Jump to content
FORUMS
Damien

Demonology Warlock 7.3

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Asmaidos said:

Are you sure? From my experience in todays raid single target dmg is better with Demonic Caling and Improved Dreadstalkers...

 

100% sure, provided you're still using class trinket & 4-set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Furty said:

100% sure, provided you're still using class trinket & 4-set.

Do you think there is a difference between mytic or heroic class trinket in terms of rotation? There might be a certain iLvL at which the rotation changes to not using Dreadstalkers?

 

Additional question: Why didn't the mention the change in the recent patchnotes?

Edited by Asmaidos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Furty, thanks for the guide!

I had one question though for clarification re: Tier 4 talents. On the Builds and Talents section it has Power Trip as the go-to talent, but in the Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities section it says Power Trip is inferior to HoD and Soul Harvest in all scenarios. Is it more that PT is better w/ 4pc + Fragment, but otherwise is inferior to the others?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Asmaidos said:

Do you think there is a difference between mytic or heroic class trinket in terms of rotation? There might be a certain iLvL at which the rotation changes to not using Dreadstalkers?

 

Additional question: Why didn't the mention the change in the recent patchnotes?

Nope, any level of class trinket should do it. Uncertain why it wasn't mentioned; Blizzard as a company has had repeated issues with transparency.

10 hours ago, klhFrenchy said:

Hi Furty, thanks for the guide!

I had one question though for clarification re: Tier 4 talents. On the Builds and Talents section it has Power Trip as the go-to talent, but in the Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities section it says Power Trip is inferior to HoD and Soul Harvest in all scenarios. Is it more that PT is better w/ 4pc + Fragment, but otherwise is inferior to the others?

Yeah that's correct. Sincerest apologies if there's a few confusing sections like that, because a lot of the pre-patch stuff involving the 4-piece + fragment is basically the exact opposite of what you do without said items, or in Legion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Sin

How do Demo warlocks compare in Legion in raids and dungeons. I want to raid on my demo lock but if the damage done is abysmal then I would like to know before I jump into this. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest confused power trip

There appears to be contradictory information between the talent page and the rotation page. On the talent page it says power trip is best 1-2 targets however when you move to tier 4 talents on the rotation page it says power trip is worse in all situations. Some clarification would be nice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/30/2016 at 5:08 PM, Guest Sin said:

How do Demo warlocks compare in Legion in raids and dungeons. I want to raid on my demo lock but if the damage done is abysmal then I would like to know before I jump into this. Thank you.

Looking pretty weak on Beta at 110 currently.

12 hours ago, Guest confused power trip said:

There appears to be contradictory information between the talent page and the rotation page. On the talent page it says power trip is best 1-2 targets however when you move to tier 4 talents on the rotation page it says power trip is worse in all situations. Some clarification would be nice

Talents page is referring to the T18 4P bonus build. On the rotation page there is a section addressing that build where it also tells you to disregard everything else below that section on the rotation page. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Arende

With the latest 4set nerf down to 2%, is it worth breaking this bonus in favor of more haste+ilvl ? Speaking about 720(2/2)  tier chest vs. 741(2/2) non-tier chest with more haste+crit and hence replacing the second weakest of the set (i guess i have spare haste hands), or is this 2% proc chance still better option overall ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tonid

Has anyone figured out yet how to make a weak aura for demonic empowerment? It's not a problem to track the felguard (aura target = pet), but the dreadstalkers and imps are much more troublesome for me (I tried "Specific Unit" as a target, but it doesn't show for dreadstalkers, probably because they are regarded as guardians, not regular npcs)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/1/2016 at 9:25 AM, Guest Arende said:

With the latest 4set nerf down to 2%, is it worth breaking this bonus in favor of more haste+ilvl ? Speaking about 720(2/2)  tier chest vs. 741(2/2) non-tier chest with more haste+crit and hence replacing the second weakest of the set (i guess i have spare haste hands), or is this 2% proc chance still better option overall ? 

Stick with the set bonus.

