Zagam

5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

1211 posts in this topic

Awesome guide!

I have been trying to practice demo more often to use in 5.2. One thing I was not sure about was the priority during Bloodlust/Heroism. On some bosses in T14, my guild will use Heroism at the start of the fight. I also use Dark Soul at the start. I read that Touch of Chaos does not benefit from haste. Does this mean ToC spam during hero/lust does not really benefit from the buff at all? Should I change my casting priority in these cases where I have both Dark Soul and hero/lust running?

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Haste decreases the global cooldown, so you'll be using ToC faster...just has no direct benefit on the spell itself. Consider it the similar affect that melee classes gain from Bloodlust with their increased auto attack speed.

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I gave that Zagam a like. Zagams love likes.

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Hey Zagam,

I've got a question about HoG/CW usage. I know that during the fight you want to use HoG for its DF generation and considerable damage. I was wondering if Chaos Wave should be considered at all during an execute? Some execute phases can last awhile to where you'd get a chance to pop out of meta to use up a HoG charge or two, but would it worth it to use CW to use up a charge if the boss is going to die relatively soon? I realize that 120 DF is a big chunk to be dropping on a CW, but it hits like a truck for an instant cast.

Thanks

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This maybe somewhat of an unorthodox question, but since you all seem like a bunch of nice people I figured I'd ask it anyhow:

Is it fun, demo?

How does it compare to destro and affli, not damagewise, but regarding player-enjoyment.

I realize that this is a subjective question, but your suggestive oppinions are exactly what I'm asking to hear.

I only ever played a warlock till lvl 60 or so, and not at all since MoP, but the class seem really interesting with three very diverse and enjoyable specs.

So please; let me hear your thoughts :)

p.s. Also, Zagam: Wow! The effort you have put into these forums is awe-inspiring! You truely are a man of the people around here!

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I gave that Zagam a like. Zagams love likes.

Always.

Hey Zagam,

I've got a question about HoG/CW usage. I know that during the fight you want to use HoG for its DF generation and considerable damage. I was wondering if Chaos Wave should be considered at all during an execute? Some execute phases can last awhile to where you'd get a chance to pop out of meta to use up a HoG charge or two, but would it worth it to use CW to use up a charge if the boss is going to die relatively soon? I realize that 120 DF is a big chunk to be dropping on a CW, but it hits like a truck for an instant cast.

Thanks

Don't use Chaos Wave unless you need burst on something about to die and the fight is almost over. It's too much of a waste of Demonic Fury. If you're in an execute phase, swap out of Meta, drop two Hand of Guldans to generate extra fury (plus the Shadowflame effect) and pop back into Meta and continue your execute. Chaos Wave is as bad for Demo as Fel Flame is for Affliction. If you read my Aff guides, you know how much I loathe Fel Flame. Same principle here.

This maybe somewhat of an unorthodox question, but since you all seem like a bunch of nice people I figured I'd ask it anyhow:

Is it fun, demo?

How does it compare to destro and affli, not damagewise, but regarding player-enjoyment.

I realize that this is a subjective question, but your suggestive oppinions are exactly what I'm asking to hear.

I only ever played a warlock till lvl 60 or so, and not at all since MoP, but the class seem really interesting with three very diverse and enjoyable specs.

So please; let me hear your thoughts Posted Image

p.s. Also, Zagam: Wow! The effort you have put into these forums is awe-inspiring! You truely are a man of the people around here!

Demo is a blast! At least for me. Some other Warlocks complain about all the things you have to manage, but that's what I find fun about it. Destruction is fun when you get to cleave things and send two Chaos Bolts out at the same time. It's also fun to completely obliterate the meters on numerous add type like fights like Elegon, Heroic Tsulong, etc. Affliction is really boring to me. It was fun to learn, but once you master it, it's just refresh DoTs, use Haunt opportunistically, and use MG or DS depending on target health. Demo is so much more intricate. I know simulations give Demo and Destro a bad touch, but I've been able to perform very similarly on fights as different specs. I did 195k to H Elegon last night as Destruction. I did 175k to Heroic Protectors as Demonology. It's all about just knowing the insides and outsides of your spec and how you can master each fight. If you've never had a Warlock over 60, I recommend you level Demo. If you love it, you'll likely like raiding as Demonology. If you don't and you want a Spriest feel, Affliction has it. If you want a nuke type class, Destruction is what's up. Different strokes for different folks.

