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IndrekAamann

Uh vs frost-raiding

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Posted (edited)

Hey guys i am new into dk so i wonder what is best to go at 700 ilvl for raiding smile.png i got 715 ilvl frost weapons and unholy allso ,got both of them smile.png and is skull of war max upgraded worth the purchase for ether of those specs? smile.png or is there any other trinket what is actually good and i can purchase? smile.png  and any Uh advice would be amazing smile.png all i keep hearing is it is really hard to play. and is UH at all worth to go if i dont have legendary ring?

Edited by IndrekAamann

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Frost is generally better until you get close to BiS heroic gear and legendary ring. That said, play what you want. Normal and heroic (and honestly even mythic after the Valor upgrades) don't really require you to min/max to be successful.

As for trinkets, Skull of War shines for Unholy once you get the ring if you can line up the ring's use with the trinket's ICD. Skull kinda sucks for Frost though, because crit is pretty blah for it.

Unholy isn't hard to play per se but there is a definite learning curve, especially with the Breath of Sindragosa playstyle.

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Demonvark has a good guide here to answer this one. 

Basically you want 30% unbuffed multi and the legendary ring and some nice trinkets. The 4 piece tier set helps alot too.

BoS is a major dps boost if you do it right and its just takes some work to get the hang of it and then alot more work to master it. 

Even at the getting the hang of it stage you should see a dps increase.

 

Not sure if UH works as well without the ring with BoS but it can work nicely with the NP talent and keeping your diseases on all the toons at max stacks while you get your ring. Something to think about.

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I cant edit my post but its Demonardvark's guide.

 

The NP play style mentioned is Necroblight as well.

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I tried the BoS without having the 30% multi unbuffed and its not as good as DW frost for pure dps. 

Stick with frost till you have the gear to use the BoS system.

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I tried the BoS without having the 30% multi unbuffed and its not as good as DW frost for pure dps. 

Stick with frost till you have the gear to use the BoS system.

 

DW frost will be the superior playstyle well throughout heroic. The general ranking system is basically 

LFR, Normal, First half heroic:  frost > unholy

2nd half heroic:  Frost =  unholy

Mythic: unholy >  frost

 

Unholy is very gear dependent and if not using BOS necroblight now only has a couple niche fights even if that. With the valor re-implementation, everyone basically has an extra 10 gear levels. This has led to a priority being over burst damage versus anything else. Unholy DK necroblight takes too long now for the damage to ramp up. By the time you get 15 stacks rolling on bad guy they are pretty much dead. Dual wield frost has crazy burst with both hawling blurst spam and defile. During Higher end raiding when you have higher heroic gear unholy BOS begins to take over again because it is pure burst. After the unholy bos burst ends your dps plummets quickly. So to see leet numbers bosses have to be dying very quickly ie burst. So, if you check warcraft logs you can see unholy dks pulling high 200k DPS but the fight is only lasting 45 seconds. So not only does BOS require strong gear, a strong mastery of rotation, it also sorta requires a good group as well XD

 

So in general stay with Dual Wield frost until late heroic progression then you can start switching to unholy bos. Or, once you get to mid heroic you can also try to switch to unholy necroblight until you get comfy with BOS. 

 

For either I will shamelessly self promote and leave this here

 

Necroblight guide:

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/10247-demonardvarks-unholy-dk-necroblight-guide/

 

BOS Guide:

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/15895-demonardvarks-unholy-breath-of-sindragosa-guide-11/

 

oh and skull of war is really great for BOS usage IF ring is being popped on pull. There are a few fights were the ring is saved and skull of wars potency is decreased. As far as getting ready to eventually use bos you will want unending hunger off of gorefiend. Next you would want ideally to get a vial of convulsive shadows (any lvl really) off of maidens from blackrock foundary. If not obtainable then you would probably be best with skull of war lvl 6 for all non demon bosses and heirloom trink for demon bosses. 

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I tried the BoS without having the 30% multi unbuffed and its not as good as DW frost for pure dps. 

Stick with frost till you have the gear to use the BoS system.

 

DW frost will be the superior playstyle well throughout heroic. The general ranking system is basically 

LFR, Normal, First half heroic:  frost > unholy

2nd half heroic:  Frost =  unholy

Mythic: unholy >  frost

 

Unholy is very gear dependent and if not using BOS necroblight now only has a couple niche fights even if that. With the valor re-implementation, everyone basically has an extra 10 gear levels. This has led to a priority being over burst damage versus anything else. Unholy DK necroblight takes too long now for the damage to ramp up. By the time you get 15 stacks rolling on bad guy they are pretty much dead. Dual wield frost has crazy burst with both hawling blurst spam and defile. During Higher end raiding when you have higher heroic gear unholy BOS begins to take over again because it is pure burst. After the unholy bos burst ends your dps plummets quickly. So to see leet numbers bosses have to be dying very quickly ie burst. So, if you check warcraft logs you can see unholy dks pulling high 200k DPS but the fight is only lasting 45 seconds. So not only does BOS require strong gear, a strong mastery of rotation, it also sorta requires a good group as well XD

 

So in general stay with Dual Wield frost until late heroic progression then you can start switching to unholy bos. Or, once you get to mid heroic you can also try to switch to unholy necroblight until you get comfy with BOS. 

