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Frost Death Knight 7.3

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Guest Esploratore

No idea at all about my previous question, as in if at 30% + crit, 20% haste and 31% mastery I should enchant\gem haste or start going for mastery?
 

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Guest Usernr333
14 hours ago, Guest Guestborn said:

Was wondering if there as been any insight on the tier gear coming in The Nighthold. I know that isn't for awhile but looking at the set bonuses for most dps I can't help but feel frost dk yet again got bent over and fucked

Yeah it's not like i have any downtimes so i need more runepower or more HB proccs. i want more power behind my skills, everytime on heroism everyone else is going way ahead of me. I want my tier 18 4 piece boni back. ^^

 

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On 19/10/2016 at 3:12 PM, TalonShadowsong said:

Simcraft is using a rotation that will basically use Frostscythe as soon as it is available, regardless of KM procs, resulting in a very high volume of uses vs obliterate. In turn, this is why it suggests Mastery as our primary stat to stack up.

Disagree on this. Looking at SimCraft suggested rotation, FS will be used prior to Obliterate if you have a KM proc OR if you're facing 4 or more enemies, assuming you didn't chose BoS as talent.

If you're facing one enemy, no KM proc, and you have enough runes for obliterate, to it clearly says "go for Obliterate!".

actions.core+=/frostscythe,if=!talent.breath_of_sindragosa.enabled&(buff.killing_machine.react|spell_targets.frostscythe>=4)

actions.core+=/obliterate,if=buff.killing_machine.react

actions.core+=/obliterate

actions.core+=/remorseless_winter

actions.core+=/frostscythe,if=talent.frozen_pulse.enabled

Edited by Boogyness

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3 hours ago, Boogyness said:

Disagree on this. Looking at SimCraft suggested rotation, FS will be used prior to Obliterate if you have a KM proc OR if you're facing 4 or more enemies, assuming you didn't chose BoS as talent.

If you're facing one enemy, no KM proc, and you have enough runes for obliterate, to it clearly says "go for Obliterate!".

actions.core+=/frostscythe,if=!talent.breath_of_sindragosa.enabled&(buff.killing_machine.react|spell_targets.frostscythe>=4)

actions.core+=/obliterate,if=buff.killing_machine.react

actions.core+=/obliterate

actions.core+=/remorseless_winter

actions.core+=/frostscythe,if=talent.frozen_pulse.enabled

Well, im glad my SimCraft keeps giving me 63 Frostscythes and 13 Obliterates when that is hardly likely in a single target scenario.

Frankly, this just isn't entirely optimal in all cases. Something about the Sim rotation isn't correct.
However, with the changes that are currently up in the PTR, we will be seeing a slight paradigm shift to compensate for the newfound power of Obliterate, at least in this tier.

Edited by TalonShadowsong

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If i had to guess why you had more frostscythes it was probably to waste a single rune when you can't obliterate  in order to activate frozen pulse.

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Guest Zeryphim

Have you guys tried any alternative build set ups?  I ask as I have been working on a build since I started playing DK again that is quite contrasting to this and I have been testing it extensively over the past month and find that it is fairly competitive with the build presented here, At least around the 840 Ilvl with 28% crit and 17% haste atm. I have been trying to get a guildy with a higher Ilvl on his DK and 30% crit and 20% haste to test it as well but He has shelved his DK for a hunter right now.

In my own tests I have found my build bursts 5-10k less( Depending on buggy interaction with Glacial Advance ) than this one but I sustain 12k - 17k higher. My build utilizes

Shattering Blows

Horn of Winter

Ice Cap
Runic Attenuation

Glacial advance.  ( the other talents don't really vary much from the ones suggested in the posted build if at all.

My build focuses on preventing as much down time from using abilities as much as possible. HoW for times when you don;t have enough RP to use Frost Strike but lack Runes to gen more.

The priorities for the most part are similar,  You now use KM on Obliterate since there is no Frost Scythe on this build. Other than that there really isn't much change.

Opening goes:  Pillar, Glacial Adv., Remorseless, Ob, Ob, HoW, Ob, Howling Blast only if you have Rime, Frost Strike to dump RP.

In all my tests over this month this build and the one presented here on ICY veins has been very neck and neck and would like to see how they compare are higher Ilvl's release.
 

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4 hours ago, Eghtas said:

If i had to guess why you had more frostscythes it was probably to waste a single rune when you can't obliterate  in order to activate frozen pulse.

That was my guess too. Verified by switching from Frozen Pulse to Horn of Winter in SimCraft

Simcraft with Frozen Pulse; 48 FS / 19 Obliterate.

Simcraft with Horn of winter: 32 FS / 34 Obliterate.

However this resulted in 6% loss of DPS (I guess I should have changed other talents to compensate, but it was just for the purpose of the test).

13 hours ago, TalonShadowsong said:

Frankly, this just isn't entirely optimal in all cases. Something about the Sim rotation isn't correct.

Agreed. 

actions.core+=/frostscythe,if=talent.frozen_pulse.enabled

Should be changed with something smarter taking into account Obliterate will be available soon (GCD?) like

actions.core+=/frostscythe,if=talent.frozen_pulse.enabled&(rune.count=1&rune.charge>gcd)

(not sure rune count is useful here, it's just to illustrate what's in my mind). However it's currently not possible to track rune charge in SimCraft.

edit: with 7.1 patch incoming , and Frozen Pulse/Obliterate modification, I'm not  sure the single target rotation will keep Frost Scythe outside KM Proc. Wait & See.