On 8/1/2016 at 5:30 PM, Guest tonid said:

Has anyone figured out yet how to make a weak aura for demonic empowerment? It's not a problem to track the felguard (aura target = pet), but the dreadstalkers and imps are much more troublesome for me (I tried "Specific Unit" as a target, but it doesn't show for dreadstalkers, probably because they are regarded as guardians, not regular npcs)...

pastebin.com/u/furty - I've posted a Demon Tracker which automatically changes color if active demons are empowered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Question for castbar

The Demontracker is awsome, but I think i will build a smaller version, it doesn't fit my UI completely.

@FurtyWhich Castbar Addon do you use, and which aura tracker (on the target)? I have imported  your elvui legion profile and had no castbar and no aura tracker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/4/2016 at 7:32 AM, Guest Question for castbar said:

The Demontracker is awsome, but I think i will build a smaller version, it doesn't fit my UI completely.

@FurtyWhich Castbar Addon do you use, and which aura tracker (on the target)? I have imported  your elvui legion profile and had no castbar and no aura tracker.

I use Gnosis for castbars and WeakAuras for tracking stuff. Probably also going to use Gnosis for tracking my DoTs come Legion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest Guest

"Shadowflame is an instant cast ability with 3 charges."

it's 2 charges

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Deacaeca

Doom is not a tick anymore. It only does damage after it expires.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Münze

Doom is dot that ticks, normally with expiring. If you recast doom before it expires, it ticks and then drops after the expire time, otherwise a talent that casts doom on all targets of hand of guldan would make no sense, it would prevent doom from doing dmg ...

 

I have used the legion-dev branch of simcraft to simulate my wl, choose trinkets and talents for hecticAddCleave Fight (Archimonde). Simcraft gives an example rotation and from the actionlist you could reed that they only cast Demonic Empowerment when you have at least 5 Imps that are not empowered (or the last empowerment is over, after 15sec).

The Rotation then would be:

HoG, SB, HoG, SB, HoG, DE, SB, HoG, SB, HoG, SB, HoG, DE, SB .... (if you have at least 5 Imps after 3 HoG casts)

I cannot specify if this is correct, but my feeling is that I had slightly more imps out.

Can you say something to that issue @Furty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hyper

After reading over the Demonology warlock section, I would like to comment on a few things. I mean no disrespect to the poster, but some of this information just isn't true. The talents especially. I played Demo lock exclusively on the Beta, to include raiding and all that. I've tried out all the talents, and rotations. I'll start with the talents:

Tier 1: Shadowflame is the best option. You CAN'T maintain 3 stacks, period. It's an 8s dot with a 14s CD. If you cast your second one at 7s into the Dot, the CD will reset with 1s left on the dot, but won't be available for the third. You can only get it to 3 stacks, not maintain it there. If you want to optimize DPS, save up 2 charges and build up to stacks. However even just casting it normally is a DPS boost over the others. Shadow Inspiration isn't bad, and if you don't want the added spell it's a good options, but SF is the best option. Demonic Calling is bad, period. The ONLY time it becomes viable, is if you use your legendary item that makes your dreadstalkers refund 2 shard, and even then only casting dreadstalkers when this talent procs to generate shards. 

 

Tier 2: Impending doom is ONLY decent if you're also using hand of doom, and facing a large group where you can get more imps when doom goes off, so like every 17s or so. Even then, implosion is still better. Improved Dreadstalkers is once again a bad choice as you shouldn't be casting dreadstalkers unless you have the legendary for it. Implosion is AMAZING. Even single target the damage is by a very large margin the highest out of all possible choices here. There's a delay between casting Hand of Gul'dan, and when the imps spawn. In that time, cast Implosion to clear out your old imps, and then the new imps will come out. It's actually really simple, and very good damage output both single target and AOE.

 

Tier 3: I agree that in most instances, Demon Skin is the best option here. 

