Jump to content
FORUMS
Damien

Arcane Mage 7.3

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, Guest No thx said:

If fire is soo superior how is it then that I end up on top of damage meters (and dps) with arcane?

start to think that you guys didn't play arcane for quite some time.

its not only this guide. Paladin sucked as well till the community forced you to change it. Idk about the other guides, since I don't play them.

thx for the effort (copy/paste and so) but no thx

Quite disrespectful or not?

Assuming gear (i.e. ring, 4piece boni etc. ) is equal:

If you deal more dps with arcane than other mages with fire, then they might just suck.

Arcane still has a very high burst, but as soon as you dumped all your mana and evocated it`s all gone ... then the other speccs still continue high dps and arcane just sucks ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Guest No thx said:

If fire is soo superior how is it then that I end up on top of damage meters (and dps) with arcane?

start to think that you guys didn't play arcane for quite some time.

its not only this guide. Paladin sucked as well till the community forced you to change it. Idk about the other guides, since I don't play them.

thx for the effort (copy/paste and so) but no thx

To be honest I can play any class or spec in the game and be on the top of the meter when compared with 99% of the playerbase. Nothing to do with the class balance. Very flawed thought process you have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Infra
On 22/08/2016 at 7:19 PM, Guest No thx said:

If fire is soo superior how is it then that I end up on top of damage meters (and dps) with arcane?

start to think that you guys didn't play arcane for quite some time.

its not only this guide. Paladin sucked as well till the community forced you to change it. Idk about the other guides, since I don't play them.

thx for the effort (copy/paste and so) but no thx

If you're playing with undergeared players or your guild isn't good enough at playing the game, then yes you can top meters with every single class, it depends on how bad those players are.

However at equivalent gear Fire is far more supperior as Arcane in every way, period. This is a fact and numbers you can see on warcraftlogs are a proof.

You can find this kind of informations at other places but since I don't do theorycrafting myself I can't really redirect you anywhere else than warcraftlogs.

I mean I don't know it's common sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

The stat priority for an Arcane Mage is:

  1. Intellect;
  2. Mastery;
  3. Critical Strike;
  4. Versatility;
  5. Haste.

 

 

 

Hi everyone,

Actually, the Arcane Loot Specialization give us items with Mastery>Haste priority.

So my question is : (For Arcane Mage) Should we change manually our Loot Specialization to Fire during Legion ?

Edited by Supsup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Supsup said:

Hi everyone,

Actually, the Arcane Loot Specialization give us items with Mastery>Haste priority.

So my question is : (For Arcane Mage) Should we change manually our Loot Specialization to Fire during Legion ?

In Legion the Arcane stat priority is Vers>Crit>Haste>Mastery

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Furty said:

In Legion the Arcane stat priority is Vers>Crit>Haste>Mastery

Ok, can you explain ? Is this simDPS ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Wolden

So exactly what should i max because i dont see how exactly versatility helps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Guest Wolden said:

So exactly what should i max because i dont see how exactly versatility helps

Vers>Crit>Haste>Mastery

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Oli

Hello Furty,

 

many thanks for your awesome guides.

I am new to mage and wanted to choose a spec which was demed best by the bests players, which it seems you are a part off.

 

I read your old guide regarding Arcane and have selected this as Spec/Artifact. I sadly saw to late that you are leaning more towards fire now.

(Also found out that 98% of mages I see are fire)

Would you change from Arcane to fire?

 

My Arcane artifact are lvl 7 and I am only lvl 104, so I want to make the change now before it gets to high.

 

I am not Mythic material, maybe Normal/Heroic, but I want to play a spec, which in theory could be the best, if I practice enough.

 

Best Regards

Arcane Oli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Elenya
On 7/19/2016 at 4:21 PM, Furty said:

That's been edited out, based off of Artifact stuff (which extends AP a little).

It applies to both, actually, though Fire is stronger in dungeons.

I can safely say this is a prediction, and I'd suggest you alter that description. Everyone's afraid that Arcane is subpar, when its burst equals Fire and its AOE is far beyond it.