Anything I can do to help is worth it in the long run. Glad to be of assistance.

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I came from playing a hunter since TBC (MM) as i hated BM to now im rolling a Demo lock and i love him.I would totally recommend leveling Demo doing 5mans in which case Demo owns with its burst dmg and aoe capabliities ,and with 5.2 coming out raiding with him.I also love to go and do some extreme soloing in older content from cata down to vanilla where getting my 2pc t5 which allows me to keep my demon healed for 15% of the dmg i do makes Demo a great soloing spec moe so than either Aff or Destro imo that is.Like Zagam said though different stroke for different folks ,but try all 3 specs see what you like and feel comfortable playing as that will lend itself to a more enjoyable playing experience .

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I came from playing a hunter since TBC (MM) as i hated BM to now im rolling a Demo lock and i love him.I would totally recommend leveling Demo doing 5mans in which case Demo owns with its burst dmg and aoe capabliities ,and with 5.2 coming out raiding with him.I also love to go and do some extreme soloing in older content from cata down to vanilla where getting my 2pc t5 which allows me to keep my demon healed for 15% of the dmg i do makes Demo a great soloing spec moe so than either Aff or Destro imo that is.Like Zagam said though different stroke for different folks ,but try all 3 specs see what you like and feel comfortable playing as that will lend itself to a more enjoyable playing experience .

Actually demo is almost the worst spec for soloing right now.

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Actually demo is almost the worst spec for soloing right now.

Um, no it is not. Not sure what you're doing, but you're not doing it right. Glyph of Health Funnel, Grim of Service: Felguard, and an instant res for your Felguard if he dies every 2 minutes...you can solo anything as Demo easier than Destruction and Affliction. Metamorphosis also gives you a crap ton of survival. Please try not to diss something you haven't tried or gotten good at.

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How often should one pop Imp Swarm after the initial pull?

Edit:: And GoService

Edited by Mummer

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Zagam, i read on MMO Champion if u press HOG and go on META when lands your HOG will be buffed like a chaos wave and will not spend fury and The thread guy said it's important do it every 2nd HOG and shit, what u think about it?

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JV, I posted that in my guide that it was important to pop into Meta on the 2nd HoG.

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Just registered to say thanks for all the info, I haven't played demonology since early Cata, so this helped ALOT, especially since i'll have to learn how to properly play demo by tuesday.

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Should I be saving Grimoire: Felguard for when Dark Soul is ready or using it off CD? The CD doesn't align with anything. Also, if corruption is about to fall off should I pop into Meta just to refresh it (even if I don't have any procs and Doom doesn't need to be refreshed?).

edit: im retarded.

Edited by Chobani

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I dont know why ppl asking questions that are clearly answered in his Post. Imp swarm is an dps loss so dont use it @Mummer, and the thing with GoS is that with tier 15 the cd with GoS and DS is the Same @chobani .read the full thing.

The only thing i would ask for is geming. i know that the stat weights are almost the same but with bis gear etc there sure is some stat that is slightly better that others?

Edited by Azazoth

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I haven't calculated stat weights yet. That will be my Sunday gig...I'm quite drunk at the moment and did BGs all night...more to come soon. Also, yes...please read the entire guide and don't just ask questions without reading. I've answered nearly every one of those questions in my guide.

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This guide has some wrong information to say the least...

Imp swarm a dps loss?? it's definately not a dps loss and you should be using it with DS, even if you have 4pc.

