Allkindsofdots

Destrustion Warlock Stat explanation needed

54 posts in this topic

So after hours of searching online, and this very website, I have come to the conclusion that I am confused.

One website i find, or player I talk to in game says that my stat priority should be crit/haste/mastery. The next says haste/mastery/crit. Then I hear about the breakpoints! Oh boy! At this point I have no idea what website to believe, or where my haste breakpoints are for my lock. Currently I am sitting at 4300 haste roughly, hoping that the first BP is the 4171 I have found. So if that is correct, what is next? Should I stack lots of mastery or crit? I have played with a lot of different formulas and have yet to find that "sweet spot". I am currently at 60% mastery, 10% haste, and 13% crit.

I seem to do OK dps on the training dummies but am not really sure. With this build unbuffed, I can hold right around 97-100k dps on the dummy. This on a 4 minute test using DS on CD along with blood fury. I have the T14 4set bonus.

I am at 500 ilvl.

Any thoughts??

Thanks ahead time!

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I dont know the much about the destro breakpoints, but i know that even without that haste is quite valuable, as it lowers ur GCD, cast time and increases ur mana regen. The prio i've been following and find quite strong is Haste = Crit > Mastery. I am currently my guilds no 1 dps as we're progressing through ToT normal. I am very close to your ilvl as well, as mine is 501 so u have something to compere too. Spesially if ur choosing GoSup, ur pet will only becomes stronger as it powers up with ur haste.

Here is my Armory page if u want to check it out. I might even be wrong about the stats myself, but i found it quite strong.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/Gincor/advanced

- Horcored

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i don't know of any breakpoint that's 4171...and if there is, i can't find a front page hit on google of that phrase together (warlock haste 4171)

however, 4717 is a non-goblin + 5% raid buffed affliction haste breakpoint.

http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=44

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On my Destro lock I tend to stack mastery and where if cant reforge to crit. I just get rid of all the haste I can as I have backdraft. When I have no more backdraft I just use chaos bolt and by then conflag is off cd. If not maybe refresh Immolate. I find haste dosnt really improve your dps as destro at all. If you dont believe me, I am getting 120k dps buffed and flasked using these stats. I can see why haste is useful on demo locks so they can get more spells in between using hand of gul'dan, but even with using the same reforging I do on destro I can get doom and three touch of chaos off.

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I find haste dosnt really improve your dps as destro at all.

You can cast more spells, more fast and generate more embers and cast more chaos bolts.

And Haste increase exponentially, make it more value.

Besides, in single target fights, IT'S A FACT that Haste is better than mastery.

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I dont know the much about the destro breakpoints, but i know that even without that haste is quite valuable, as it lowers ur GCD, cast time and increases ur mana regen. The prio i've been following and find quite strong is Haste = Crit > Mastery. I am currently my guilds no 1 dps as we're progressing through ToT normal. I am very close to your ilvl as well, as mine is 501 so u have something to compere too. Spesially if ur choosing GoSup, ur pet will only becomes stronger as it powers up with ur haste.

Here is my Armory page if u want to check it out. I might even be wrong about the stats myself, but i found it quite strong.

http://eu.battle.net...Gincor/advanced

- Horcored

I looked at your armory,I noticed on both of your specs you still have the drain life glyph? That effect is passive now and the ability it gives now is i think.. 20% more from drain life....you really shouldn't ever have to use that if your using unending resolve and sac pact/dark bargain during hard damage phases. You could be using either SS or the Healthstone glyph for greater survivability and to take some pressure off your healers but thats just my suggestion,also i noticed your using Achimonde's vengeance for your destro spec? I was just curious as to if you use that full time or for a specific fight.

On my Destro lock I tend to stack mastery and where if cant reforge to crit. I just get rid of all the haste I can as I have backdraft. When I have no more backdraft I just use chaos bolt and by then conflag is off cd. If not maybe refresh Immolate. I find haste dosnt really improve your dps as destro at all. If you dont believe me, I am getting 120k dps buffed and flasked using these stats. I can see why haste is useful on demo locks so they can get more spells in between using hand of gul'dan, but even with using the same reforging I do on destro I can get doom and three touch of chaos off.

What's your ilvl and the % for the rest of your stats though? He did mention he's only 500 ilvl so it may not be practical for him to just dump everything into mastery. Mastery also doesn't scale with your pet,haste however does if I'm not mistaken.