 

Optimal talent setup at 110, single target, is:

-Familiar

-Shimmer

-Rune of Power

-Supernova

-Ice Floes

-Nether Tempest

-Quickening

 

It's nowhere near weak in single target, is demonstrably superior to both Fire and Frost in AoE and kiting/AOE slows/roots, and, if played properly, is much more valuable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Oli

Many thanks for your fast reply. 

Take care and gl in Legion.

 

Best regards

Fire Oli :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Elenya
9 hours ago, Furty said:

Fire is much better, yes.

I wouldn't say it's "much" better. 3-6% better in ST and horrifically lower in terms of AoE, Kiting and CC isn't superior by any extent of the word.

 

You need to modify your summarization, because it's wrong. Arcane is not weak. Fire is not overwhelmingly strong. Optimal talents in your guide are wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Zlatan

I need to agree with Elenya, somehow stacking your Arcane Charges correctly and timing them with Arcane Barrage will proc missles really neat.

I must say, it isn't as "weak" as we think of it. Especially in AOE, I'm spamming Arcane Explosion until 4 charges (since it raises so high in mana cost) and then finishing with Arcane Barrage, then just rinse and repeat. It's dealing like 70k damage to every opponent on the third charge.

I'd like to have some tips on what spec to pick now before reaching level 110.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Guest Elenya said:

I wouldn't say it's "much" better. 3-6% better in ST and horrifically lower in terms of AoE, Kiting and CC isn't superior by any extent of the word.

 

You need to modify your summarization, because it's wrong. Arcane is not weak. Fire is not overwhelmingly strong. Optimal talents in your guide are wrong.

It really is "much" better, particularly in raids. It pushes checks much better, it has far superior priority damage, and cleaves more efficiently (e.g. loses very little single target). Talent build is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Elenya
On 9/1/2016 at 3:40 PM, Furty said:

 

"Much" being relative? Fire has mediocre cleave and has to give up pushing "checks" to do any sort of decent AoE. Ignite damage on secondary targets is abysmal at best.

 

Fire isn't "particularly" better in raids by any extent of the imagination. It beats Arcane in ST by about 5% (Which, believe it or not, your talent setup IS wrong in regards to, go look at Altered Time's forums and you'll see which build is highest, it's not what you have posted) and Arcane beats it in AoE. "Significantly."

If you'd stated that being a complex spec, Arcane is better suited to those who like a challenge, that'd make sense.

 

As it stands, Fire is NOT overwhelmingly superior or even majorly superior. Individual mileage may vary, but that's no reason to discredit and mislabel a spec that is extremely viable in the current tier, at least until we see changes in the next few weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Guest Elenya said:

"Much" being relative? Fire has mediocre cleave and has to give up pushing "checks" to do any sort of decent AoE. Ignite damage on secondary targets is abysmal at best.

 

Fire isn't "particularly" better in raids by any extent of the imagination. It beats Arcane in ST by about 5% (Which, believe it or not, your talent setup IS wrong in regards to, go look at Altered Time's forums and you'll see which build is highest, it's not what you have posted) and Arcane beats it in AoE. "Significantly."

If you'd stated that being a complex spec, Arcane is better suited to those who like a challenge, that'd make sense.

 

As it stands, Fire is NOT overwhelmingly superior or even majorly superior. Individual mileage may vary, but that's no reason to discredit and mislabel a spec that is extremely viable in the current tier, at least until we see changes in the next few weeks.

I guess we'll wait and see all the hordes of Mages going Arcane this tier then. Until that time fluffing up your favorite spec is essentially wishful thinking. If you want to discuss it more or provide more substantial discussion that goes beyond "I like Arcane, it's good, you're wrong!!11!", then I suggest you take it to the forums instead and include something that substantiates your conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok i'm soooo confused and looks like I have geared wrong while lvling (luckily caught this before I started doing dungeons).

So the stat priority is:

Int>SP>Versa>Crit>Haste>Mastery (as I have seen here and Altered Time) and not Int>Sp>Mast>Haste>Crit>Versa anymore??

AMR has it as Int>SP>Crit>Versa>Mast>Haste

Whats the correct stats?

Also why is Versa all the sudden better than Mastery (and everything else for that matter) and is haste back of the bus cause of Quickening?

Why is Erosion not good at all? (Just wondering you didn't really give a reason in the guide?)

