T15 Warlock Style - Normal & Heroic

[Zagam 1,982]

You don't want to use Haunt on anything you're not spending the full duration applying Malefic Grasp.

[Zagam 1,982]

Heroic Jin'rokh strategy and log updated.

[Omaric 246]

Heroic Jin'rokh strategy and log updated.

So you save your 1st Dark Soul for the pool?

Edited March 21, 2013 by Omaric

[Rrasis 13]

Not sure if this is assumed but I've found using a macro on Horridon made havocs super easy

Focus Horridon at the beginning of the fight and then use

/target focus

/cast Havoc

/targetlasttarget

doesn't waste time having to click on the boss cast havoc and then find the mob that's almost dead again etc

basically same macro you use on wind lord as a spear thrower

this can be used on a multitude of bosses, I use it on Lei Shen too

Edited March 21, 2013 by Rrasis

[Zagam 1,982]

Not sure if this is assumed but I've found using a macro on Horridon made havocs super easy

Focus Horridon at the beginning of the fight and then use

/targetfocus

/cast Havoc

/targetlasttarget

doesn't waste time having to click on the boss cast havoc and then find the mob that's almost dead again etc

basically same macro you use on wind lord as a spear thrower

this can be used on a multitude of bosses, I use it on Lei Shen too

This is a mandatory macro. I should include it. I use it on everything including PvP. Thanks!

[Zagam 1,982]

So you save your 1st Dark Soul for the pool?

Depends. I was using it right off the bat for initial burst. It was coming off CD about 8-9 seconds before we had to move for Thunderstorm, but this will only be true so long as I have the 80 sec CD on Dark Soul instead of the 120 sec CD I'll have as soon as my coins/rolls/bids go through for me and I collect some tier pieces. So what I was doing with 4pc T14 was using it off the bat and using it again while in a puddle before 1st Thunderstorm. Likely safer to hold off on it until in a puddle, though.

[Omaric 246]

Not sure if this is assumed but I've found using a macro on Horridon made havocs super easy

Focus Horridon at the beginning of the fight and then use

/targetfocus

/cast Havoc

/targetlasttarget

doesn't waste time having to click on the boss cast havoc and then find the mob that's almost dead again etc

basically same macro you use on wind lord as a spear thrower

this can be used on a multitude of bosses, I use it on Lei Shen too

I can't afford to throw all my extra Havoc's at Horridon. The end burn isn't difficult and the extra damage you do to Horridon with your Havoc isn't going to compare to the amount of damage the entire raid is throwing on him at that time. I find it far more useful to adapt it to whatever high health add is out or coming out. Two venom priests just spawned? I know what I'm doing with Havoc.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Omaric

[Rrasis 13]

I agree, I don't see it as a you have to constantly use the macro but if there is no extra add that you're needing to apply it to it's nice having a constant mob to easily put it on I keep my macro and Havoc both easily accessible in case I want to put havoc on a different target.

as far as Jin'rokh I save it for the pools as well, I've noticed it lines up a lot better with all the pools and my dps increased significantly. was only doing about 125k when using it in the beginning compared to 145k when saving it for pools. still haven't downed heroic Jin'rokh yet but we were consistently getting to the third pool. seems like the fight is more about survivability than it is DPS, I think if all the DPS lived we could down him in the Third pool. seemed like we would lose 2-3 first storm, another 5+ the second storm and wipe somewhere between the third pool and the third storm but he'd be down to 35%. Think we're on track if we can get our survival up.

Any thoughts on whether Affliction would provide higher survivability than destruction? I feel as though my soul leech provides more mitigation when I'm affliction over destruction, as well as it gives me a larger Sacrifice.

[Vile 9]

I was thinking of going Mannoroth's Fury as Destruction for the Primordius fight. The idea would be to keep RoF up at all times for crazy ember regeneration and just keep throwing Chaos Bolts at him. Has anyone tried this? Would I gain a significant enough increase in ember regen to give up casting on the move?

