Outlaw Rogue 7.3

[Dexter 0]

Hey,

 

I have a question about the current opener provided by the guide. I feel like it's not the best way to open up. Re-rolling several times, especially during AR/Cursed Dreadblades feels like a huge dps loss, if you happen to be unlucky enough to re-roll that often. I had many pulls just like that, re-rolling 6 times and still sitting on 1 single buff, instead of any 2 buffs. 

Anybody thinks the same? Any other opener, which is better? What I have seen on the internet, for example, seems reasonable:

Marked for Death at 10 seconds before pull  -> Roll the Bones 1 second before pull -> Ambush -> Adrenaline Rush -> Ghostly Strike -> Curse of the Dreadblades -> Saber Slash until 6 combo points* -> Run Through -> Saber Slash* -> Saber Slash to 6 combo points* -> Run Through, repeat

(not my opener, source)

The usage of Marked for Death seems reasonable to me, not sure about the rest.

Any thoughts? :)

Edited September 11, 2016 by Dexter

[Carrn 284]

6 hours ago, Dexter said:

Hey,

 

I have a question about the current opener provided by the guide. I feel like it's not the best way to open up. Re-rolling several times, especially during AR/Cursed Dreadblades feels like a huge dps loss, if you happen to be unlucky enough to re-roll that often. I had many pulls just like that, re-rolling 6 times and still sitting on 1 single buff, instead of any 2 buffs. 

Anybody thinks the same? Any other opener, which is better? What I have seen on the internet, for example, seems reasonable:

Marked for Death at 10 seconds before pull  -> Roll the Bones 1 second before pull -> Ambush -> Adrenaline Rush -> Ghostly Strike -> Curse of the Dreadblades -> Saber Slash until 6 combo points* -> Run Through -> Saber Slash* -> Saber Slash to 6 combo points* -> Run Through, repeat

(not my opener, source)

The usage of Marked for Death seems reasonable to me, not sure about the rest.

Any thoughts? :)

This is the main thing about Roll the Bones, and why I have mixed feelings about it.

It is more beneficial to search for any 2 buffs than to play with 1 buff, but you could get unlucky and end up rolling badly 97 times in a row. Yeah it sucks, but that's the way Outlaw plays. The reason you use your cooldowns to help you do that is so it doesn't take forever - your CP generation is hugely more potent with cooldowns running, and let's you put yourself in the best possible position (2+ buffs) as quickly as you can

[SilkAus 2]

9 hours ago, Carrn said:

This is the main thing about Roll the Bones, and why I have mixed feelings about it.

It is more beneficial to search for any 2 buffs than to play with 1 buff, but you could get unlucky and end up rolling badly 97 times in a row. Yeah it sucks, but that's the way Outlaw plays. The reason you use your cooldowns to help you do that is so it doesn't take forever - your CP generation is hugely more potent with cooldowns running, and let's you put yourself in the best possible position (2+ buffs) as quickly as you can

I was actually quite surprised by this. I thought, obviously incorrectly that we rolled for 2+ buffs that helped speed up our rotation, to simply get more Run Throughs out as it is our top damage ability. 

So during AR+CotDB+Lust+Pots in the opener when our rotation is at its fastest, I assumed that even if we only get 1 buff, just spamming out RTs would be beneficial and then fishing for those 2+ RtBs once we got in to normal rotation.

It just feels weird to me, to spend our burst window not bursting :P. But if 2+ buff is just THAT high of a priority I will just suck it up and reroll during CotDB/AR.

I love the style and the surge of happiness when I get 6 buffs on prepull MfD+RtB, which more than offsets the chains of 1 buff that you sometimes get :D

 

 

Edit: I have been running my own AMR and Simcraft sims.

I was surprised again to find that an 850 ilvl Tempered Egg of Serpentrix with a 100 Vers socket and an 845 ilvl Hunger of the Pack with 100 vers socket. Sims Higher than either combined with a 7/7 Alchemist Stone.

I guess I thought the 4k agility proc would weigh heavier than static agi and crit+snake damage.

I guess assumption really is the mother of all f-ups. To be fair the difference is only on the order of 1% to 2%.

I have only started simming now as I am 848 ilvl and am starting to have to make gear choices now that 2 weeks of mythics are done.

Edited September 12, 2016 by SilkAus
More thoughts :)

[Guest Monty]

Hey I was wondering more why you go cannonball barrage over killing spree for aoe or just why killing spree isn't considered in the slightest its not really a topic was discussed. I really just love killing spree as an ability and I hate not having it I just wish it wasn't a talent

[Furty 51]

4 hours ago, SilkAus said:

So during AR+CotDB+Lust+Pots in the opener when our rotation is at its fastest, I assumed that even if we only get 1 buff, just spamming out RTs would be beneficial and then fishing for those 2+ RtBs once we got in to normal rotation.

