KingMe 289]

I'm not sure what the insults have to do with my question. People will sit there with 4 level 7 and up cards on turn 2 and nothing else.. stare at the screen until the timer starts burning, then use their hero power. Is this intentional? 

 

The game is 100 percent luck. You either get those cards you need when you need them or you dont. 

What are you playing that has four 7 and up cards on turn 2 that is still able to use their hero power?  As for your comment about it being 100% luck; You are wrong. Yes RNG has it's role in the game but there is a lot more depth than you are obviously seeing. And lastly, did you honestly expect to come to a Hearthstone Forum and say it has little more depth than a child's game and not expect someone be a little salty with their reply? I hope you can give the game a different look and enjoy it as we do. But hey it's not for everyone. Have a good one. 

[SithLordOfSnark 78]

There is tons more skill in Hearthstone then in Uno. OP, you need to step up your game.

 

Good players take their time figuring out their plays because there is such thing as the wrong play, which pro players STILL make.

[positiv2 950]

What are you playing that has four 7 and up cards on turn 2 that is still able to use their hero power?

It's a Wisp! (it was a riddle, right?)

[psylocybin 0]

The above was an example. However, it did bring to light the point I wanted to make :) Fact is, anyone better than 19 or so, is using a standard deck that someone else created.. up to say level 5 or so, where players have a bit of an understanding of combos and what not and are experimenting. (I AM PERFECTLY AWARE THAT THIS IS NOT AN ALL ENCOMPASSING FACT, IT IS A BLANKET STATEMENT, A RULE OF THUMB, MEANT TO INDICATE THAT A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF...ETC). So, is it fair to say the vast majority of hearthstone players are between level 5 and level 19? If so, is it fair to say the vast majority of those players are using pre constructed decks that follow, for the most part, the current meta? If so, is it fair to say that based on your luck, and if you pulled the cards you wanted, that on every single turn, based on the cards in your hand, you have 1, at most 2, plays that make any sense whatsoever. Is it also fair to say that in order to differentiate between those two plays, you do nothing but simple math. Which of the plays will give you the most value. If this is true, is it fair to say that on the majority of turns, taking anything more than 3 to 4 seconds to decide the play, and 3 to 4 seconds to lay down the play is unneeded?

 

If the above is true, then my question stands. Why do the vast majority of hearthstone players, (not taking into account professional players, who, of course based on the fact that there is more at stake than a win or loss. I'm talking above average joe on the ladder) sit..and wait. until the timer starts counting down before beginning their play. 

[psylocybin 0]

K so.. beyond my personal opinions that hearthstone is gaming for when you are bored of playing actual games and want to not think for a while... this illustrates my point..

[Valkyr 55]

You are playing against a druid. That alone means that even at turn three he could have tons of options if he is holding an innervate. He can: play a 3 mana minion. Hero power to kill your minion. Trade into your minion with boar, hero power and use boar to trade into healing totem.  Innervate to play a 5 mana minion. If so, which 5 mana minion if he has multiple. OR it could be Innervate, innervate to play a 7 mana minion.  He is essentially weighing all these options and planning out 3 turns ahead. Thinking about what cards you can be holding and what your future moves can be...

 

Or he went to the bathroom or is watching TV while playing the game.

[psylocybin 0]

You are playing against a druid. That alone means that even at turn three he could have tons of options if he is holding an innervate. He can: play a 3 mana minion. Hero power to kill your minion. Trade into your minion with boar, hero power and use boar to trade into healing totem.  Innervate to play a 5 mana minion. If so, which 5 mana minion if he has multiple. OR it could be Innervate, innervate to play a 7 mana minion.  He is essentially weighing all these options and planning out 3 turns ahead. Thinking about what cards you can be holding and what your future moves can be...

 

Or he went to the bathroom or is watching TV while playing the game.

 

I went  in game.. this is the 2nd move of the game. Every move after was the same story. The next game as well. that was a paladin. I am currently in game with a mage...same story. Every game, every turn. Regardless, he had what.. 15 seconds BEFORE that counter started? There is no logical explanation for why every single player every single turn including turns that he held no cards for sits and stares at the screen. The only illogical conclusion that i can reach, and the response to a simple question on this forums has verified is that hearthstone toxicity rivals that of Blizzard's other creations . 