[Zagam 1,982]

I agree, I don't see it as a you have to constantly use the macro but if there is no extra add that you're needing to apply it to it's nice having a constant mob to easily put it on I keep my macro and Havoc both easily accessible in case I want to put havoc on a different target.

as far as Jin'rokh I save it for the pools as well, I've noticed it lines up a lot better with all the pools and my dps increased significantly. was only doing about 125k when using it in the beginning compared to 145k when saving it for pools. still haven't downed heroic Jin'rokh yet but we were consistently getting to the third pool. seems like the fight is more about survivability than it is DPS, I think if all the DPS lived we could down him in the Third pool. seemed like we would lose 2-3 first storm, another 5+ the second storm and wipe somewhere between the third pool and the third storm but he'd be down to 35%. Think we're on track if we can get our survival up.

Any thoughts on whether Affliction would provide higher survivability than destruction? I feel as though my soul leech provides more mitigation when I'm affliction over destruction, as well as it gives me a larger Sacrifice.

People surviving = dead boss. It's that simple. It can be frustrating to watch teammates die to easily avoidable mechanics or instantly wipe the raid to an easily avoidable mechanic. Hang in there. You really don't need to switch specs for survivability. Both specs have plenty of survival options. The only reason I would take Affliction here is if you're more comfortable with it. Since I've gone heavy into Haste and Crit, I choose to not play Affliction at the sake of my sanity and reforging. Remember that Soul Leech procs off of Chaos Bolts. No way Affliction will stack that absorb faster than a Dark Soul + puddle enhanced CB.

I was thinking of going Mannoroth's Fury as Destruction for the Primordius fight. The idea would be to keep RoF up at all times for crazy ember regeneration and just keep throwing Chaos Bolts at him. Has anyone tried this? Would I gain a significant enough increase in ember regen to give up casting on the move?

The other Warlock in my group opted for the Mannoroth's Fury + Rain of Fire spam and performed very well. Both of us were assigned to adds full time, so while he focused on melting lots of them, I worked on getting as many Havoc'd Chaos Bolts out. Mannoroth's Fury + Rain of Fire does perform slightly better.

Do NOT ever DPS Primordius without being fully mutated.

[mediocregatsby 18]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but last night a guildie warlock suggested using archimonde's vengeance on Megeara. It ended up doing 330k damage over 577 seconds, which accounts for 0.5% of my total damage. This is almost comparable to my undead racial which did 0.6% of my total damage. Unfortunately since a lot of damage seems to be technically coming from nowhere (heads in the back, shit on the ground), this is probably less than it should really do, BUT there's not a lot of movement on this fight so that 0.5% feels like a straight up bonus over having KJ's cunning.

Also finally switched from affliction to destruction for Tortos and ranked in top 25 without much effort. I use a mouseover havoc macro, which lets me easily unload 3 shadowburns on Tortos everytime bats come up.

[Zagam 1,982]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but last night a guildie warlock suggested using archimonde's vengeance on Megeara. It ended up doing 330k damage over 577 seconds, which accounts for 0.5% of my total damage. This is almost comparable to my undead racial which did 0.6% of my total damage. Unfortunately since a lot of damage seems to be technically coming from nowhere (heads in the back, shit on the ground), this is probably less than it should really do, BUT there's not a lot of movement on this fight so that 0.5% feels like a straight up bonus over having KJ's cunning.

Also finally switched from affliction to destruction for Tortos and ranked in top 25 without much effort. I use a mouseover havoc macro, which lets me easily unload 3 shadowburns on Tortos everytime bats come up.

Using Archimonde's Vengenace is almost always a loss over other Tier 6 talents. It's nice to quantify it by saying it adds 330k damage, but I can EASILY see this coming from an Incinerate or two while moving out of fire, poison, or ice patches instead of using the inferior Fel Flame. It's hard to quantify Kil'Jaeden's Cunning, but you can visualize the difference. Being able to cast and move is EXTREMELY valuable.

