Feral Druid 7.3

[Guest Tigris]

Hi

I am interested in coming back to the game, and wanted to inform myself a bit. However I have huge problems finding just the basics out just the basics.

Is there somewhere a good list, which states what each stat does? And what each ability does (precise) ?
What I "found out" (not even sure if correct) is:

325 haste per 1%  But int he guide it is written ferals gain 50% more haste? Is this included or not?
350 crit per 1%
400 versatility per 1%
350 per mastery (8 Mastery given)   meaning 1 point increase 2% dot damage

1 Agility = ? In the past it gave 2 attack power is this still the case?
10% Crit base (as agaility based character)
How does Weapon DPS translates to Attack damage?  (Or does it not?)
Do feral gain some other (additional) attackpower as a cat?
Do you still generate 10 energy per second?
 

For the abilities what does:

"Shred the target, causing [ 0.026 * Level * 695% of weapon damage + 0.482 * 695% of weapon damage OR 695% of weapon damage ]"

mean exactly? I ask especially because of the "or". If calculated the first part would give 3.342*695% weapon damage the one after the or just 695. Which one is correct?
 

And for rake (and ferocious bite):

"Rake the target for [ 1 + 91.2% of Attack Power ] Bleed damage and an additional [ 5 + 456% of Attack Power ] Bleed damage "

Does the 1 and the 5 mean just 1 (or 5) damage? Or is 1=100%?

 

From where do you know how often Omen of Clarity procs? (in the thread stands 5.25ppm but is there some "source" for this? Also does haste increase the number of procs or not?)

I like to make some small calculations for myself, but it is just not possible with the lack of information one can get...

 

For me all these "guides" without having these basic informations does not mean much....

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/2/2016 at 0:06 AM, Guest Opener with Leg Ring said:

does the opener change if you have Chatoyant Signet ?

No, you will just burn through it much faster, since you can spam Shred more.

[Valks 2,373]

34 minutes ago, Guest Tigris said:

For me all these "guides" without having these basic informations does not mean much....

I mean, none of this is basic information, honestly. If you want basic information, you would simply use the "Easy Mode" guide.

What you've requested is far beyond basic, this is stuff that very few players will ever have to worry about in the current state of the game. May I ask what you are hoping to calculate? 

Regardless, I'm going to tag the guide author, @wordup, and hopefully he can help you with your questions.

[Guest Tigris]

Lol how stats and abilities and work is the most basic thing i a game... These are the rule sets. Playing a game without knowing the rules is ridiculous. And at least from people writing guides etc. I expect them to know these things.
it cant be any more basic than that.
In the past on elite jerks these things were really easy to find, nowadays it is impossible...

I want to deduct mathematical formulas calculating DPS analytically (without using a simulation), so just some basic math.

[Valks 2,373]

4 hours ago, Guest Tigris said:

Lol how stats and abilities and work is the most basic thing i a game...

It was in previous expansions, yes, but we're now in a position where sites like us employ theorycrafters and players to complete the maths with simulation tools that already have all of the information required written into them. It means information like what you seek becomes less and less readily available, hence why it is no longer the "basic" information that it once was.

Hopefully you can see what I mean? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just explaining that things have changed.

Anyway, I'm sure Wordup can help with what you need.

[Guest Tigris]

Theoriecrafters just got worse/lazy since in the past there were also theoriecrafters but they were able to actually post stats as well and not just their results, without any proof about them.

From where do these tools have these information? Certainly it has to be from somewhere.
The way it is now you just don't even know when something is calculated completely wrong....

(and there is always something wrong, errors just happen...)

But hey instead of the basic stats, we now have "Easy way" guides, which I could have written without having played the game for 3 years...  The future is bright indeed...

[wordup 37]

14 hours ago, Guest Tigris said:

Hi

I am interested in coming back to the game, and wanted to inform myself a bit. However I have huge problems finding just the basics out just the basics.

Is there somewhere a good list, which states what each stat does? And what each ability does (precise) ?
What I "found out" (not even sure if correct) is:

325 haste per 1%  But int he guide it is written ferals gain 50% more haste? Is this included or not?
350 crit per 1%
400 versatility per 1%
350 per mastery (8 Mastery given)   meaning 1 point increase 2% dot damage

1 Agility = ? In the past it gave 2 attack power is this still the case?
10% Crit base (as agaility based character)
How does Weapon DPS translates to Attack damage?  (Or does it not?)
Do feral gain some other (additional) attackpower as a cat?
Do you still generate 10 energy per second?
 

For the abilities what does:

"Shred the target, causing [ 0.026 * Level * 695% of weapon damage + 0.482 * 695% of weapon damage OR 695% of weapon damage ]"

mean exactly? I ask especially because of the "or". If calculated the first part would give 3.342*695% weapon damage the one after the or just 695. Which one is correct?
 

And for rake (and ferocious bite):

"Rake the target for [ 1 + 91.2% of Attack Power ] Bleed damage and an additional [ 5 + 456% of Attack Power ] Bleed damage "

Does the 1 and the 5 mean just 1 (or 5) damage? Or is 1=100%?

