Damien

Barbarian Frenzy/Thorns with LoN

27 posts in this topic

Hello Deadset and Co.

You say that reforging swamplands as barb will remove the WD skill and reroll with appropriate barb stats..however, I obtained a fresh pair of 2.4.1 swampland waders today on my WD and reforged them as Barbarian. The WD skill was still there as well as Intelligence. Luckily they rolled ancient the first reforging :(

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Would Heart of Iron work for chest piece or perhaps in the cube once you have enough life per hit to not have vambrace of sescheron in the cube?

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On 5/29/2016 at 6:08 PM, Guest Entirin said:

Would Heart of Iron work for chest piece or perhaps in the cube once you have enough life per hit to not have vambrace of sescheron in the cube?

You could, though my honest recommendation once you hit enough LpH is to use Nemesis Bracers instead. This is the best elite hunting build in the game, I'd play to its strengths :)

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Posted (edited)

On 5/28/2016 at 7:15 PM, Guest Alavar#1624 said:

Hello Deadset and Co.

You say that reforging swamplands as barb will remove the WD skill and reroll with appropriate barb stats..however, I obtained a fresh pair of 2.4.1 swampland waders today on my WD and reforged them as Barbarian. The WD skill was still there as well as Intelligence. Luckily they rolled ancient the first reforging :(

Yeah I just tried this as well with the same results--poison damage %, intelligence, and WD skill. I reforged them three times to be sure, and got these same results each time.

Edit: I also took them to the Mystic, and while you can re-roll the Intelligence to Strength, or the WD skill to a Barb skill, you cannot change the Poison Damage.

If those don't work, what else would be best?  Doesn't look like there is much in the way of leg armor that would really fit with the build.  If not, how about using Renewal of the Invoker?  They automatically come with thorns, sockets, and strength, giving you a high chance of rolling an optimal pair.

By the way, I noticed an error.  The skills chart shows Tough as Nails, Berserker Rage, Ruthless, and Nerves of Steel, but the text calls for Boon of Bul-Kathos.

Edited by Warden

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Ah damn, looks like I've made a mistake. I'll correct the guide, but as a general note  - really any pair of well rolled pants will do. Note that it is possible to have Swamplands with Physical % and Thorns (I actually got one the other day - I'll need to roll the Int to Str and will be stuck with a WD primary skill roll, but that's fine in the grand scheme of things). Invoker pants should be the next best thing though, and infinitely easier to acquire.

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10 hours ago, Deadset said:

Ah damn, looks like I've made a mistake. I'll correct the guide, but as a general note  - really any pair of well rolled pants will do. Note that it is possible to have Swamplands with Physical % and Thorns (I actually got one the other day - I'll need to roll the Int to Str and will be stuck with a WD primary skill roll, but that's fine in the grand scheme of things). Invoker pants should be the next best thing though, and infinitely easier to acquire.

So when you say you got a pair of Swamplands with Physical %... Did they drop that way as loot?  If so, what character class got the drop?  And if it was from reforging in the cube, do you know about how many tries it took before you got Physical %?  And what class did the reforging?

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On 6/8/2016 at 8:41 PM, Warden said:

So when you say you got a pair of Swamplands with Physical %... Did they drop that way as loot?  If so, what character class got the drop?  And if it was from reforging in the cube, do you know about how many tries it took before you got Physical %?  And what class did the reforging?

 

I got them with a Physical % roll and secondary Thorns on the Witch Doctor himself. I have not reforged them, since they only need a reroll of the Int (and I gotta live with a primary skill % roll that's WD specific). Very lucky drop, to be honest. :/ It's definitely an exception.

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2 hours ago, Deadset said:

 

I got them with a Physical % roll and secondary Thorns on the Witch Doctor himself. I have not reforged them, since they only need a reroll of the Int (and I gotta live with a primary skill % roll that's WD specific). Very lucky drop, to be honest. :/ It's definitely an exception.

It's really funny...  Just a couple days ago, a pair with Physical damage dropped for my WD.  My first thought was, "Well, I guess Deadset's not crazy!" :D  I took them to the Mystic and found I could reroll the Physical to anything I wanted.  I did not reroll it...it was just curious since it would not let me reroll the damage type when it was Poison.

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Heya, nice build, but I still have a few questions:

1. topazes in main and offhand, is thorns combined or is it per swing?

2. CHC/CHD don't work with thorns, but what about Area Damage, you mentioned it in stat sections, but no in-depth. Is AD working fully with thorns?

3. Do "standard" buffs (Power pylon, Oculus, Voodoo etc) amp the damage of thorns?

 

Thank you in advance :)

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This needs to be updated, you should Always be running vanguard on frenzy in the case of a Thorns build you will be wearing Physical +% gear

~ @ 10 stacks calculated ~

1,005,746,112 with vanguard

812,950,090 with maniac

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On 6/15/2016 at 6:33 PM, ch1zra said:

Heya, nice build, but I still have a few questions:

Heya!

1. Combined; 2. AD works with Thorns!; 3. They do :)

On 6/17/2016 at 8:54 PM, iThinkiWin said:

This needs to be updated, you should Always be running vanguard on frenzy in the case of a Thorns build you will be wearing Physical +% gear

Hey! In the ideal case scenario for a Thorns build, weapon damage range is rolled away for a fourth beneficial stat. The skill itself is merely means to apply Thorns, its actual rune element and damage values are negligible. Frenzy has been picked as it gives you an additive damage bonus that boosts Thorns output irrespective of actual skill damage dealt.