For your Havoc comment, it is extremely useful to time Havoc with 3 Shadowburns instead of 1 Chaos Bolt. The cure-all I've found is having a focus macro like this:

/target Focus

/cast Havoc

/targetlasttarget

When the bats get to about 22-23%, I use this macro then burn 3 Shadowburns nicely. This is also incredibly useful on Council, Megaera (difficult with changing heads, but easy with a mouse-over Focus macro), Durumu (Crimson adds, set Durumu as Focus), Primordius (set Prim as focus while DPSing adds), Dark Animus, Twins, and Lei Shen. Just remember to /focus your primary target before the fight starts and you're in business! Thanks for your comments.

[Scaran 0]

I like the havoc macro quite a bit.

Sometimes, though, I've been having a bit of difficulty with the /targetlasttarget command...it can be spotty occasionally.

Personally, I've had more luck with this macro:

/cast [@mouseover,harm, exists] Havoc; [@focus, exists] Havoc

This will do the same functionality of the Focus macro previously mentioned. Set your focus, and as long as you don't have your cursor over a harmful enemy unit frame or unit it'll cast havoc on the focus. But it gives a tad more flexibilty here too. On some fights, it's nice to choose who you'd like to havoc without having to reset your focus (think council of elders in ToT). There, you can simply mouseover the boss frame and use the macro and apply havoc to your mouseover target without switching off your currently targetted unit.

Also, thanks for the great guide Zagam...this place is quickly replacing EJ for me as a go-to lock info spot.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Scaran

[keefbeef 1]

I like macros... maybe too much... I like to add as much functionality to them as is useful. This one can set your focus and cast it with a single click. use a modifier if you are changing the focus to something else. Good for use in chain CC's as well, just replace Havoc with Banish/Fear.

#showtooltip Havoc

/clearfocus [mod]

/focus [@focus,noexists][@focus,dead]

/use [@focus,harm][] Havoc

/y Like a BOSS!!!

[Wolland 1]

Dark Animus: This is what I've been doing this past week on this boss, I play Destro with G. of Supremacy.

(DESTRO) Put your Voidlord to stay put and have him taunt and tank the little robot add assigned to you, this way you are free to go DPS the little robots that activate the mid size robots. DPS the little robots as usual, Havoc a secondary little robot while you Shadowburn the next-to-die little robot (or Havoc one of the activated mid size robots if no other little one is available). When Animus is out and your Voidlord comes free from tanking, send your pet to attack Animus. DPS Animus as usual, keep Havoc up on the mid size robots and rain of fire them for more embers (they are usually tanked all 3 together).

Misc Notes:

-At times in this fight, I found myself with nothing to DPS other than the mid size robots, so yeah, I just stood there, Havoc'ed one mid size robot and DPS'ed the other one. Also I throw sometimes a few immolates around little robots with +70% HP. The little robots aren't brought fast enough to be able to have a constant go at them, so be creative and entertain yourself

The Voidlord won't even need to be healed, and he will take the little add to down about ~60% HP. Put the Voidlord's taunts on manual cast or he will taunt the boss later in the fight and he will get crushed.

-As prevention, I use Sac Pact when I'm about to get swapped with another player.

TL;DR: (DESTRO) Make your Voidlord tank your little robot add so you can go DPS. Keep Havoc up on additional adds, and Shadowburn the little robots.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Wolland

[Omaric 246]

^^^

I did Dark Animus for the first time last night and stomped everyone on the meters....... until I realized that DPS doesn't really matter on this fight until the big nasty robot is up. It's pretty much a waiting game (depending on your strat) until tanks get the small robots near the big ones. I was DPS'ing the massive golems almost the entire time; wondering why everyone's DPS was poo in comparison.

This fight is really just about tank execution.

Now Primordius on the other hand.... looooooove that fight. Pray for 5x mastery buffs and go to town spamming RoF (for embers) and whipping out non-stop Chaos Bolts/Havoc'd Shadowburns.