 

From where do you know how often Omen of Clarity procs? (in the thread stands 5.25ppm but is there some "source" for this? Also does haste increase the number of procs or not?)

I like to make some small calculations for myself, but it is just not possible with the lack of information one can get...

 

For me all these "guides" without having these basic informations does not mean much....

Ok, I'll try and answer these one by one (bearing in mind these are from my knowledge).

325 Haste per % is static across all classes and specs, Feral gains an additional 50% Haste from gear equipped (meaning that whilst it is still 325 Haste per %, you will gain more from equipping said items). This is a hidden passive effect added during the Legion Beta to counteract bad Haste scaling for Feral (which was not entirely successful) so has no passive attached to it.

Agility confers 1 Attack Power per point much like Strength now, this was added in WoD (from memory, I could be wrong on this) to make the stats more concurrent with each other.

Weapon damage translates to attacks that scale from weapon damage, and auto attacks. Since Feral is normalised for auto attacks it's a bit more difficult to see the raw impact, but it does not interfere with skills that exclusively scale from Attack Power.

Feral gains no additional Attack Power or Agility whilst in Cat Form (largely because Spell Power scales from your Attack Power now, and skills reliant on that really need to be effective in and out of Cat Form for utility/PvP purposes).

Base Energy Regen is still 10/second, scaling with Haste.

The tooltips you're looking at:

Shred here has an in-built scaling factor to increase with levelling. For a max level Feral Druid the 695% Weapon Damage is accurate. Note this does scale with Weapon damage (which auto factors in Attack Power as a formula of

695% * (([MH Weapon Damage])+ 2.4*([Attack Power]/3.5))

for reference, as is standard with normalised weapon attacks.

For Rake, since it's raw attack power scaling, it seems the tooltip is pulling incorrectly, it's simply an immediate 91.2% AP hit followed by a 15 sec 456% DoT all as Bleed, calculated obviously with AP values multiplied by Mastery and Vers.

The last standing RPPM of Omen of Clarity (which was altered to RPPM in WoD) can be sourced here in this tweet by Celestalon, which as far as I am aware has not been altered.

As said above by Blainie, this information is far from basic, this is raw information about game mechanics and spell interactions. Whilst for yourself this may seem basic to the laymen player interested in the spec they don't need an overflow of this kind of information, which is why it is not included. I appreciate the questions and am happy to answer here (apologies for the slow response), but I think throwing the entire resource under the bus because it isn't there as standard is a little unfair.

[Guest Tigris]

So you answer this stuff from memory and one quote from twitter... So there is no place where one can find reliable information like this?

How can you than even write such a guide?

A guide without stating at least the source for the underlying numbers is useless.

But thank you I will not come back to WoW, when now you cant even find the basic information needed, and there are no useful guides on the whole internet.

Just because you think your readers are dumb is no excuse to be lazy. You can still put the numbers into some seperate section.

 

Also just because you define basic as "what dumb people need" does not make them any less basic.

Everything is based on these values, this is what makes them basic, not if dumb and or lazy people need them.

[Valks 2,373]

48 minutes ago, Guest Tigris said:

Just because you think your readers are dumb is no excuse to be lazy. You can still put the numbers into some seperate section.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems like you're only aiming to pick a fight. Wordup has given you the answers you seek, he has quoted from Celestalon's Twitter, who is arguably one of the more reliable sources of information given that he is, oh you know, a Tech Game Designer for the game you're discussing. If Celestalon isn't a credible enough source, then nothing will be.

If it is that you can simply write the guide yourself, as you said so above, I would suggest doing so. I wish you the best of luck and I look forward to seeing you at the forefront of "basic" Feral theorycrafting.

[Viserius 0]

So, i am wondering about relic placement. right now i have razor fangs in the frost slot, ashamane's energy in the blood slot and tear the flesh in the life slot. Is this a good set up, or should certain relics be in certain slots. i am hoping that this is what is holding my dps back, as otherwise i am following the suggested rotation, build, and stats are at 60% mast, 37% crit, 8% haste and 5 %vers with an ilvl 0f 852.  

cheers

[Guest Marisi]

Hi, I am mostly a bear druid but interested in playing a feral offspec. I have a little experience with playing kitty (mostly in WotLK, again as an offspec to my bear)

I find the core/optimal rotation too complex, especially with savage roar. I don't think I need all the simplicity offered by the easy mode build.

My question is how optimized the easy mode build is in terms of talent synergy?

If I am determined to run Soul of the Forest because I don't like maintaining Savage Roar and I like the faster playstyle that SotF offers, am I better off choosing the full easy mode build or will I get better damage (somewhere between easy mode and optimal) using the rest of the normal build with Moonfire, Jagged Wounds, and Bloodtalons?

[Valks 2,373]

7 hours ago, Viserius said:

So, i am wondering about relic placement. right now i have razor fangs in the frost slot, ashamane's energy in the blood slot and tear the flesh in the life slot. Is this a good set up, or should certain relics be in certain slots. i am hoping that this is what is holding my dps back, as otherwise i am following the suggested rotation, build, and stats are at 60% mast, 37% crit, 8% haste and 5 %vers with an ilvl 0f 852.  

cheers

Hey there!