 

Edit. apparently i don't know how to quote properly. lol. sorry :(

Edited January 29, 2016 by psylocybin

[VaraTreledees 138]

The above was an example. However, it did bring to light the point I wanted to make Fact is, anyone better than 19 or so, is using a standard deck that someone else created.. up to say level 5 or so, where players have a bit of an understanding of combos and what not and are experimenting. (I AM PERFECTLY AWARE THAT THIS IS NOT AN ALL ENCOMPASSING FACT, IT IS A BLANKET STATEMENT, A RULE OF THUMB, MEANT TO INDICATE THAT A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF...ETC). So, is it fair to say the vast majority of hearthstone players are between level 5 and level 19? If so, is it fair to say the vast majority of those players are using pre constructed decks that follow, for the most part, the current meta? If so, is it fair to say that based on your luck, and if you pulled the cards you wanted, that on every single turn, based on the cards in your hand, you have 1, at most 2, plays that make any sense whatsoever. Is it also fair to say that in order to differentiate between those two plays, you do nothing but simple math. Which of the plays will give you the most value. If this is true, is it fair to say that on the majority of turns, taking anything more than 3 to 4 seconds to decide the play, and 3 to 4 seconds to lay down the play is unneeded?

 

If the above is true, then my question stands. Why do the vast majority of hearthstone players, (not taking into account professional players, who, of course based on the fact that there is more at stake than a win or loss. I'm talking above average joe on the ladder) sit..and wait. until the timer starts counting down before beginning their play. 

The problem is,the highest value play isn't always the correct one.  Lets say it is the top of turn four and your playing some sort of mage.  The enemy paladin just mustered.  You have a mana wurm at 2 health, say it traded into a recruit last turn, and a mad scientist on the field.  Lets say you have a shredder, antonidas, sorcerers apprentice, a frost bolt and a magic missile.  Their are several ways you can play this, and many ways you can trade.  The highest value play is the shredder by far, but if he is playing a mid range paladin type, he could coin out a quarter master.  So you could toss out the shredder, then trade into two recruits, but that would leave your mana wurm and scientist dead next turn for sure, from the weapon and guy.  You could just push face damage, since you have antonidas and just race him. Or you could drop the apprentice and a magic missile, and your hero power.  Then lets say the rng gods don't favor you and you only kill one recruit, and hero power another one.  Then do you trade the scientist or the wurm?  Chances are, he might have a weak minion to proc your mirror entity, which is probably what you will get with the scientist, so do you want to save it for a later turn and hope to screw with his challenger turn if he is playing secret paladin (since all you have seen is a muster you can't really tell if it is secret or mid range)?  Or you could just not trade and leave a single one up, worst case scenario is he has a keeper or blessing of kings.  But you also have to consider baiting out that keeper, since quite a few paladin decks only contain one, and you have antonidas in your hand, and paladins don't generally have a lot of answers to those type of threats without a board, plus you should have your apprentice next turn, which means you can develop the shredder and frost bolt his keeper or BoK's minion.  Further still, you could just trade trade, apprentice and hero power, saving the missile for antonidas and an extra fireball.  My point being, even in a relatively simple scenario, there are many things to consider before you make a play, assuming you want to make the best play.  Blizzard gives you 75 seconds to make a turn, and if you are serious about getting better, don't squander it.

 

That being said, at the lower ranks on the ladder, a lot of people are probably either semi afk while playing hearthstone, like playing it on their phones in between homework problems or the like, or just aren't that familiar with their cards and are considering what they actually want to do, instead of trying to play around what your opponent might do. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by VaraTreledees

[psylocybin 0]

I'm certain that much of what you've said is true for say.. level 5 and above. However, the failure to recognize that people do it intentionally at the higher levels to ...what was it again... troll? is ...delusional. My original question should have been, I suppose, why do people troll this way at the beginner levels. From beginner through level 5 the game is NOTHING more than who spent the most money on cards, and given that is equal, who draws that broken legendary card, for which the other has not yet pulled a counter for first. hearthstone is PURE pay to win.

[Chacal 23]

 

My original question should have been, I suppose, why do people troll this way at the beginner levels. From beginner through level 5 the game is NOTHING more than who spent the most money on cards, and given that is equal, who draws that broken legendary card, for which the other has not yet pulled a counter for first. hearthstone is PURE pay to win.

 

You're not going to get any better at the game until you get your head out.

[psylocybin 0]

 

 

My original question should have been, I suppose, why do people troll this way at the beginner levels. From beginner through level 5 the game is NOTHING more than who spent the most money on cards, and given that is equal, who draws that broken legendary card, for which the other has not yet pulled a counter for first. hearthstone is PURE pay to win.

