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Subtlety Rogue 7.3

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4 hours ago, Blainie said:

Interesting. Will see what Furty says as well. Don't suppose you have the trait to test it? My rogue isn't even 110 yet.

@lipsinch was kind enough to confirm for me that Nightblade ticks do not count as "damage" for Flickering Shadows; it seems to only require you to not attack or take damage, but you can still have Nightblade or any other DoTs rolling

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Hello.

I have a question.

I currently have Nightmare Egg ShellNightmare Egg Shell [840 ilvl] and Tempered Egg of SerpentrixTempered Egg of Serpentrix [855 ilvl]. So, i can't really decide on what is better. The egg has like 100+ agility more but the snake hits pretty low, while the other gives me like ~7k haste. I also have Memento of AngerbodaMemento of Angerboda [845 ilvl] and i'm trying to find the best combination between the three.

Cheers.

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On 9/30/2016 at 0:39 AM, Seynne said:

Hello.

I have a question.

I currently have Nightmare Egg ShellNightmare Egg Shell [840 ilvl] and Tempered Egg of SerpentrixTempered Egg of Serpentrix [855 ilvl]. So, i can't really decide on what is better. The egg has like 100+ agility more but the snake hits pretty low, while the other gives me like ~7k haste. I also have Memento of AngerbodaMemento of Angerboda [845 ilvl] and i'm trying to find the best combination between the three.

Cheers.

Personally I would use Egg Shell + Memento. 

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On 30/09/2016 at 0:39 AM, Seynne said:

Hello.

I have a question.

I currently have Nightmare Egg ShellNightmare Egg Shell [840 ilvl] and Tempered Egg of SerpentrixTempered Egg of Serpentrix [855 ilvl]. So, i can't really decide on what is better. The egg has like 100+ agility more but the snake hits pretty low, while the other gives me like ~7k haste. I also have Memento of AngerbodaMemento of Angerboda [845 ilvl] and i'm trying to find the best combination between the three.

Cheers.

I have absolutely no idea how much damage the Spawn of Serpentrix would give you, so I can't really answer that.

My instinct says go with it because 15 item levels of Agi is not a negligible amount, but if the proc doesn't do much then the extra Haste from the Egg Shell will be very beneficial

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Guest Dachdegger
5 hours ago, Carrn said:

I have absolutely no idea how much damage the Spawn of Serpentrix would give you, so I can't really answer that.

My instinct says go with it because 15 item levels of Agi is not a negligible amount, but if the proc doesn't do much then the extra Haste from the Egg Shell will be very beneficial

According to shadowcraft serpentrix is weaker than the egg. I actually can say that the egg is pretty strong as it has ~ 25% uptime in raid encounters as my logs showed me.

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19 minutes ago, Guest Dachdegger said:

According to shadowcraft serpentrix is weaker than the egg. I actually can say that the egg is pretty strong as it has ~ 25% uptime in raid encounters as my logs showed me.

25%? That seems really high, for a proc based trinket like that, but I'll take your word for it. 

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Guest Guest Tsuid

hey, got im pretty much in the same situation, a friend told me the horn from heymdall is pretty op, currently have Horn (855), Memento of Angerboda (825), Dargrul Mark (845) and flat Agi/Vers (835). What would be the best combo?

 

Angerboda seems pretty op even on 825 since it procs 24/7 and the buffs are quite good

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Probably the Horn and Mark, but I'm not sure what the proc chance is. My advice is to try them and see which ones give you the best output

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Guest Dachdegger
On 1.10.2016 at 8:21 PM, Carrn said:

25%? That seems really high, for a proc based trinket like that, but I'll take your word for it. 

Here are the logs that prove this:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4gVKy1vFDYcTLAbN#type=auras&target=10

On german its "Abwind" i dont know if it will get translated to english when you open it. Its right under shadow dance. As you can see its uptime is ~ 25%. Some are lower because the group wiped before the buff ran out :D.