Finally for AoE do you switch SN to Res and NT for Ero, as shown on AT?

Edited by Tigersharrk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check the simulationcraft results. We clearly see that Fire does about 13k more dps than arcane, and given Arcane's complexity and how easy it is to mess up the gap can become much bigger. However I find Arcane the most fun to play and since I'm not a top 500 mythic raider my guild doesn't really mind if I'm not totally optimal.

Now, something I keep hearing about is this Nether Tempest + Quickening spam playstyle. The explainations I've seen have been vague but people swear it's the most optimal conserve phase now. Do you know anything about it? Could you explain/touch on it? I mean, the Arcane Guide on Alter Time claims it can give a whopping 100k boost in DPS and it seems the sims back up the claim.

Many thanks.

Edited by Brutalis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest NotConvinced

Mastery the lowest priority for Arcane? I've used stat priority as stated by this guide and unless I was sticking to an extremely low damage rotation I was going OOM after using evocation before any boss was downed.

After changing to a mastery priority I can full on dps without any need for barrage clearing for the majority of bosses. This means I'm gaining the extra damage amount from staying at 4 arcane charges and by staying at full 4 for the entire fight, with maybe a need for evocation on harder boss fights.

The downside is that I have down time after some pulls so tanks that blitz I'm going to lose dps naturally, but my single target on bosses? No problem.

Since this guide pulls so hard for Fire spec though I tested 10 runs as fire with stat priority stated as Icy Veins wants it vs 10 runs as Arcane how I have it and I'm consistently pulling better AoE and ST by 8-10%.

Seeing as how all of your streams since legion has had zero Arcane mage play (or any mage in general) I feel like this is a fire mage pushing for reasons not to be arcane with poor stat priority and bad information about how to use arcane charges.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Guest NotConvinced said:

Mastery the lowest priority for Arcane? I've used stat priority as stated by this guide and unless I was sticking to an extremely low damage rotation I was going OOM after using evocation before any boss was downed.

After changing to a mastery priority I can full on dps without any need for barrage clearing for the majority of bosses. This means I'm gaining the extra damage amount from staying at 4 arcane charges and by staying at full 4 for the entire fight, with maybe a need for evocation on harder boss fights.

The downside is that I have down time after some pulls so tanks that blitz I'm going to lose dps naturally, but my single target on bosses? No problem.

Since this guide pulls so hard for Fire spec though I tested 10 runs as fire with stat priority stated as Icy Veins wants it vs 10 runs as Arcane how I have it and I'm consistently pulling better AoE and ST by 8-10%.

Seeing as how all of your streams since legion has had zero Arcane mage play (or any mage in general) I feel like this is a fire mage pushing for reasons not to be arcane with poor stat priority and bad information about how to use arcane charges.

That's how I'am feeling is that everything is based on this wonky notion that Versa is better than Mastery but Altered Time does have the same stat priority there as well that isn't done by Furty so maybe he just pull it form there since he's more focused on fire. I would like to see a guide done by a main Arcane but after walk my class order halls and seeing it flooded with fire mages that is unlikely.

 

So should I just keep stacking Mastery and Haste or what do you think the priority should be? Cause this is getting confusing! (Especially when no one answers my questions,sigh).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tigersharrk said:

That's how I'am feeling is that everything is based on this wonky notion that Versa is better than Mastery but Altered Time does have the same stat priority there as well that isn't done by Furty so maybe he just pull it form there since he's more focused on fire. I would like to see a guide done by a main Arcane but after walk my class order halls and seeing it flooded with fire mages that is unlikely.

 

So should I just keep stacking Mastery and Haste or what do you think the priority should be? Cause this is getting confusing! (Especially when no one answers my questions,sigh).

I'm not really "focused" on any one spec in particular, just on what is correct. Mastery isn't that strong because the ratio of extra 4 charge blasts gained from regen versus just doing more damage all the time is too low for it to be an effectual stat. Conceptually the stat should be good but it is not balanced correctly, unsure of what exactly is confusing or wonky about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Furty said:

I'm not really "focused" on any one spec in particular, just on what is correct. Mastery isn't that strong because the ratio of extra 4 charge blasts gained from regen versus just doing more damage all the time is too low for it to be an effectual stat. Conceptually the stat should be good but it is not balanced correctly, unsure of what exactly is confusing or wonky about that.