 

Tier 4: Hand of Doom is the ONLY option here, point blank. You have to cast it HoG regardless, and having it also reapply doom is amazing. Even on single target, it saves you a lot of global CD's, and is vastly worth it, over a 50% chance to generate 1 shard when casting DE. Against multiple targets, like pretty much all encounters, it's even better. The poster referenced that Power Trip was better because of the 4pc and trinket, however neither has any impact on this. If anything HoD promotes more liberal use of HoG and thus more trinket procs.

 

Tier 5: All the options are good. I prefer burning rush, but that's just personal preference. 

 

Tier 6: Grimoire of Synergy is the best choice here, Service isn't bad, but costs another SS, and GCD, and doesn't make up for it.

 

Tier 7: Demonbolt should be the default option here. Soul Conduit is underpowered at the moment. Not bad, but can't keep up with the other options. Demonbolt is a good option, especially with the 4pc and trinket providing more demons. Unlike what the poster said with the 4pc and trinket helping Soul Conduit. Summon Darkglare isn't bad, but it's highly situational. You need a large amount of clumped up mobs for it to be more viable than demonbolt. Not that the damage is bad, but adding another GCD to an ability that uses a shard rather than generates a shard, and only targets mobs effected by doom (so basically requiring HoD and clumped targets to be effective) requires a lot of targets for it's burst, loss of a GCD, and use of a shard to make up for the added damage DB provides over SD in filler.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/11/2016 at 2:55 PM, lockish said:

So is the guide still current? Is demo still the optimal choice right now for raiding?

Yep.

On 8/12/2016 at 0:32 PM, Guest Hyper said:

Tier 1: Shadowflame is the best option.

Tier 2: Impending doom is ONLY decent if you're also using hand of doom, and facing a large group where you can get more imps when doom goes off, so like every 17s or so. Even then, implosion is still better. Improved Dreadstalkers is once again a bad choice as you shouldn't be casting dreadstalkers unless you have the legendary for it. Implosion is AMAZING.

Tier 4: Hand of Doom is the ONLY option here, point blank. You have to cast it HoG regardless, and having it also reapply doom is amazing. Even on single target, it saves you a lot of global CD's, and is vastly worth it, over a 50% chance to generate 1 shard when casting DE.

Tier 5: All the options are good. I prefer burning rush, but that's just personal preference. 

Tier 6: Grimoire of Synergy is the best choice here, Service isn't bad, but costs another SS, and GCD, and doesn't make up for it.

Tier 7: Demonbolt should be the default option here. Soul Conduit is underpowered at the moment. Not bad, but can't keep up with the other options. Demonbolt is a good option, especially with the 4pc and trinket providing more demons. Unlike what the poster said with the 4pc and trinket helping Soul Conduit. Summon Darkglare isn't bad, but it's highly situational. You need a large amount of clumped up mobs for it to be more viable than demonbolt. Not that the damage is bad, but adding another GCD to an ability that uses a shard rather than generates a shard, and only targets mobs effected by doom (so basically requiring HoD and clumped targets to be effective) requires a lot of targets for it's burst, loss of a GCD, and use of a shard to make up for the added damage DB provides over SD in filler.

Hey - respect for typing all this out but most of it is wrong. Shadowflame is pretty garbage for the exact reasons you later cite (lack of globals). It is also tricky to use correctly and even when perfectly utilized doesn't scrape parity with its brethren (in pre-patch & Legion). Implosion is only good on extremely fast kills currently where the extra ring damage would outweigh actual meaningful damage, or on a fight like Xhulhorac where you can cheese a bit. Synergy is also pretty mediocre regardless of the length of kill (ring damage + predictable nature of GoServ pulls it ahead). I find it pretty easy to sneak in Doom casts when I'm moving but Doom is such a low priority currently that Hand of Doom is a bit wasteful. I find it's a good talent for new/inexperienced players whereas Power Trip is much better for people who know how to play. DB & SC are essentially equal, as it says.