Don't reroll during cooldowns. There's also no rush to instantly pop CDs. Can reroll for a bit before activating AR/CotDB. Usually if I get a shark I'll just go as this will be more beneficial during CDs than Broadsides + Jolly Roger for example. It's very contextual and not at all easy to explain via a text medium. Should be a video exclusively discussing RTB soon.

2 hours ago, Guest Monty said:

Hey I was wondering more why you go cannonball barrage over killing spree for aoe or just why killing spree isn't considered in the slightest its not really a topic was discussed. I really just love killing spree as an ability and I hate not having it I just wish it wasn't a talent

It is better in every way.

[SilkAus 2]

29 minutes ago, Furty said:

Don't reroll during cooldowns. There's also no rush to instantly pop CDs. Can reroll for a bit before activating AR/CotDB. Usually if I get a shark I'll just go as this will be more beneficial during CDs than Broadsides + Jolly Roger for example. It's very contextual and not at all easy to explain via a text medium. Should be a video exclusively discussing RTB soon.

Ah OK, I had thought about delaying a bit, I guess wasting the first few rolls of the fight getting those 2+ buffs will get made up during the AR+CotDB.

I 100% agree the intricacies and technicalities of RtB is super hard to get across in text. And where to draw the line on so called useless buffs during CDs. Like you said with BS and JR and even Buried Treasure, we will usually not have an energy problem under CDs with pistol shot procs.

[Werchu 0]

I got a question - it seems like Slice and Dice was slightly buffed (100% aspeed up from 90%) and roll the bones was nerfed (most cases 40% was turned into 25%) - but the guide does not reflect that yet. So my question is - wouldn't that bring Slice and Dice closer? I've been playing around with it and to be honest - I hate wasting 5 combo points 4 times in a row beacause I roll a single crap buff. I could have used all of those on Runthroughs instead. I've had a lot more fun playing with SaD as well since I don't have to constantly check which buff I just got (admitedly this could be resolved with experience using the spec and TellMeWhen for example but it still doesn't solve wasting combo points).

I guess I won't switch back to roll the bones ever so maybe I'm just looking for validation but whatevs - it only became fun playing a rogue for me when I switched to Slice since before it felt like a damn chore.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Werchu

[Carrn 284]

6 hours ago, Werchu said:

I got a question - it seems like Slice and Dice was slightly buffed (100% aspeed up from 90%) and roll the bones was nerfed (most cases 40% was turned into 25%) - but the guide does not reflect that yet. So my question is - wouldn't that bring Slice and Dice closer? I've been playing around with it and to be honest - I hate wasting 5 combo points 4 times in a row beacause I roll a single crap buff. I could have used all of those on Runthroughs instead. I've had a lot more fun playing with SaD as well since I don't have to constantly check which buff I just got (admitedly this could be resolved with experience using the spec and TellMeWhen for example but it still doesn't solve wasting combo points).

I guess I won't switch back to roll the bones ever so maybe I'm just looking for validation but whatevs - it only became fun playing a rogue for me when I switched to Slice since before it felt like a damn chore.

The guide does reflect that - I know there's the one paragraph that the text wasn't changed, but all of the tooltips for each skill if you mouse over them do, and the information in the guide also reflects this change.

SnD performs, on average, worse than RtB in all scenarios.

[Kroyfel 0]

Is the heirloom trinket simming really high for anyone else? I don't see it mentioned in the guide (Infallible Tracking Charm).

[Guest Deathraid]

Are stat weights correct in the guide for live? I've been doing some minor simcrafting that's putting haste up with versatility. Am I just simming wrong or is the guide not updated yet(last updated on prepatch 8/29)? 

 

Please let me know. Thank you!

[Carrn 284]

24 minutes ago, Guest Deathraid said:

Are stat weights correct in the guide for live? I've been doing some minor simcrafting that's putting haste up with versatility. Am I just simming wrong or is the guide not updated yet(last updated on prepatch 8/29)? 

 

Please let me know. Thank you!

If you have a loot at a post I made in this thread a few days ago, you'll see that the stats listed are for Rogues at a Mythic (880) ilevel. At 840 the most beneficial stats are going to be Haste / Vers

If you ever have any doubt, believe the Sims for your specific character

[SilkAus 2]

I find it is always best to sim the gear you currently have, if you are concerned about your exact priority. I don't know how current or optimised the rogue apls are, but they seem to make sense to me in simcraft.