Whats confusing is that AMR has it Int>Crit>Versa>Mastery>Haste, You and AT have it Int>Versa>Crit>Haste>Mastery and "not convinced" is right with no mastery you would go OOM very quickly as well as without haste your AB takes forever to cast. Unless you are taking into consideration the NT spam (which i'm still having a problem comprehending as NT isn't really giving AM that much even when spammed). Which is also why im trying to get guys like "Not Convinced", "No Thx" and "Elenya" to elborate and contribute their stats and such instead of just criticizing you. I personally feel the stats should be Int>Versa>Mastery> Haste>=Crit or Int>Mastery>Versa>Haste>=Crit. I digress im not a "simmer" I just want to raid and have fun while getting some cool gear and i go here to get me on the right path to raiding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Tigersharrk said:

Unless you are taking into consideration the NT spam (which i'm still having a problem comprehending as NT isn't really giving AM that much even when spammed).

Exactly this. How does this work? I'm trying it on a dummy and it just isn't giving that 100k DPS increase people claim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Brutalis said:

Exactly this. How does this work? I'm trying it on a dummy and it just isn't giving that 100k DPS increase people claim.

Straight from AT:

Arcane NT-Spam Playstyle:
NT-Spam playstyle centers around abuse of NT, and Quickening. The goal is to maintain max Quickening stacks through the use of NT spam to proc AM casts, AM casts, and AE.

The traditional "conserve" rotation is replaced by a rotation that consists of spamming NT. AB is used to build Arcane Charges, or to burn mana if you are high (>70ish%). At 4xAC, you want to be using AB so long as your mana is high, else spamming NT. Once Quickening is about to fall off, you prioritize using AM to refresh it. If Quickening if about to fall of and you have no AM, you use AE to refresh and continue spamming NT. Things like Super Nova / Mark of Aluneth are used close to on Cooldown. If you are running ROP, RoP is sync'd to MoA uses, Burn phases, and instances of
being capped on RoP charges.

The "burn" phase is initiated when you have Evocation nearly off CD, and Arcane Power available. Here you play a fairly standard burn rotation - using AP and RoP together, spamming AB and AMing when you have it. NT is now a mana throttle - should your mana pool fall too low without Evocation CD up yet, you revert to NT spam to gain AM charges and regen mana. AE serves the same purpose as in Conserve.

The primary goal should always be keeping Quickening stacks up. If at any point you are not able to maintain max stacks (which takes a few minutes to build up) this playstyle is sub-optimal. For that reason, one should use caution in applying it to in-game scenarios. This requires you to be in melee. If mechanics force you out, unless you are smart with AM banking, Quickening will fall. If there are large movement times or phase transitions, this will not be playable.