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16 minutes ago, Guest Dachdegger said:

Here are the logs that prove this:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4gVKy1vFDYcTLAbN#type=auras&target=10

On german its "Abwind" i dont know if it will get translated to english when you open it. Its right under shadow dance. As you can see its uptime is ~ 25%. Some are lower because the group wiped before the buff ran out :D.

Thanks for coming back to post this!

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Yay macros!
OK. I'm pretty macro-heavy when I play.
Here's what I use:

Interrupts and subterfuge:
#showtooltip
/cast [stance:1/3, mod:shift] Pick Pocket; [stance:1/3] sap; [modifier:shift] Gouge; Kick

Stealth opener:
#showtooltip [mod:shift] Symbols of Death;  Shadowstrike
/cast Marked for Death
/cast [mod:shift] Symbols of Death
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Shadowstrike
/use [stance:0] 13
/use [stance:0]  14

Spammer:
#showtooltip [stance:2] Shadowstrike; [mod:shift] Goremaw's Bite; Backstab
/cast Marked for Death
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast [mod:shift] Goremaw's Bite; Backstab
/startattack
/use [stance:0] 13
/use [stance:0] 14

Finisher:
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Nightblade; Eviscerate

 Shadow Dance/Vanish: (This is to get access to the Stealth bar again, for Shadowstrike and Symbols of Death)
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Vanish; Shadow Dance

Ranged/AoE:
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Shuriken Toss; Shuriken Storm

Defense:
#showtooltip
/cast Evasion
/cast Cloak of Shadows
/cast Feint


Pretty much, the normal presses use the normally used abilities, the "shift" ones use the ones that are less commonly spammed, and the spammers also use the "nearly always use this cooldown on CD" CD's.
If 'ya wanna get a little more micromanagement, you can put [nomod] in front of things like Marked for Death and Shadow Blades, so if you're holding Alt then it'll selectively not use those abilities.

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4 hours ago, Sylencer said:

Yay macros!
OK. I'm pretty macro-heavy when I play.
Here's what I use:

Thanks for sharing these! I'm sure they'll help players that are looking to use some macros to gain that advantage!

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Guest Ivanishbrb

I know you guys are working hard and trying to steal some time to get in to wow but any ideas when the guide is going to get updated? I am asking cuz I am currently lvling a rogue and I want to decide what spec to choose.

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4 hours ago, Guest Ivanishbrb said:

I know you guys are working hard and trying to steal some time to get in to wow but any ideas when the guide is going to get updated? I am asking cuz I am currently lvling a rogue and I want to decide what spec to choose.

The Sub guide (the one you commented on) is up to date to my knowledge

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Guest Kizeron
On 9/30/2016 at 7:03 AM, Carrn said:

@lipsinch was kind enough to confirm for me that Nightblade ticks do not count as "damage" for Flickering Shadows; it seems to only require you to not attack or take damage, but you can still have Nightblade or any other DoTs rolling

I find this useful in Ursoc when I have the debuff and need to run out - it's at least a free symbols of death + 2 SS's.
Also similar in Nyth when getting the poison debuff and needing to run out ( but use it after the last poison tick ).

Also curious but the stat weighting in the sub guide is still recommending mastery at 0.65 and versatility at 0.70.
( Noting this hasn't changed since the 15% buff to night blade and eviscerate ) Surely mastery would be weighted at least slightly higher now?
I've also noticed in my person Sims, that the weapon-master talent is out performing the master of the shadows. Has anyone else had similar results?
At second look, it seems to be a re-occurring theme in the high performing warcraft logs too?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#class=Rogue&spec=Subtlety

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On 25.09.2016 г. at 0:18 AM, Blainie said:

Generic comment being mass posted over the comments threads guys.

We are aware of the changes and our writers are working hard to update the guides to suit what has changed. Currently, there is a lot of work still to be done and it's unlikely that every guide will be up-to-date immediately. Expect a flood of updates over the coming days that will answer all of your questions about what is now best after X change, in time for the reset next week.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

So, this doesn't apply to this guide?

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1 hour ago, Seynne said:

So, this doesn't apply to this guide?