 

For either I will shamelessly self promote and leave this here

 

Necroblight guide:

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/10247-demonardvarks-unholy-dk-necroblight-guide/

 

BOS Guide:

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/15895-demonardvarks-unholy-breath-of-sindragosa-guide-11/

 

oh and skull of war is really great for BOS usage IF ring is being popped on pull. There are a few fights were the ring is saved and skull of wars potency is decreased. As far as getting ready to eventually use bos you will want unending hunger off of gorefiend. Next you would want ideally to get a vial of convulsive shadows (any lvl really) off of maidens from blackrock foundary. If not obtainable then you would probably be best with skull of war lvl 6 for all non demon bosses and heirloom trink for demon bosses. 

 

 

Love the guides Demonardvark. 

The necroblight guide is marked 6.1, has anything much changed on it?

Is mastery not better for NB rather than multi or does mastery affect the dots from the diseases?

Cheers

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I tried the BoS without having the 30% multi unbuffed and its not as good as DW frost for pure dps. 

Stick with frost till you have the gear to use the BoS system.

 

DW frost will be the superior playstyle well throughout heroic. The general ranking system is basically 

LFR, Normal, First half heroic:  frost > unholy

2nd half heroic:  Frost =  unholy

Mythic: unholy >  frost

 

Unholy is very gear dependent and if not using BOS necroblight now only has a couple niche fights even if that. With the valor re-implementation, everyone basically has an extra 10 gear levels. This has led to a priority being over burst damage versus anything else. Unholy DK necroblight takes too long now for the damage to ramp up. By the time you get 15 stacks rolling on bad guy they are pretty much dead. Dual wield frost has crazy burst with both hawling blurst spam and defile. During Higher end raiding when you have higher heroic gear unholy BOS begins to take over again because it is pure burst. After the unholy bos burst ends your dps plummets quickly. So to see leet numbers bosses have to be dying very quickly ie burst. So, if you check warcraft logs you can see unholy dks pulling high 200k DPS but the fight is only lasting 45 seconds. So not only does BOS require strong gear, a strong mastery of rotation, it also sorta requires a good group as well XD

 

So in general stay with Dual Wield frost until late heroic progression then you can start switching to unholy bos. Or, once you get to mid heroic you can also try to switch to unholy necroblight until you get comfy with BOS. 

 

For either I will shamelessly self promote and leave this here

 

Necroblight guide:

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/10247-demonardvarks-unholy-dk-necroblight-guide/

 

BOS Guide:

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/15895-demonardvarks-unholy-breath-of-sindragosa-guide-11/

 

oh and skull of war is really great for BOS usage IF ring is being popped on pull. There are a few fights were the ring is saved and skull of wars potency is decreased. As far as getting ready to eventually use bos you will want unending hunger off of gorefiend. Next you would want ideally to get a vial of convulsive shadows (any lvl really) off of maidens from blackrock foundary. If not obtainable then you would probably be best with skull of war lvl 6 for all non demon bosses and heirloom trink for demon bosses. 

 

 

Love the guides Demonardvark. 

The necroblight guide is marked 6.1, has anything much changed on it?

Is mastery not better for NB rather than multi or does mastery affect the dots from the diseases?

Cheers

 

 

Multistrike is superior by a landslide.  Only at 4-5+ long lived target does mastery overtake it (spoilers that never happens these days). 

 

6.2 brought a lot of things that made necroblight strong originally, 4 piece giving an increase to damage and attack speed, reapers harvest trink off archi giving wandering plague, lot of good stuff there none influences rotation (except maybe making sure to have high uptime on dark transformation).

 

However, again the valor upgrade system coming back, made it where trash just melts (and depending on progression so do bosses). So it pretty much rendered reapers harvest useless except for a couple niche fights. So, in reality, 6.2 brought some good stuff but then later took some of it away XD

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So you recomend Multi in NP build?? how much %?? My unbuffed numbers are:

Mastery = 65%

Multi = 40.45% 

 

Runing UH Np atm

 

What you think?

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So you recomend Multi in NP build?? how much %?? My unbuffed numbers are:

Mastery = 65%

Multi = 40.45% 

 

Runing UH Np atm

 

What you think?

 

unholy has no ms cap, stack it till your eyes bleed :D

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Posted (edited)

 

So you recomend Multi in NP build?? how much %?? My unbuffed numbers are:

Mastery = 65%

Multi = 40.45% 

 

Runing UH Np atm

 

What you think?

 

unholy has no ms cap, stack it till your eyes bleed biggrin.png

 

 

Edited by Jack4583

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LOL thnx for the info

 

And what about NP stacking mastery??, not recomended??

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LOL thnx for the info

 

And what about NP stacking mastery??, not recomended??

 

by default you are going to end up with a decent amount of mastery already on your gear, this is enough. mastery WAS  at one point the better necroblight stat. however, adds don't stay up long enough for it to matter, and you need 4-5 long lived adds in order for mastery to over take multistrike (in current raid environment, even on lfr, this doesn't happen ever). so because of the more bursty nature of current progression the value of multistrike is far greater than mastery. 

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