Also on a side note to anyone else who stacks haste,like myself. At what point is stacking haste too much? Im at 6103 without BotH with 18% crit and around 40% mastery and I maintain around 110k, with burst around 160ish maybe? My incinerates are about 1.7 second cast down from the 2 second normal. I just dont want to be throwing unnecessary haste when i could be putting it into crit or mastery.

Also,heres my armory for a reference,or if anyone has any noticeable proven suggestions to help me increase dps and whoop up on some of these frost mages!!! http://us.battle.net.../Cynex/advanced

Edited by Cynex

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I noticed at the 506~ ish ilvl range, haste was over taking crit quite a bit in my sims. Now that my ilvl has risen to 516, crit and haste are more equal. I think my weights are Crit: 212 Haste:209 Mastery: 181 or something of the like. I would imagine having both of these stats high is what really matters. I've bugged a few fellow locks on my server that are far more skilled and knowledgable than I, and they concur with this idea. While sims arent perfect, they give a general direction to follow. Haste might come out ahead in real world application simply because of fight mechanics. (Think of an add that dies really fast, if you have more haste you can get more of x spell off before it dies).

The exception to this is on Heroic JinRok and Heroic Horridon, where using GoSac and a pure mastery build are king due to damage buffs.

TL:DR, it comes down to playstyle. Personally, I like haste because having a faster CB and non backdraft incinerates enables me to get casts off quicker and makes my rotation feel not so clunky. With low haste, I was really feeling some clunkyness.

Here are some logs with my ilvl at around 509, using Int> Hit> Crit = Haste > Mastery and GoSup. Don't make fun of my immo uptime on durumu. :x I'm sitting at around 12.43% haste and 23% crit as of now.(after getting a few items last week) I sat most of this past week so I haven't been able to do real fight testing with that much crit. I imagine I will bring it down quite a bit for more haste though.

http://www.worldoflo.../?s=3095&e=3612

http://www.worldoflo...Done/?s=5&e=182

Was at 510 ilvl for this one, same stat priority.

http://www.worldoflo...e/?s=711&e=1272

Edited by idmaxguy

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As Zagam mentioned in a previous post which,i couldnt find, simcraft weights are more of a rough guideline that revolve around your gear and reforge at the time, in order to really see a difference in dps you have to change things slowly and go from there...odd are if you had a stat way above the other two its going to be higher up on your weights in simcraft as well. I spend a few hours a day looking at everything that gets posted on various forums and I do seem to see a consensus along the lines of what your mentioning stat wise in that once you get higher up around ilvl510+ haste=Crit> Mastery.

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Through a lot ofntesting i have found that around 5k haste is the sweet spot for my ilvl. Anymore than that seems to lower my dps right now. Crit being my next stat to pad then mastery falls to last. I am holding 110-115k steady and will burst with cd's during a fight upto 115-120k. If lust is done at the pull and timed right with full embers, i will go well over 200k.

This seems to be the best i can get till i get better gear.

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At my ilvl (503) I find crit = haste > mastery with GoSup and the observer or imp to be my favorite set up. I tried a ton of haste, and a ton of crit, but they work together beautifully for me when they're kept balanced. The rotation is very smooth due to the increased mana regen combined with the high ember generation from the increased crit chance as well as the faster casting speed. The faster chaos bolts when Cha-Ye procs are great as well.

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Since I broke my t14 4-set, I found Service: Succubus to pull around 300 more dps than Supremacy: Observer.

Running crit > haste > mastery reforge with int+mastery gems to prevent mastery dropping too low, as simcraft does undervalue mastery a bit.

At 507 ilvl im currently simming out at 128k dps, once I can get rid of my crappy trinkets (RoY and 522 VP) I'll start stacking haste instead of crit due to the way RPPM works.

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Ok, I seem to be mistaken. I will try and reforge into some haste on my lock now and see how that goes. Though like I said, with my current reforging im getting very good dps indeed. Then again, maybe this can improve it.

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Remember, the value of mastery is currently rather undervalued in simcraft as it doesn't spend its embers as efficiently as possible.

Also t15 has very few purely single target fights where there is only ever 1 target to attack. As soon as you can start using RoF on more than one target, or have lots of adds you can snipe with shadowburn, the value of mastery increases massively.

Crit=Haste is the best for single target as it allows for rapid ember generation and buffs your pets damage too, but with RoF currently producing an increased amount of embers, and shadowburn returning double, mastery appears to be the best stat on any fight you can abuse these mechanics. Even Megaera, a fight where you want to be single targeting the heads for the most part, has the potential to RoF both heads and Havoc immolates for increased single target damage due to more embers which translates to more chaos bolts.