Stats are pretty fluid to a certain extent, I did some sims this morning in my current gear and got Vers>Crit>Mastery>Haste. Which differs slightly from the guide. but I am above 840 but obviously nowhere near 880.

 

[Falx 1]

Any reason why haste becomes the worst stat once your gear gets better? Doesn't energy starvation become a problem even if your ilvl is 880+?

[Kroyfel 0]

15 hours ago, Kroyfel said:

Is the heirloom trinket simming really high for anyone else? I don't see it mentioned in the guide (Infallible Tracking Charm).

My heirloom trinket is simming higher than 845 Memento of Angerboda and 840 static agi/vers trinket.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Kroyfel

[Spicyboy 2]

Why are we activating sprint in the opening sequence?

[SilkAus 2]

56 minutes ago, Spicyboy said:

Why are we activating sprint in the opening sequence?

If we have the Legendary Boots that buff our damage by 20% of our movement speed increase.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=137031/thraxis-tricksy-treads

Edited September 13, 2016 by SilkAus

[SilkAus 2]

Just now, Carrn said:

Presumably to get to the boss more quickly and make sure you can keep up while the boss gets positioned by the tank.

Man I overthought that one.

[Carrn 284]

6 hours ago, Falx said:

Any reason why haste becomes the worst stat once your gear gets better? Doesn't energy starvation become a problem even if your ilvl is 880+?

Once you have a certain amount of base energy regen, you don't need much more

[Carrn 284]

Just now, SilkAus said:

Man I overthought that one.

Your answer was actually good, I just didn't assume that people had that legendary yet. 

Also, the current best Outlaw legendary according to Sims is the Insignia of Ravenholdt I believe, although the boots are pretty close.

[Guest Skippy5393]

The ordering of the quality on the RtB buffs is confusing me, mainly because I personally view Shark Infested Waters and True Bearing (so long as AR is on cool down) as the two buffs to look for when rollin' dem bones, so I'm having trouble figuring out which end of the list is the high end. Could you add the phrase "from best to worst/from worst to best" to clarify when you get the chance? I'm assuming the SIW is the one at the top, but I want to make sure, as I really do want to get better at this class.

[Falx 1]

10 hours ago, Carrn said:

Once you have a certain amount of base energy regen, you don't need much more

Hence is not a matter of energy regain, it's  more like, once u get to X amount of Haste, it becomes the worst stat. In that case I'd like to know what X amount of Haste I need to have before going for other stats :)

[Carrn 284]

6 hours ago, Guest Skippy5393 said:

The ordering of the quality on the RtB buffs is confusing me, mainly because I personally view Shark Infested Waters and True Bearing (so long as AR is on cool down) as the two buffs to look for when rollin' dem bones, so I'm having trouble figuring out which end of the list is the high end. Could you add the phrase "from best to worst/from worst to best" to clarify when you get the chance? I'm assuming the SIW is the one at the top, but I want to make sure, as I really do want to get better at this class.

Honestly, so long as you're rolling for 2 or more buffs, you don't need to worry about which specific buffs you have

However, the guide does list the buffs in order of value to you. Aka the first on the list is the most valuable, and so on and so forth

[Zupsero 1]

decided to play assa for the first part of this expansion. since i get "never lucky" with the bones rolling. 1 outta 10 fights i get good buffs and deal by far the best dps in the group 9 times outta 10 im frustrated and hate my life as a rouge. playing assa gives u a solid reliable dps, with not much of a loss even if u have to move a lot and stuff.

i never like sword speccs anyways. i know its not the ideal way to handle this. but im done with the gambling, maybe i give it a shot later this moth or so. i dunno 

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, Zupsero said:

decided to play assa for the first part of this expansion. since i get "never lucky" with the bones rolling. 1 outta 10 fights i get good buffs and deal by far the best dps in the group 9 times outta 10 im frustrated and hate my life as a rouge. playing assa gives u a solid reliable dps, with not much of a loss even if u have to move a lot and stuff.

i never like sword speccs anyways. i know its not the ideal way to handle this. but im done with the gambling, maybe i give it a shot later this moth or so. i dunno 

This is unfortunately the problem with RNG-based specs. It's not for everyone, so if you simply don't like the playstyle, then fair enough. 

By law of averages, you should eventually see some better rolls, but they might not always be at the right moment.

[Guest lordofc]

i have 850 blood relic that gives combat potency 3 extra energy. I also have 845 blood relic that gives 10% extra main gauche damage. which one would you use? and why?

Thank you!