I'm still not seeing the numbers but maybe cause im not using AB as much as spamming NT and AE waiting for AM's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Staff
      Save up to 65% on pets and mounts during the spring sale that lasts through April 8. There's a Spring Supreme Pet Pack with 17 pets, and more!
      (Source)
      Spring showers bring April flowers, and new deals are blooming! Freshen up your collection and savor sweet savings during the World of Warcraft® Spring Sale through April 8.1
      The Spring Supreme Pet Pack2 is raining cats, dogs, and more! Throw an adorable pet party by inviting all 17 World of Warcraft pets in the Battle.net® shop to your collection for up to 65% off!
      Alterac Brew-Pup Anima Wyrmling Argi Blinky Blossoming Ancient Brightpaw Cinder Kitten Daisy Dread Hatchling Lil'Ragnaros Lil' Ursoc Lucky Quilen Cub Shadow Soul of the Aspects Twilight Whomper Murkastrasza If you already have one or more pets from The Spring Supreme Pet Pack, the pack's price will automatically adjust to reflect only the missing pets.
      Get Your Pets
      You can also swim through the skies atop the Wondrous Wavewhisker flying mount and command a pair of brutal beasts with The Mighty Kodo Pack—featuring the Armor Siege Kodo ground mount and Crushhoof pet—both are 50% off during the sale.
      1Offers end on April 8, 2024. Mounts, pets, and packs listed are not available in WoW Classic progression games.
      2Pet Bundle is only available on the webshop, not the in-game store.
    • By Staff
      Executive Producer Holly Longdale teased some upcoming experimental PvE-focused content that Blizzard will soon reveal to the community.
      It appears that Plunderstorm isn't the only new mode Blizzard plans to add to WoW this year.
      Holly Longdale today teased an upcoming PvE-oriented event that will soon be revealed to us. Holly might be talking about the "Timerunning Pandamonium," expected in Patch 10.2.7.
      (Source)
      Greetings Citizens of Azeroth,
      It’s been great seeing so many players taking the plunge into Plunderstorm and we’ve loved seeing all of the stories and feedback as this experimental event evolves. It will be exciting to see some of the community content creators going head-to-head as duos during the Plunderstorm Creator Royale on March 30!  This isn’t the end of the things we want to try in World of Warcraft, however, and we have more in store we can’t wait to show you.
      Dragonflight Season 4 is in route as testing begins on the PTR and we’ll have more news to share soon™ on the next experiment we have up our sleeves. We hope those of you who are looking for PvE focused content will enjoy what we’re planning, all while we continue to press forward on development of our next expansion for World of Warcraft— The War Within.
      We can’t wait to share with you all the many things the team has been hard at work on.
      With gratitude and excitement for what we’ll do together next,
      Holly Longdale
    • By Stan
      Blizzard just pushed an encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build to the WoW Dev 3 CDN branch.
      WoW Dev 3 has been updated from 10.2.6.53840 to 10.2.7.53954. The build is encrypted and we can't datamine it.
      Placeholder for tweet 1773384989314298365 13 days ago, we saw the very first encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build on a different branch (WoW Vendor 2).
      Placeholder for tweet 1768106695425700174 According to the 2024 roadmap, Patch 10.2.7, dubbed Dark Heart, is set to introduce new features such as Timerunning Pandamonium, Harbinger Quests, Troll & Draenei Heritage Armor, and a new holiday event.

    • By Stan
      We've looked at the Mythic+ Tier List for the first time in Patch 10.2.6!
      DISCLAIMER
      The following post is based on data from U.GG. Therefore, the data presented here may differ from Petko's Mythic Tier Lists maintained on our site.
      How the Data is Calculated
      U.GG's tier list is created by evaluating damage and healing scores from the very best players and factoring in the frequency of each spec's appearances in the highest rankings of the current Mythic+ season. The tier list of each spec is determined by its effectiveness and prevalence at the highest levels of Mythic+ play.
      Mythic+ Tier List for Dragonflight Season 3 Week 20
      This week's affixes are: Tyrannical, Afflicted, and Bolstering.
      Healer Tier List
      S-Tier Mistweaver Monk A-Tier: Restoration Druid Discipline Priest Holy Priest B-Tier: Restoration Shaman Preservation Evoker C-Tier: Holy Paladin
      Tank Tier List
      S-Tier: Vengeance Demon Hunter A-Tier: Protection Paladin Blood Death Knight B-Tier: Guardian Druid Brewmaster Monk C-Tier Protection Warrior (down from B-Tier)
      DPS Tier List
      S-Tier: Retribution Paladin Shadow Priest (up from A-Tier) Fire Mage A-Tier: Outlaw Rogue Havoc Demon Hunter (down from S-Tier) Augmentation Evoker Demonology Warlock Fury Warrior Beast Mastery Hunter Balance Druid Destruction Warlock Arms Warrior (up from B-Tier) B-Tier: Windwalker Monk (down from A-Tier) Elemental Shaman Unholy Death Knight Enhancement Shaman Frost Mage Survival Hunter Frost Death Knight Marksmanship Hunter (up from C-Tier) Feral Druid  C-Tier: Arcane Mage (down from B-Tier) Devastation Evoker Subtlety Rogue Affliction Warlock Assassination Rogue
    • By Staff
      Here's a video explaining all Plunderstorm skills under 10 minutes.
      Whether you're a seasoned player in need of a quick refresher on what Plunderstorm brings to the table, or you're new to the game mode altogether, this video has you covered. It breaks down each ability in detail, thanks to BBB.
×
×
  • Create New...