Protection Paladin 7.3

[Vlad 411]

10 hours ago, Guest Anonymous said:

Hey Vlad,

Why the DPS major trait (Enforcer) over the survivability one (Bulwark) first? 

Hey.

The reason is that Tyr's Enforcer should allow you to maximise your DPS output before you start raiding. Bulwark of Order should still be taking before you step into the first raid, so ideally you should have them both.

If your artifact power generation is low, or if you feel you need the extra survivability even for dungeons, then you can reverse the order. I'll a mention to this effect in the guide.

[Guest ProtPally]

As a 828 prot pally with some experience tanking mythics, I strongly recommend people aim for Bulwark of Order before Tyr's Enfocer on their artifact traits. It's easier to get and provides a strong passive boost to survivability. Tyr's Enforcer is a huge buff to aoe damage but in my experience damage and threat are never a problem, while prot paladins are very weak at the moment. Bulwark of Order will help to smooth out those moments without Shield of the Righteous where you seem you just fall over.

[Guest Protection Paladin]

Hey Vlad and other readers,

Has anyone come across the desire to create a mouseover macro for Hand of the Protector? With it being the early stages of the Legion launch I've come across many players in dungeons & mythics who simply fail at mechanics and take a ton of damage. I'd love to help my healers out by providing a quick mouseover Hand of the Protector heal but every macro I have tried thus far has failed. The mouseover macro I currently use for blessings is as follow:

#showtooltip Blessing of Freedom
/stopcasting
/cast [@mouseover,help,nodead][]Blessing of Freedom

My thoughts as to why this macro won't work for HotP is because in the tooltip for Blessing of Freedom / Sacrifice, etc. it says "Places a blessing on a party or raid member" whereas HotP says "Calls down the Light to heal a friendly target." Now I could be wrong but I think it would be beneficial to have a mouseover macro for HotP and am wondering if anyone has any ideas.

[Guest A Dreanei Prot Pally]

Ok so, I have done the Artifact Traits backwards, I've gotten Light of the Titans first and am working tords Bulwark next (currently have just finished Righteous Crusader. Now, in Heroic dungeons I end up rivaling the other DPS in damage and am able to survive perfectly well, even with multiple mobs being pulled (rotating cool downs of course). And I've even been told by a healer or 2 that Prot Pally's are op with the overall survivability, one saying that they didn't even need to heal me that much. From that point to now I've been IL.815-833 (current) feeling strong as hell because I'm able to solo the big Map Quest bosses. Is this normal or..?

[Guest Migol]

For single target bosses, wouldn't a combo of the talent first avenger, plus the Artifact trait of Bulwark of Order be a much better pick for survival on tier 2?    You list first avenger as a dps only ability but with the shield it gains via the artifact, it seems like this would be a pretty frequently up mitigation compared to a 3min cd.   

Similarly, against multiple targets (bosses with adds/other bosses) wouldn't Tier 2's Crusader's Judgement also be a superior option, combined not only with Bulwark of Order but also Tyr's Enforcer for more damage=more shield?   Note: not 100% on whether Tyr's enforcer adds more damage to the actual avenger's shield or is its own proc of course.

[Valks 2,373]

On 7.9.2016 at 11:46 PM, Guest A Dreanei Prot Pally said:

Ok so, I have done the Artifact Traits backwards, I've gotten Light of the Titans first and am working tords Bulwark next (currently have just finished Righteous Crusader. Now, in Heroic dungeons I end up rivaling the other DPS in damage and am able to survive perfectly well, even with multiple mobs being pulled (rotating cool downs of course). And I've even been told by a healer or 2 that Prot Pally's are op with the overall survivability, one saying that they didn't even need to heal me that much. From that point to now I've been IL.815-833 (current) feeling strong as hell because I'm able to solo the big Map Quest bosses. Is this normal or..?

Currently, yes. The content available right now is not intended to challenge us, instead it is there to simply prepare us for the proper challenge of raids and M+. Once you venture into high M+ dungeons, you'll notice that you will be feeling much more fragile. For now, just embrace the ability to breeze through the easier content.