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On 6/21/2016 at 4:15 PM, Deadset said:

Heya!

1. Combined; 2. AD works with Thorns!; 3. They do :)

Hey! In the ideal case scenario for a Thorns build, weapon damage range is rolled away for a fourth beneficial stat. The skill itself is merely means to apply Thorns, its actual rune element and damage values are negligible. Frenzy has been picked as it gives you an additive damage bonus that boosts Thorns output irrespective of actual skill damage dealt.

http://www.d3planner.com/338271987

is what i mean in the case of over top perfect build or otherwise you are losing half a million damage by using any non-physical rune have to remember lon is giving all round dmg bonus and oath gives 200% that does count for some damage not compareable to thorns but even so

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4 hours ago, iThinkiWin said:

 

http://www.d3planner.com/338271987

is what i mean in the case of over top perfect build or otherwise you are losing half a million damage by using any non-physical rune have to remember lon is giving all round dmg bonus and oath gives 200% that does count for some damage not compareable to thorns but even so

Does D3Planner account for damage correctly with a thorns build like this?  I can't find any damage amounts that go up or down as you change Thorns or physical %, but then I have never understood D3Planner very well.  I need to find a tutorial or something.

Anyway, I just tested out my thorns barb (http://www.d3planner.com/257268737).  There are three ranges of smaller damage numbers, one around 30k, one around 5M, and one around 30M. Those include thorns damage (defensive damage, from being hit), main hand damage and off hand damage, but I don't know which is which.  The offensive thorns damage I do runs from 426M to 745M (Vanguard rune) and 586M to 895M (Maniac rune.) 

Now my build is not "ideal".  I only have 36% Physical increase.  And the damage on my off hand weapon has been re-rolled into attack speed.  But even with 40% +Physical, and 50M damage per hit from Frenzy, it still can't compare.  50M + 40% is only 20M increase from Vanguard.  Average offensive Thorns damage is 585M, plus 12.% from Maniac is an increase of  73M.  And from the numbers I saw above, the increase in practice is higher than that.

Unless I am missing something?  Because that's very possible...

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why swampland in the legs slot and not something like depth diggers which give buff to dmg? 

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On 6/23/2016 at 8:14 PM, iThinkiWin said:

I get you guys now.

Here's the kicker: Thorns can't crit. The good part about Thorns builds is being able to focus on Toughness stats completely (with some investment in IAS and CDR) and ignore Crit Chance and Crit Damage, because a secondary stat is dealing all the hurt. Applying the Thorns as quickly as possible is all you care about.

That's the only reason this is a "Frenzy" build to begin with - the effect of Bastion's Revered + the damage boost of Maniac affecting Thorns damage. It can be any other generator and/or rune with comparable results.

You can definitely have a pure Frenzy Barb, one that has Crit stats in place and doesn't roll damage range away from weapons, uses Depth Diggers and Simplicity's Strength, rolls Frenzy % on pants and belt, etc. But that's a different build altogether.

Trying to do both just doesn't mesh well, the linked version is Thorns without the Toughness and Frenzy without fully committing to primary skill damage (missing Simplicity, perhaps even a cubed Undisputed Champion).

P.S. I hope my answer clarifies the last question as well - Swamp Land Wader's Physical damage affix affects Thorns, whereas Depth Diggers affect a skill that is only there to deliver your Thorns damage.

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God damnit, I never thought I'd regret all those Hacks I salvaged.

Thanks for answering Deadset

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Hi all,

i have a maybe stupid question, but i did not find any confirmed information. Boyarsky's Chip's lvl 25 attribution means a irresistable "disable" when elites can hit only you or it goes away like the others like stun, frezze etc?

   

 

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On 8/22/2016 at 10:38 AM, Guest RohamBilly said:

Hi all,

i have a maybe stupid question, but i did not find any confirmed information. Boyarsky's Chip's lvl 25 attribution means a irresistable "disable" when elites can hit only you or it goes away like the others like stun, frezze etc?

   

Hey - if I understand your question correctly, then no. The taunting effect does not diminish from the monster. Note that does not stop the monster from using its AoE attacks, which are what make elites so devastating - limiting the usefulness of this affix if you're hoping to 'tank' with it.

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Nice, looks like I can drop LoN and put in Avarice Band + CoE, plus something in the cube, and get The Thrill Conquest.  That's the next target in the 'Stay Barb' S7 era.

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Hi Deadset! Thanks for this amazing build!

An ancient andariels visage helm dropped yesterday with +20% psysical dmg and +7% attack speed. Unfortunately I had to roll a socket on it, but it hasn't got vit and thorns stats. All other equipment got thorns, but not this. The question is: shuold I use this in the build, or try to gramble a better helm? 

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10 hours ago, Seldam said:

Hi Deadset! Thanks for this amazing build!

An ancient andariels visage helm dropped yesterday with +20% psysical dmg and +7% attack speed. Unfortunately I had to roll a socket on it, but it hasn't got vit and thorns stats. All other equipment got thorns, but not this. The question is: shuold I use this in the build, or try to gramble a better helm? 

Use it for now, but hope for a better rolled one in the future.

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To expand on Blainie's comment, your helm is actually quite good (an ancient one with the same rolls AND the ability to reroll into Thorns is basically a miracle). It can easily be part of your 90+ endgame setup, quite a few Thorns Frenzy Barbs run it.

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Why did you prefer IAS on weapon instead of LOH? It seem like everyone else on Diablo forum suggested to choose LOH on weapon over IAS.

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