[Allkindsofdots 0]

Ok first, i have to say this thread is AMAZING. So much great advice from other Locks out there. Much appreciated.

The question I would like to put to you guys is this:

I am rolling destro, and my guild is currently progressing on Horridon (ugh). What are gonna be my best glyph options for this fight? And which Grim should I be using? It seems to me that my pet really isnt doing that much damage, and maybe I should use grimsac to pick up the missing pet damage and maybe more? As far as the rest of the strat for the fight, I got it down pat. I am always the last to die, due to the rest of the group messing up. One week it is the healers, the next it is the tanks....ugh KILL IT PEOPLE! DON'T STAND IN SH!T!

Sorry!

Frustrated Destro Warlock..... :)

[Omaric 246]

^^^

It depends what you need help on the most. I find that sticking an observer on Horridon the entire time is fantastic damage, especially as his debuffs start to grow. If your raid is struggling with adds, then you may be better off using GoSac for increased burst damage on the adds. You can make some magic happen with the ember generation RoF provides along with Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn spam.

[Allkindsofdots 0]

^^^

It depends what you need help on the most. I find that sticking an observer on Horridon the entire time is fantastic damage, especially as his debuffs start to grow. If your raid is struggling with adds, then you may be better off using GoSac for increased burst damage on the adds. You can make some magic happen with the ember generation RoF provides along with Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn spam.

I think what will help the raid the most will be more damage on the adds. Since the farthest we have gotten is to the end of the 3rd door phase and ALMOST getting the 4th door open. I dont know if it is a healing problem, or a people just taking too much damage (standing in shit, or something like that) thing.

But if I can melt adds quicker, I know that will help.

So GrSac then?

What are my best options for glyphs?

Thanks for the reply as well.

[Omaric 246]

Yeah try it out! I'm not on heroic progression yet, so I don't really need to worry about add pressure with our current raid DPS. Parking my observer on Horridon hasn't been an issue.

Just remember it's a little different playstyle. Your Chaos Bolts will have a DoT attached to them, so if you're spamming them back to back you'll lose out on a little DPS. Havoc/Shadowburn becomes even more key to pushing out the numbers on the adds.

As far as glyphs, your standard healthstone/siphon life + anything but Dark Soul, will be just fine. You might benefit from the conflagrate glyph if people are getting beat on by an add that just spawned. The instant slow could *possibly* save your raid a headache if they're paying attention.

It's also really easy to want to use Havoc on Horridon at door 3 because he's taking so much more damage, but the focus needs to be on the adds. Havoc a big frost lord as the baby frost trolls near lower health and get ready to Shadowburn them all for full embers. I can usually get the 3 shadowburns off and have a Chaos Bolt in the air before the medium HP troll dies, but honestly, gaming it like that isn't really necessary with all the embers you're building up from RoF schpam.

P.S. Use Shadowfury as often as you can. The stuns really help at door 3 when the adds don't give a shit about aggro.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Omaric

[Zagam 1,982]

The way I've approached Heroic Horridon (same concept as normal, just harder) is to always focus on the big add. You'll want Rain of Fire running constantly anytime it's going to hit more than 1 add. Use Havoc ALMOST on CD. By focusing on the major add (Wastewalker, Venom Priest, Frost Lord, Shaman), you guarantee their HP pool being large. When these adds get to 20%, use the following macro:

/tar Horridon

/cast Havoc

/targetlasttarget

Then proceed to hit Shadowburn 3 times. Delay this effect instead of using Havoc on CD for Chaos Bolt the best you can. If you're low on Embers at any point, make sure you have enemy health bars rolling around. If you see them below 20%, target them and Shadowburn. It's like getting a free Ember. Your Ember generation should be outrageously high if you keep Rain of Fire running.