There weren't any big changes to Sub as a whole

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Guest Deathbox

So ive tried three different sim craft programs now.. shadowcraft, simcraft, and askmrrobot. They all seem to be running a different stat priority. For instance one is recommending haste, another mastery..  Ive been mainly following the stat priority that was recommended on the guide here at icyveins. Anyone have any rough ideas when i need to stop focusing on Vers and mastery, and start adding more to haste? My crit seems fine to me..

Which of those programs seems the most reliable? 

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5 hours ago, Guest Deathbox said:

Which of those programs seems the most reliable? 

I don't play a Rogue, so I have never used Shadowcraft. Personally, I use Simcraft because I like it, it gives me good results and I know how to use it properly. 

Shadowcraft seems much more user-friendly and I haven't heard bad things about it, so I assume it works well. @Carrn might be able to give a bit more input on Shadow vs. Sim, as well as Haste levels.

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5 hours ago, Guest Deathbox said:

So ive tried three different sim craft programs now.. shadowcraft, simcraft, and askmrrobot. They all seem to be running a different stat priority. For instance one is recommending haste, another mastery..  Ive been mainly following the stat priority that was recommended on the guide here at icyveins. Anyone have any rough ideas when i need to stop focusing on Vers and mastery, and start adding more to haste? My crit seems fine to me..

Which of those programs seems the most reliable? 

Did Shadowcraft give you a randomly high Haste value for Sub? If yes, it's a known bug. They aren't sure why it does that sometimes

In any case, you don't really need to ever focus on Haste as Sub. You'll passively acquire some, but you don't need any. Mastery and Vers will always be your #1 and #2, although if you ever lose a lot of Crit rating your Sims will show you that Crit is temporarily very valuable.

In general Shadowcraft is very reliable - I don't know much about the AMR model, but ShC is developed by the same people who make the Rogue apl for SimC. It's only put in as a more user friendly version

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Guest Deathbox
6 hours ago, Carrn said:

Did Shadowcraft give you a randomly high Haste value for Sub? If yes, it's a known bug. They aren't sure why it does that sometimes

In any case, you don't really need to ever focus on Haste as Sub. You'll passively acquire some, but you don't need any. Mastery and Vers will always be your #1 and #2, although if you ever lose a lot of Crit rating your Sims will show you that Crit is temporarily very valuable.

In general Shadowcraft is very reliable - I don't know much about the AMR model, but ShC is developed by the same people who make the Rogue apl for SimC. It's only put in as a more user friendly version

It was just recommending haste enchants and gems is all. I ignored it and went with Vers. When i simmed with its recommendations it was actually a DPS loss, across both sim programs. Do you guys have any specific targets you recommend hitting for stats? specifically Vers, does it start to lose value after a certain percent? Also i found the option in shadowcraft to use or not use finishers while in Shadow dance... Unchecking this shows a significant boost in dps (20k or so). Which i thought was odd... i dont see those results on a dummy.

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Guest Totusgnarus

Have the BiS lists been updated to the Sub ones, as opposed to the Outlaw ones there were incorrectly showing?

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18 hours ago, Guest Totusgnarus said:

Have the BiS lists been updated to the Sub ones, as opposed to the Outlaw ones there were incorrectly showing?

Due to how Titanforging etc works, having a BiS list is actually pretty useless imo

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On 17/10/2016 at 10:51 PM, Guest Deathbox said:

It was just recommending haste enchants and gems is all. I ignored it and went with Vers. When i simmed with its recommendations it was actually a DPS loss, across both sim programs. Do you guys have any specific targets you recommend hitting for stats? specifically Vers, does it start to lose value after a certain percent? Also i found the option in shadowcraft to use or not use finishers while in Shadow dance... Unchecking this shows a significant boost in dps (20k or so). Which i thought was odd... i dont see those results on a dummy.

No particular target, it will always be an increase

Your specific weights might change around - for example if you ditch a lot of Crit to get more Mastery, Crit might become very valuable until you get back up to a high enough rating. Sims will reflect those kinds of changes

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