Again I appreciate the level of detail but your logic is really inconsistent - some talents you're suggesting require heavy GCD investment while others you decry for that same reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely disagree with you guys saying a weakness is lack of sustained cleave/AOE. Not true. I would say demo is strongest against 2-3 consistent targets like like Iron Maidens and if its more then that then they dominate because of implosion. I do agree with lack of single target burst and bad target switching but

  • Weak sustained AoE
  • Very inefficient at cleave and AoE

I would re evaluate that. They have amazing sustained AOE and strong cleave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hyper
7 hours ago, Furty said:

Yep.

Hey - respect for typing all this out but most of it is wrong. Shadowflame is pretty garbage for the exact reasons you later cite (lack of globals). It is also tricky to use correctly and even when perfectly utilized doesn't scrape parity with its brethren (in pre-patch & Legion). Implosion is only good on extremely fast kills currently where the extra ring damage would outweigh actual meaningful damage, or on a fight like Xhulhorac where you can cheese a bit. Synergy is also pretty mediocre regardless of the length of kill (ring damage + predictable nature of GoServ pulls it ahead). I find it pretty easy to sneak in Doom casts when I'm moving but Doom is such a low priority currently that Hand of Doom is a bit wasteful. I find it's a good talent for new/inexperienced players whereas Power Trip is much better for people who know how to play. DB & SC are essentially equal, as it says.

Again I appreciate the level of detail but your logic is really inconsistent - some talents you're suggesting require heavy GCD investment while others you decry for that same reason. 

Thank you for the response. I'm sorry that you didn't understand it, but not everything is worth wasting a GCD that can be much better spent in other area's. Shadowflame is only garbage if you're just not casting it. Dreadstalkers aren't worth casting short from legendary items, they're very clearly a dps loss. Shadow Inspiration makes SB or DB instant when you cast DE, so you've got Shadowflame (100%sp+140%sp) vs (80%sp * 1.2 per pet) For the damage to overtake it, assuming you don't take the 'best option' per this guide, which makes Shadowflame clearly at least 3x better even if you don't do it well.

Tier 2 is equally as straight forward. Keeping it simple on single target, Impending doom is 1 imp every 15s ish, Improved Dreadstalkers is 2 if you cast a bad spell. After just testing, my Wild Imps are doing around 6.1k dps each over 12s, casting Implosion does 250k damage on an average hit. That's about 73k vs 250k. With extra imps, that's 146k vs 250k, still not close. That's assuming to pop it instantly. Even if you use it with 5s left on it, you've still got 43k, so the reality of it is 293k vs 146k. 

Doom dealing 500%sp shouldn't be a low priority at all, for a single GCD, or better yet, not require casting at all. That's huge. Saving a GCD, which can be used to cast a spell that would generate a share, beats a 50% to generate a shard. 

Logic is only inconsistent if you can't follow it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Vike said:

I completely disagree with you guys saying a weakness is lack of sustained cleave/AOE. Not true. I would say demo is strongest against 2-3 consistent targets like like Iron Maidens and if its more then that then they dominate because of implosion. I do agree with lack of single target burst and bad target switching but

  • Weak sustained AoE
  • Very inefficient at cleave and AoE

I would re evaluate that. They have amazing sustained AOE and strong cleave.

It's weaker than Destruction and Affliction at both of those roles, which makes it weak. Efficiency of cleave means you don't lose single target damage, i.e. Wreak Havoc.

1 hour ago, Guest Hyper said:

Thank you for the response. I'm sorry that you didn't understand it, but not everything is worth wasting a GCD that can be much better spent in other area's. Shadowflame is only garbage if you're just not casting it. Dreadstalkers aren't worth casting short from legendary items, they're very clearly a dps loss. Shadow Inspiration makes SB or DB instant when you cast DE, so you've got Shadowflame (100%sp+140%sp) vs (80%sp * 1.2 per pet) For the damage to overtake it, assuming you don't take the 'best option' per this guide, which makes Shadowflame clearly at least 3x better even if you don't do it well.