It doesn't really matter which relic slot has which trait, as long as it is a good trait for you according to our rankings list. If you're struggling DPS-wise, you could always post a log in our Druid forum and some of the ferals could help you out!

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, Guest Marisi said:

My question is how optimized the easy mode build is in terms of talent synergy?

It's build to basically remove as much from the rotation as possible, while still performing decently well. It removes pretty much any complexity added by talents.

If you want to max DPS but don't want SR, just build the normal talent set but with SoTF. You might have to very slightly alter your priorities to account for the increased energy income, but that's not a big issue. 

Enjoy!

[FakeGodz 0]

Quote

 

so 2 of my relic is 840ilvl, and the 3rd one is 865ilvl. All of them increase Razor Fang rank.

I got this new Relic 860ilvl that increase the rank on Ashmane's Energy trait. and it increase my artifact ilvl by +6

Should i replace the 840ilvl? or put it on my Resto Artifact

 

Edit : As for luck have it. as soon i made this post, i open my EN follower quest bag and won 855ilvl that increase Razor Fang Rank, i replaced one of the 840ilvl with this. Making the 860ilvl relic that increase Ashmane's Energy Trait goes straight to my Resto Artifact.

Also, for a fun fact, With Ekowraith Chest and Luffa Wrappings, with balance affinity, you have 27yard aoe range on your Thrash, making it bit of a barrage version for Feral. Pulled the whole dungeon mobs with it xD

Edited December 10, 2016 by FakeGodz
Holy god luck.

[Valks 2,373]

4 hours ago, FakeGodz said:

Edit : As for luck have it. as soon i made this post, i open my EN follower quest bag and won 855ilvl that increase Razor Fang Rank, i replaced one of the 840ilvl with this. Making the 860ilvl relic that increase Ashmane's Energy Trait goes straight to my Resto Artifact

Grats on the new relic! Glad to hear that it dropped for you :)

[Viserius 0]

ok. so should i be going with all three of razor fangs like FakeGodz? 

[Guest Marisi]

14 hours ago, Blainie said:

It's build to basically remove as much from the rotation as possible, while still performing decently well. It removes pretty much any complexity added by talents.

If you want to max DPS but don't want SR, just build the normal talent set but with SoTF. You might have to very slightly alter your priorities to account for the increased energy income, but that's not a big issue. 

Enjoy!

Thanks! I do find I generate a lot of combo points when playing with SotF. I guess I should just Bite whenever Rip doesn't need refreshing?

[SupermanDan 1]

I got a question regarding rings for feral. I've been using a 895 grubby and a 870 matron both are crit vers the other day I got a 840 signet of melandrus  with a socket. simcraft is showing about a 500 dps increase over the 870 but ask mr robot has that thing like 6 - 7k dps over it. just wondering what you guys are seeing. seems like the 10% autoattack is pretty strong for us.

[Guest Fuzzypaws]

Hey, why do'nt we have simmed the blood handkerchief from karazan on trinket list? it seems godly for ferals.

[Orthios 271]

17 minutes ago, Guest Fuzzypaws said:

Hey, why do'nt we have simmed the blood handkerchief from karazan on trinket list? it seems godly for ferals.

It is in there, around middle of the pack, but on the lower side.  My guess would be that the bleed doesn't scale with Feral Mastery, which makes it not as good as it might seem.

[Guest Daltøs]

Hey,

Are there any stat weights you can give us for PAWN ? in the guide are some stats but with only 21Artifact points. It's not the best time to ask because 7.1.5 is coming and there will be a big change in secondary stats, maybe you can update the guide at 7.1.5?

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/10/2016 at 2:18 PM, Viserius said:

ok. so should i be going with all three of razor fangs like FakeGodz? 

Yep!

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/10/2016 at 5:42 PM, Guest Marisi said:

Thanks! I do find I generate a lot of combo points when playing with SotF. I guess I should just Bite whenever Rip doesn't need refreshing?

Bit late, but yeah, that's correct :)

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/13/2016 at 10:57 PM, SupermanDan said:

I got a question regarding rings for feral. I've been using a 895 grubby and a 870 matron both are crit vers the other day I got a 840 signet of melandrus  with a socket. simcraft is showing about a 500 dps increase over the 870 but ask mr robot has that thing like 6 - 7k dps over it. just wondering what you guys are seeing. seems like the 10% autoattack is pretty strong for us.

I think the ring is decent, but I don't think it's a huge boost. I think the simcraft comparison is much more likely along the right lines.

[Valks 2,373]

On 12/19/2016 at 7:41 PM, Guest Daltøs said:

Hey,

Are there any stat weights you can give us for PAWN ? in the guide are some stats but with only 21Artifact points. It's not the best time to ask because 7.1.5 is coming and there will be a big change in secondary stats, maybe you can update the guide at 7.1.5?

We can try, but by pushing the build into a higher AP region, it becomes less of a "general" weight. If you want accurate weights, SimCraft will probably be the best way to obtain them, if I'm honest.