[Allkindsofdots 0]

The way I've approached Heroic Horridon (same concept as normal, just harder) is to always focus on the big add. You'll want Rain of Fire running constantly anytime it's going to hit more than 1 add. Use Havoc ALMOST on CD. By focusing on the major add (Wastewalker, Venom Priest, Frost Lord, Shaman), you guarantee their HP pool being large. When these adds get to 20%, use the following macro:

/tar Horridon

/cast Havoc

/targetlasttarget

Then proceed to hit Shadowburn 3 times. Delay this effect instead of using Havoc on CD for Chaos Bolt the best you can. If you're low on Embers at any point, make sure you have enemy health bars rolling around. If you see them below 20%, target them and Shadowburn. It's like getting a free Ember. Your Ember generation should be outrageously high if you keep Rain of Fire running.

Care to take a look at my armory page and tell me what you think of my stat priority? Does it need changing using grsac or sup? Will it work the way it is?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/area-52/Bigd%C3%B6ts/advanced

Thanks!

[Omaric 246]

Then proceed to hit Shadowburn 3 times. Delay this effect instead of using Havoc on CD for Chaos Bolt the best you can. If you're low on Embers at any point, make sure you have enemy health bars rolling around. If you see them below 20%, target them and Shadowburn. It's like getting a free Ember. Your Ember generation should be outrageously high if you keep Rain of Fire running.

The only time I can really see casting Havoc on Horridon (assuming you're struggling with heroic progression), is if you're moving to a new door and there's only 1 add left OR if you're at the end of the fight and the big bad troll dude finally jumped down. Otherwise Shadowburn'ing 2-3 mobs with a Havoc on a high health add seems to give you the most bang.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Omaric

[gahhda 95]

Care to take a look at my armory page and tell me what you think of my stat priority? Does it need changing using grsac or sup? Will it work the way it is?

http://us.battle.net...igdöts/advanced

Thanks!

You seem to be trying to balance all three secondary stats, which is rather odd. For a fight like horridon, I'd say mastery all the way. The amount of embers you get via RoF/Immolate/Shadowburn mean you spend most of the fight (until p2) spamming chaos bolt/shadowburn.

The only fights I'd consider not using mastery on are iron qon normal mode and lei shen. The other two *possibilities* are ji-kun and jin'rokh, and because both of those fights have frontloaded periodic burst via damage increase mechanics, I still run mastery because the largest part of said burst is chaos bolt/shadowburn. I think 47% of my dps was chaos bolt on our heroic ji-kun kill iirc :D.

That being said, stats are more about your comfort level, we can sit here and argue semantics over which is technically better at what all day, but if it makes you feel more safe, do it.

[Allkindsofdots 0]

You seem to be trying to balance all three secondary stats, which is rather odd. For a fight like horridon, I'd say mastery all the way. The amount of embers you get via RoF/Immolate/Shadowburn mean you spend most of the fight (until p2) spamming chaos bolt/shadowburn.

The only fights I'd consider not using mastery on are iron qon normal mode and lei shen. The other two *possibilities* are ji-kun and jin'rokh, and because both of those fights have frontloaded periodic burst via damage increase mechanics, I still run mastery because the largest part of said burst is chaos bolt/shadowburn. I think 47% of my dps was chaos bolt on our heroic ji-kun kill iirc .

That being said, stats are more about your comfort level, we can sit here and argue semantics over which is technically better at what all day, but if it makes you feel more safe, do it.

I keep reading/finding the same info. Excuse this if it just sounds too noob but, the fastest way i have found to test this is on a silly training dummy, unless I wait for raid nights to test new builds. Prolly not a good idea. So, what I have found on the dummies is, if I increase mastery at the cost of haste or crit (especially crit), i do less dps. I can go from being able to hold unbuffed 105k straight single target dps on the dummy, down to 85k very quickly. i am assuming that those numbers will not at all reflect what my dps is going to be raid buffed and in the horridon fight. This correct? My dps seems to be better @ around the 5k mark then even the 4k mark of haste. So should I ignore the dummies and just see for myself in a real raid environment? I will be able to post a log of tonights run after we finish tonight. Hopefully it is not full of wipes but, yeah. :)