 

You're not going to get any better at the game until you get your head ou

Why are you still telling yourself that hearthstone isn't on a level with clash of clans as far as actual gaming goes ;(

[positiv2 950]

Right, because this, this or this. I have a reason to believe this is just trolling and I am very close to locking the thread. 

[Voyaging 0]

I believe Hearthstone is far more computationally complex than chess, as far as absolute optimization.

 

Also, much like poker, Hearthstone is 0% luck long-term. All probability tend towards their expected value over enough events, meaning long-term win rate is determined 100% by skill.

[positiv2 950]

Actually, Hearthstone isn't a zero-sum game and therefore luck is not 0% in the long term. Also, winrate is, at least in my case, partially determined by stability of internet connection

[psylocybin 0]

Right, because this, this or this. I have a reason to believe this is just trolling and I am very close to locking the thread

Agree with me and all of my opinions or I'll lock the thread!!

 

lol.

 

You have NO reason to believe anything remotely close to that other than your own arrogance. So, since you lack the intelligence to actually continue the discussion, I'll simply say this.

 

Fact: If you take a beginner to the game. Someone with say. 6 months. Then take a legend rank with 2 years experience. Give them the same deck. The novice will win 1 out of 2 times given a pool of say 20 games. 

 

Fact: Given that the above is true, arguing that hearthstone is anything but pure unadulterated luck of the draw is delusional. 

[Ithilrandir 23]

Seriously, why are people argueing about things like this

People rope for all sorts of reasons.  Its not like you can do anything about it. If you're not happy, go do some other stuff while he ropes you, like I do. If you're really angry/salty, just rope the opponent back.

[batanete 28]

 

Right, because this, this or this. I have a reason to believe this is just trolling and I am very close to locking the thread

Agree with me and all of my opinions or I'll lock the thread!!

 

lol.

 

You have NO reason to believe anything remotely close to that other than your own arrogance. So, since you lack the intelligence to actually continue the discussion, I'll simply say this.

 

Fact: If you take a beginner to the game. Someone with say. 6 months. Then take a legend rank with 2 years experience. Give them the same deck. The novice will win 1 out of 2 times given a pool of say 20 games. 

 

Fact: Given that the above is true, arguing that hearthstone is anything but pure unadulterated luck of the draw is delusional. 

 

Why are you even taking this guy seriously?

[positiv2 950]

 

Right, because this, this or this. I have a reason to believe this is just trolling and I am very close to locking the thread

Agree with me and all of my opinions or I'll lock the thread!!

 

lol.

 

You have NO reason to believe anything remotely close to that other than your own arrogance. So, since you lack the intelligence to actually continue the discussion, I'll simply say this.

 

Fact: If you take a beginner to the game. Someone with say. 6 months. Then take a legend rank with 2 years experience. Give them the same deck. The novice will win 1 out of 2 times given a pool of say 20 games. 

 

Fact: Given that the above is true, arguing that hearthstone is anything but pure unadulterated luck of the draw is delusional. 

 

I am going to repeat what you said: "slightly more depth than UNO" "why on earth would it take you more than 3 seconds to decide a move and 3 more to make it" and so on. This makes no sense whatsoever and I really feel like you're just trolling. And I am not the one thinking that.

Wait, you said "People will sit there with 4 level 7 and up cards on turn 2 and nothing else.. stare at the screen until the timer starts burning, then use their hero power." and I am the less intelligent one? Firstly, there are no levels when it comes to cards. Also, there are only two ways to reach that scenario: 1) Opponent is first and plays a Wisp/Dummy or 2) He coins a 2-drop, but doesn't attack with it on turn 2 and therefore it seems you have not even reached rank 24. 

 

Your first so-called fact: You want to tell me that you will have 50% winrate against a legendary player? Although I have never been to legend, there is nothing to say but "1v1 me in rust m8".

Your second so-called fact: No, your first fact is not really a fact as you have no way to support it. This makes your whole fact 2 wrong. 

 

If anyone tells me to lock the thread, I will gladly do it. I won't do it unless others agree that this thread is to be locked. 

[SithLordOfSnark 78]

I have faced off against people who make legend every season before they make legend in a season, and I can hardly ever beat them. Yes, there is SOME luck to this game, but it takes skill too.

 

If you tell me for a second skill wasn't needed to become a pro in MtG, I'd laugh you out of your state, because dude, these games take skill.