[Valks 2,373]

19 hours ago, Guest Migol said:

For single target bosses, wouldn't a combo of the talent first avenger, plus the Artifact trait of Bulwark of Order be a much better pick for survival on tier 2?    You list first avenger as a dps only ability but with the shield it gains via the artifact, it seems like this would be a pretty frequently up mitigation compared to a 3min cd.   

Similarly, against multiple targets (bosses with adds/other bosses) wouldn't Tier 2's Crusader's Judgement also be a superior option, combined not only with Bulwark of Order but also Tyr's Enforcer for more damage=more shield?   Note: not 100% on whether Tyr's enforcer adds more damage to the actual avenger's shield or is its own proc of course.

The reason why BoL is recommended is because it is using a %-based AM. The shield that you get from BoO is a flat damage-based shield that will shield you from X damage, regardless of whether you are getting hit for 2 damage or 200K damage.

At the start of the expansion, you could perhaps argue that BoO could be on par with using %-based AM, but as soon as things start hitting harder, you will regret not having the bonus %-based reduction that BoL can grant through 3 chargers of SoTR.

[Guest Just some guy]

I was wondering, since the section on gems and enchants recommends we take the +200 strength gem, what sort of weight does strength have for our survivabilty?

I know we get some parry from it, and it'll increase the effect of Bulwark of order, but is that really better than versatility?

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/09/2016 at 4:38 PM, Guest Just some guy said:

I was wondering, since the section on gems and enchants recommends we take the +200 strength gem, what sort of weight does strength have for our survivabilty?

I know we get some parry from it, and it'll increase the effect of Bulwark of order, but is that really better than versatility?

I believe the distinction between the two mainly comes from the fact that the Vers gem now only gives 150 of the stat, rather than 250 as it used to.

This means you are now weighting 200 strength vs. 150 versatility.

[Guest Sylynn]

Hello Vlad,

First off, thank you very much for the post!  I do have a question regarding your Artifact progression.  In your suggested artifact progression you pick up the first Golden Trait at level 15 and then the second at level 19.  I believe there is a more efficient way to get these traits while at the same time maximizing your tanking potential.  

In my attached Artifact profession, we would reach the first Golden Trait at level 12 and the second at level 17.  Now where this change seems slight, I believe this slight change will actually make for a better tank before maxing out your tree.  The reason for this is the ability to bypass "Hammer Time" until the very end, which in turn allows you to spend your AP on true tanking abilities.  

Please let me know your thoughts.  Thank you!  =)

Your Friend,
Sylynn

 

12,17

[Valks 2,373]

1 hour ago, Guest Sylynn said:

 Please let me know your thoughts.  

I think your path probably works very well for pure survivability. I think the one in the guide is meant to be a hybrid between surviving and high damage output.

[Guest Yawnday]

Is there any kind of haste cap to watch for if gearing for haste? I find myself most often running content below my ilvl and often don't need to be too worried about my survivability with said content.

[Valks 2,373]

6 hours ago, Guest Yawnday said:

Is there any kind of haste cap to watch for if gearing for haste? I find myself most often running content below my ilvl and often don't need to be too worried about my survivability with said content.

If you're talking for absolute, pure DPS, you just grab as much Haste and Crit as possible. I'm not sure if the possibility of a GCD-cap is enough to deter the reduction of abilities.

[Guest Guest Paladin Beacon]

Will there be a BiS list soon?

I currently have 3 trinkets - Writhing Heart of Darkness

                                              - Talsiman of the Cragshaper

                                              - Parjesh's Medallion 

all at 840, which would be the best two equipped.

 

[Guest ShamProg]

Looking at raid gear, there are maybe TWO pieces that have Versatility. I think it is safe to say Vers should be below Haste (for GCD and mitigation) and Mastery.

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/17/2016 at 8:18 PM, Guest ShamProg said:

Looking at raid gear, there are maybe TWO pieces that have Versatility. I think it is safe to say Vers should be below Haste (for GCD and mitigation) and Mastery.

Are you saying that because there isn't Versatility gear in the Emerald Nightmare, the stat is suddenly made worse?

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/16/2016 at 9:08 PM, Guest Guest Paladin Beacon said:

Will there be a BiS list soon?

Will look into this and ask when it will be possible by!