Tier 2 is equally as straight forward. Keeping it simple on single target, Impending doom is 1 imp every 15s ish, Improved Dreadstalkers is 2 if you cast a bad spell. After just testing, my Wild Imps are doing around 6.1k dps each over 12s, casting Implosion does 250k damage on an average hit. That's about 73k vs 250k. With extra imps, that's 146k vs 250k, still not close. That's assuming to pop it instantly. Even if you use it with 5s left on it, you've still got 43k, so the reality of it is 293k vs 146k. 

Doom dealing 500%sp shouldn't be a low priority at all, for a single GCD, or better yet, not require casting at all. That's huge. Saving a GCD, which can be used to cast a spell that would generate a share, beats a 50% to generate a shard. 

Logic is only inconsistent if you can't follow it.

As I explained, the damage isn't the only factor. It takes up a GCD which has other value and therefore you have to look at the damage delta. The same goes for Implosion, as imps have other value than just straight up damage, particularly when using the 4-set. You're welcome to bring the rest of the discussion to the forum, but it won't be updated here as it is incorrect. I can understand how an inexperienced player might jump to those conclusions though :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Still worth?

Is demonology still the spec to go with if you don't have the class trinket and 4 piece set bonus?  Will affliction not be better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Guest Still worth? said:

Is demonology still the spec to go with if you don't have the class trinket and 4 piece set bonus?  Will affliction not be better?

Gauging spec power level with random assortments of non-raid gear is difficult, but best guess is there is more parity between the specializations before 4-set & class trinket. Affliction does rely on the class trinket heavily as well, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest prophet001

 

Quote

 

3.8. Tier 4 Talents

Hand of Doom IconHand of Doom outscales Soul Harvest IconSoul Harvest once there are 2 or more stacked targets for the majority of the encounter. Power Trip IconPower Trip is inferior to both talents in all situations.

 

 

Did you mean to  say "superior"? You recommend we take that talent for both general use and raid environments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Felokahn

Hi furty,

I've heard the name and been referred to this site by some Guildies of mine. My questions don't really involve anything in regards to these guides. I'll just be blunt. What do you think of warlocks?  During HFC I reigned supreme over my guild whether I was the aoe/cleave king as destro or the single target destroyer as affliction. There was not one encounter where locks were bad. All I've seen lately are Nerfs. All I have heard and read is that warlocks are being driven into the ground. With you being one of the top players I just want your perspective on our class.  I've played locks for 12 years and now that this amazing expac is coming out i feel like we are getting destroyed. I've actually been debating class changing from the class I love. Please let me know what you think. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Staff
      Save up to 65% on pets and mounts during the spring sale that lasts through April 8. There's a Spring Supreme Pet Pack with 17 pets, and more!
      (Source)
      Spring showers bring April flowers, and new deals are blooming! Freshen up your collection and savor sweet savings during the World of Warcraft® Spring Sale through April 8.1
      The Spring Supreme Pet Pack2 is raining cats, dogs, and more! Throw an adorable pet party by inviting all 17 World of Warcraft pets in the Battle.net® shop to your collection for up to 65% off!
      Alterac Brew-Pup Anima Wyrmling Argi Blinky Blossoming Ancient Brightpaw Cinder Kitten Daisy Dread Hatchling Lil'Ragnaros Lil' Ursoc Lucky Quilen Cub Shadow Soul of the Aspects Twilight Whomper Murkastrasza If you already have one or more pets from The Spring Supreme Pet Pack, the pack's price will automatically adjust to reflect only the missing pets.
      Get Your Pets
      You can also swim through the skies atop the Wondrous Wavewhisker flying mount and command a pair of brutal beasts with The Mighty Kodo Pack—featuring the Armor Siege Kodo ground mount and Crushhoof pet—both are 50% off during the sale.
      1Offers end on April 8, 2024. Mounts, pets, and packs listed are not available in WoW Classic progression games.
      2Pet Bundle is only available on the webshop, not the in-game store.
    • By Staff
      Executive Producer Holly Longdale teased some upcoming experimental PvE-focused content that Blizzard will soon reveal to the community.
      It appears that Plunderstorm isn't the only new mode Blizzard plans to add to WoW this year.
      Holly Longdale today teased an upcoming PvE-oriented event that will soon be revealed to us. Holly might be talking about the "Timerunning Pandamonium," expected in Patch 10.2.7.
      (Source)
      Greetings Citizens of Azeroth,
      It’s been great seeing so many players taking the plunge into Plunderstorm and we’ve loved seeing all of the stories and feedback as this experimental event evolves. It will be exciting to see some of the community content creators going head-to-head as duos during the Plunderstorm Creator Royale on March 30!  This isn’t the end of the things we want to try in World of Warcraft, however, and we have more in store we can’t wait to show you.
      Dragonflight Season 4 is in route as testing begins on the PTR and we’ll have more news to share soon™ on the next experiment we have up our sleeves. We hope those of you who are looking for PvE focused content will enjoy what we’re planning, all while we continue to press forward on development of our next expansion for World of Warcraft— The War Within.
      We can’t wait to share with you all the many things the team has been hard at work on.
      With gratitude and excitement for what we’ll do together next,
      Holly Longdale
    • By Stan
      Blizzard just pushed an encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build to the WoW Dev 3 CDN branch.
      WoW Dev 3 has been updated from 10.2.6.53840 to 10.2.7.53954. The build is encrypted and we can't datamine it.
      Placeholder for tweet 1773384989314298365 13 days ago, we saw the very first encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build on a different branch (WoW Vendor 2).
      Placeholder for tweet 1768106695425700174 According to the 2024 roadmap, Patch 10.2.7, dubbed Dark Heart, is set to introduce new features such as Timerunning Pandamonium, Harbinger Quests, Troll & Draenei Heritage Armor, and a new holiday event.