If you want to reforge for every fight then you can do so, but if not, going haste=mastery with the observer/imp seems to be the best method.

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haste will outweight mastery highly unless lots of mobs are present (if i'm correct)

Haste also translates into more trinket procs with the rpm trinkets.. More procs = more damage.. especially if used correctly..

Same with affliction.. I use wooshoo's and breath of the hydra both normal version.. both are great for affliction and destro.. if used correctly with the right spells the damage is incredible :)

Haste = happy warlock.

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I tried full mastery build yesterday with goSac, can't post logs now because I'm on mobile but it is public you can check Apex-Twisting Nether if you like. It was absolutely awesome for horridon and tortos even tho I performed bad, pulled 150k on magaera and ranked 31th west which was unexpected imo. But when it comes to pure single target(Durumu) it wasn't satisfying enough. It felt like my rppm trinkets weren't proccing enough and I casted tons of Chaos Bolts without any procs. Maybe it was my bad at ember consuming but that build requires to be almost perfect with ember usage for sure

EDIT: All fights were on normal.

Edited by Sifon

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Yeah, Sifon, what you're seeing is the effect of the Grim of Sacrifice nerf. For Destruction, no matter how you reforge it, if you're dealing with a single target situation, Grim of Sacrifice is subpar. I find it odd that for single target DPS I go Demonology + Grimoire of Sacrifice and for AoE fights, I go Destruction. Completely backwards from last expansion.

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I really want to try Demo + Sac but I don't have Lei Shen trinket yet and probably I won't get it for a while, I wanna save a coin for it but I need 3 pieces now and Horridon HC is next in queue for coins.

What about Affliction Zagam? I know you don't like it but when you get legendary meta gem(which simmed %38 uptime for me) don't you think Affliction will pull ahead more and more? Only fun I have as Affliction is seeing myself topping meters but if it's dps is too far ahead to compare I will be %100 Affliction soon.

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Even if Affliction is ahead of Demo, I'll stay Demo. I almost quit WoW in the last tier because I felt forced to play a spec. I enjoy min/maxing, but I don't enjoy playing a spec that I don't like. I'm already crushing simulations as Demo, so I don't really know what will be 'on top' as far as real players playing. I know Affliction has the capacity to be the best with its ability to best maximize snapshotting. I raid with some of the best Hunters I've ever played with in the game, and I'm pushing them for the top position on the meters as Demo + Sac on single target. Demo with a Wrathguard/Service Felguard is very nice as well. Destro is too easy of a rotation for me and Affliction is too much micro management to enjoy. As long as I can make Demonology serviceable (lol), I'll be more than happy.

Side note: *#$& coins. 0/18 now in this tier. RAGE. I, too, will spend another week on Heroic Horridon. Here is to people not standing in bad shit.

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I have 1/15 so far :D Does Demo+Sac even worths to play if you don't have Lei Shen trinket?

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Not sure. The 100% crit chance of Doom plus an Imp from each tick is really awesome...not sure how else you'd use Perfect Aim for Demo.

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I meant is Demo+goSac better than Demo+goServ without that trinket?

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That may be questionable. I think the extra Demonic Fury generation he gets from the plethora of imps offsets the cost of using his GoSac buffed spells in Meta form. GoService itself provides a burst of extra Demonic Fury that you wouldn't otherwise get from a guaranteed Wild Imp every Doom tick.

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There has been so much debate over this and its getting a little old frankly. Haste IS NOT better than mastery single target. If you really want to get 1.16% more dps, running a stat that makes the rotation horrifying, and absolutely sucks completely on aoe/cleave, then go for it, and enjoy reforging between every fight. There isn't any justifyable reasoning for stacking haste that I can see. I'd also like to note that haste has an inflated value in simc because it has perfect RoF uptime, which means there is MUCH less mana capping than realistic in game.

Mastery >>>>>>> crit/haste on cleave and aoe.

I'd also like to see proof of the destruction action list 'not spending embers properly.'

GoSac isn't *better* for demo, that isn't to say its worse either. Even when it gets *better* single target than GoServ/GoSup, its less than 1% ahead, and when its behind, its less than 1% behind. The range is so tiny that, until 5.3, it doesn't really matter what talent you run. That being said, Unerring vision makes sacrifice stupidly op on cleaving because of the # of wild imp spawns. I say 5.3 because they saw this coming and already nerfed GoSac by 5% for demo :<.

Edited by gahddo

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^^^

RPPM trinkets all agree: Haste tastes better than mastery!

(Lol rhymes)

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