Demo's secondary stats are definately not close. You pretty much said it yourself, haste is useless because ToC not affected by haste. You mentioned HoG weaving and that alone pushes mastery ahead of crit by quiet a bit because of the extra damage from shadowflame. Simcraft numbers/weights are way off because of HoG weaving.

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Um, no it is not. Not sure what you're doing, but you're not doing it right. Glyph of Health Funnel, Grim of Service: Felguard, and an instant res for your Felguard if he dies every 2 minutes...you can solo anything as Demo easier than Destruction and Affliction. Metamorphosis also gives you a crap ton of survival. Please try not to diss something you haven't tried or gotten good at.

Demo's personal survival is the worst, destro can amber tap, affliction does more damage than demo while using drain life.Also destro can soul link-amber tap and affliction can sb:hf to heal pet. Glyph of health funnel isn't enough to keep pet alive on hard hitting bosses and if pet dies you can res him instantly as demo but others specs can do that too.

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Another question regarding the openers...

Researching them, I feel as if a lot of people have different openers.

Is it essentially pop Imp Swarm, Corr, HoG, ShadowBolt/SoulFire, then pop Dark soul? I dunno... Lmao.

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This guide has some wrong information to say the least...

Imp swarm a dps loss?? it's definately not a dps loss and you should be using it with DS, even if you have 4pc.

Demo's secondary stats are definately not close. You pretty much said it yourself, haste is useless because ToC not affected by haste. You mentioned HoG weaving and that alone pushes mastery ahead of crit by quiet a bit because of the extra damage from shadowflame. Simcraft numbers/weights are way off because of HoG weaving.

Rather than saying 'everything is wrong,' why don't you provide some information to back your claim? I use simulation programs and personal testing to prove that Imp Swarm is a sustained DPS loss. You're making a claim that you should delay Dark Soul with its 4pc bonus until Imp Swarm is up? I'd love to see your logs and how well you rank on fights.

Also, your focus on secondary stats is worthless. They never have any meaningful production because swinging one stat for another can maybe change your DPS by 1,000. I would guess that you are not in one of the top 10 guilds in the world, so finding that extra 1k DPS isn't going to bring you anything useful.

Haste is not entirely useful or wasteful because your Metamorphosis uptime will be about 35-40%. The other 60% of the time, Haste will shorten the cast time of Shadowbolt and Soulfire increasing your DF generation. An understanding of how everything works together (the big picture) rather than small, individual pieces doesn't really offer anything.

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Another question regarding the openers...

Researching them, I feel as if a lot of people have different openers.

Is it essentially pop Imp Swarm, Corr, HoG, ShadowBolt/SoulFire, then pop Dark soul? I dunno... Lmao.

Should not be using a Shadowbolt/Soulfire before Dark Soul and Meta. Imp Swarm is a personal choice.

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Demo's personal survival is the worst, destro can amber tap, affliction does more damage than demo while using drain life.Also destro can soul link-amber tap and affliction can sb:hf to heal pet. Glyph of health funnel isn't enough to keep pet alive on hard hitting bosses and if pet dies you can res him instantly as demo but others specs can do that too.

It really sounds like you haven't played Demo to a high level when trying to solo. I find it far easier and I highly doubt I'm terrible at Destruction or Affliction. If you want to test your theory, go try the Brawlers Guild as Destro or Aff then try it as Demo using a Voidlord to tank for you. It will be so different that you'll change the whistle of your tune.

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Demo's personal survival is the worst, destro can amber tap, affliction does more damage than demo while using drain life.Also destro can soul link-amber tap and affliction can sb:hf to heal pet. Glyph of health funnel isn't enough to keep pet alive on hard hitting bosses and if pet dies you can res him instantly as demo but others specs can do that too.

I'm not sure if you're playing demo right, but in my experience (2 warlocks, 1 at 90), demo has the best personal survival out of all of the specs, especially for multiple targets. Demo form alone makes you pretty unstoppable, not to mention you have health funnel/pet tanking everything. You really can't compete with that.

Edited by Pattymayo

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