    • By Stan
      We've looked at the Mythic+ Tier List for the first time in Patch 10.2.6!
      DISCLAIMER
      The following post is based on data from U.GG. Therefore, the data presented here may differ from Petko's Mythic Tier Lists maintained on our site.
      How the Data is Calculated
      U.GG's tier list is created by evaluating damage and healing scores from the very best players and factoring in the frequency of each spec's appearances in the highest rankings of the current Mythic+ season. The tier list of each spec is determined by its effectiveness and prevalence at the highest levels of Mythic+ play.
      Mythic+ Tier List for Dragonflight Season 3 Week 20
      This week's affixes are: Tyrannical, Afflicted, and Bolstering.
      Healer Tier List
      S-Tier Mistweaver Monk A-Tier: Restoration Druid Discipline Priest Holy Priest B-Tier: Restoration Shaman Preservation Evoker C-Tier: Holy Paladin
      Tank Tier List
      S-Tier: Vengeance Demon Hunter A-Tier: Protection Paladin Blood Death Knight B-Tier: Guardian Druid Brewmaster Monk C-Tier Protection Warrior (down from B-Tier)
      DPS Tier List
      S-Tier: Retribution Paladin Shadow Priest (up from A-Tier) Fire Mage A-Tier: Outlaw Rogue Havoc Demon Hunter (down from S-Tier) Augmentation Evoker Demonology Warlock Fury Warrior Beast Mastery Hunter Balance Druid Destruction Warlock Arms Warrior (up from B-Tier) B-Tier: Windwalker Monk (down from A-Tier) Elemental Shaman Unholy Death Knight Enhancement Shaman Frost Mage Survival Hunter Frost Death Knight Marksmanship Hunter (up from C-Tier) Feral Druid  C-Tier: Arcane Mage (down from B-Tier) Devastation Evoker Subtlety Rogue Affliction Warlock Assassination Rogue
    • By Staff
      Here's a video explaining all Plunderstorm skills under 10 minutes.
      Whether you're a seasoned player in need of a quick refresher on what Plunderstorm brings to the table, or you're new to the game mode altogether, this video has you covered. It breaks down each ability in detail, thanks to BBB.
×
×
  • Create New...