[Guest Groundsel]

A couple of things I had questions on, if someone doesn't mind clarifying for me:

--- Potions. Since Unbending Potion is strictly an armor increase, would the WoD versatility potion be a good option or are the numbers for it too low? Either for non-physical fights or in general use. (Related: the mouse-over tip on the potion says "bonus" armor. Just a typo?)

--- Gems. Does the 200 Strength gem provide better survivability than the haste or versatility gems do? At this stage I don't really care about doing damage, just being able to soak it.

 

Thanks!

[Valks 2,373]

1 hour ago, Guest Groundsel said:

--- Potions. Since Unbending Potion is strictly an armor increase, would the WoD versatility potion be a good option or are the numbers for it too low? Either for non-physical fights or in general use. (Related: the mouse-over tip on the potion says "bonus" armor. Just a typo?)

No, the UP is better. Despite Versatility being very good, armor is HUGE for a tank. The fact that it was removed as a stat definitely doesn't remove the bonus from it.

1 hour ago, Guest Groundsel said:

--- Gems. Does the 200 Strength gem provide better survivability than the haste or versatility gems do? At this stage I don't really care about doing damage, just being able to soak it.

No. You can stick to your Haste/Vers gems.

[Guest Migol]

Anything on trinkets?   I got all but the ravaged seed  pod from the first boss in n emerald nightmare this week (was a good week)...right now I'm going with the Xavius grotesque statue (warforged w/socket + speed, huzzzah!) that gives stacking mitigation, and the darkmoon Immortality deck that increases armor semi-randomly...confident on the first but I'm not sure on the darkmoon one.

I could chase slimes for versatility instead with the Goblet or have an on use armor+hp every 2 min, but I figure (semi)steady mitigation is probably the way to go for all the fights in that raid...t/f?   Also not sure how to rate Nature's Call...figure 2/3 stats are "low priority" so didn't bid for it.

Finally, is Strength mostly the lowest rated state we can get (from a survival standpoint)?

[Valks 2,373]

23 hours ago, Guest Migol said:

Anything on trinkets? 

We've got this noted down on our "to-do list", but given that raids have just released and with the balance patch just around the corner, it's tough to get it done along with everything else. We'll do our best, but no promises, sorry!

For your trinkets, I'm not sure what advice to give unfortunately. You could check out the WLogs page (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#class=Paladin&spec=Protection&metric=ehrps) and take a look at the trinkets most used by Prot Paladin tanks based on those with the best "survivability rating". 

It's not perfect, but it's a start perhaps.

Yes, strength is the lowest.

[Valks 2,373]

Generic comment being mass posted over the comments threads guys.

We are aware of the changes and our writers are working hard to update the guides to suit what has changed. Currently, there is a lot of work still to be done and it's unlikely that every guide will be up-to-date immediately. Expect a flood of updates over the coming days that will answer all of your questions about what is now best after X change, in time for the reset next week.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

[Guest Migol]

Shouldn't Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus be in the discussion for legendaries too?   It seems like a good one for tank swap fights, and at minimum would activate after each bubble-immune use, particularly if you use the final stand as an oh @%*^ maneuver at the end of a fight like ursoc.  

Not sure if you could get frequent use of it on ursoc between roars/charges and overwhelm stacks, I'd have to look at the timing (amazing if it would!), but still would be nice after you self bubble or receive a healer BoP the moment after you Rend.

[Valks 2,373]

14 hours ago, Guest Migol said:

Shouldn't Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus be in the discussion for legendaries too?   It seems like a good one for tank swap fights, and at minimum would activate after each bubble-immune use, particularly if you use the final stand as an oh @%*^ maneuver at the end of a fight like ursoc.  

Not sure if you could get frequent use of it on ursoc between roars/charges and overwhelm stacks, I'd have to look at the timing (amazing if it would!), but still would be nice after you self bubble or receive a healer BoP the moment after you Rend.

I imagine that the lack of bleed tank swaps in the current raid makes it a possibility. I feel like, given how poor the stats are, this would be a lot closer than a simple weigh-up. 

Will pass it on and see if we can get a more in-depth analysis, because I'm not sure the possibility of the shield is better than having a neck with actually decent stats.

[Guest PentaKim]

On 30/8/2016 at 10:10 PM, PatrickHenry said:

Crit for protection?  

Crit gives Parry, and crit on Judgment decreases the cooldown on your SotR