Edited by Boogyness

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Based on my current napkin math, it will require 5 stacks of Razorice (duh) and 47% mastery for KM Frostscythe to break even, in terms of raw Attack Power % output in comparison to the new obliterate.
Since we have Haste and Critical Strike values to maintain, achieving 47% mastery is... tough. I don't believe that relying on Angerboda Mastery procs to push you over the edge to be reliable enough throughout an encounter to want to take Frostscythe when its 100% single target.
I'm still running some sims to see what stat scaling/ratios for the new scaling will yield the best outcome. So far, I have only really achieved a
I have achieved some ideal world sims, with pipe-dream stats such as 25% Haste, 25% Critical, 50% Mastery in a build that still uses Obliterate and RA and it simmed (via AskMrRobot) at 400k single target DPS. Since those stats are actually feasible in this tier, to the best that I can discern at this time, we won't quite make it there.

Overwritten Stats for 25% Haste, 25% Critical, 31% Mastery, 11% Versatility:

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/d66e8ad80c8a48089092853a525a021e

A more realistic gearing scheme, if you want to endless grind you luck on Mythic+'s:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/1b31833760b54994bbeaec1b7d83ab3b

And this is the gear I current use on live and how it will perform without KM in the mix. Its a big change folks, hope we all understand that:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/263c211ae232480fb8941310f9162a49

As a reference, here is a link to my logs for the current tier (rip Nythendra) with my above current gear, etc.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/18207565/latest

So the build I have now, does alright it seems, but with that changing with 7.1 today, we have a lot more potential that is reached by seeking different avenues apparently.

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I tried your current build with a slightly modified Machine Gun rotation to account for frozen pulse firing when there are <2 runes (instead of <1/0) and that pulls ahead of the rotation you're using in that run (switched to Avalanche from Icecap too), it's about 9K higher for single target:

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/d43db95ce22343bf91393c3042bcdac9

The change from Icecap to Avalanche accounted for ~1K of the DPS increase, so the rotation change accounted for the other ~8K.

Edited by RandomBlue

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Guest Esploratore

I don't really understand how much haste we're supposed to get: I and 2 other frost dks in my guild have very different haste values: 24%, 20%, 11% and we all get the same problem: every so often, who more and who less we get a moment with no runes and no runic power, and it causes icy talons to fall.

 

I know in the machine gun rotation atm it says haste has no cap, but is what we are experiencing normal or are we all lacking haste, or are we doing it wrong?

Ideally, how much haste would I want to get with 855 item level?
 

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Guest Nakuii

Hey guys, is the new stat pot now the best potion u can use as frost dk or still old war?

 

Greetz

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Guest Usernr333

So far i do like 7.1, i got over 400k dps on several m+ bosses where i had like 340k dps before. I still use machine gun.

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Guest Pscyllen

All you guys did for 7.1 was fix a tool tip? The machine gun rotation is no longer the best for single target with the new obliterate. If you swap frost scythe (which now no longer even compares to oblit single target) for runic attenuation, you can easily maintain 100% uptime on frozen pulse. I'm doing about 280k with frostscythe single target, and 300k with runic attenuation; this should be rectified asap.

 

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19 hours ago, Guest Nakuii said:

Hey guys, is the new stat pot now the best potion u can use as frost dk or still old war?

 

Greetz

I'm pretty sure Old War will still be the best pot to take.

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Big change in 7.1. I dropped fs due to 50% buff on hb. Remorseless winter and howling blast is sufficient enough for an aoe. With the massive 20% buff on oblit, its literally doing more damage than fs with km procs at this stage. I managed to do 305k dps on heroic nythendra with an ilvl of 869. My current stats weight is 30 crit 15 haste and 32 mastery. I get the rest of my haste from an 840 ilvl chrono shard and i prepot with the new 2500 stats potion. Uptime on icy talons is at 100% as well which helps alot. Current dps talent build is:

Icy talons, frozen pulse, avalanche, runic attenuation and obliteration. 

I am yet to try out ice cap and will be targeting that 20 haste mark. At the momment, im happy and comfortable with the changes on frost.

Edited by Kaosgate

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Guest anon
52 minutes ago, Ulathar said:

Wait... what? Now its Versatility > all others for Frost? Did i miss something?

 

 feels like it changes everyday .

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Guest Ulaire

With changes obli > fs now. Only way to scale obli is versa, so ı think thats why they put versa first. But this make me feel physical dps now not frosty :(

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11 hours ago, Ulathar said:

Wait... what? Now its Versatility > all others for Frost? Did i miss something?

 

I don't believe this is true. DK stat priority is also very dependent on what your current stats are, best bet is to sim craft your own stat priority.

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I also doubt that versa is the way to go. Also i am not able to flip out my gear every day because of other stat priorities -.-.

Doing 280-330k dps sustained on singletarget now in EN normal depending on the boss, topping the meters in my guild every time by a decent amount, that must be enough...

May current GS ist 861 with a level 27 Artefaktweapon. Stats are:

22 % Crit,
27 % Haste (i know, to much haste, need more Crit...),
30% Mastery,
0% Versatility.

Playing the Icecap + RA build with Oblit & FS roation since 7.1. Prior to the patch my maximum sustained ST DPS with shotgunbuild (same gear) was ~250k dps. Although the AoE burst DMG on trash was much, MUCH higher with FSc (sometimes topping 1 Mio DPS afer a big pack) the AoE dmg is still very good with the new build (around 450-600k dps).

Again:

i can't believe that this dmg would increase much more if i would go for versatility instead of mastery or haste or crit...

 

Thanks to the high haste and RA i have a Icy Talons uptime of 100% which results in an insane boost of KM procs and FP procs (FP is about 8-9% of my total dmg on bossfights). And the rotation feels very smouth! No downtimes or wait for runes any more (had this with the Shotgunbuild before) there is always a button to press wich is much more fun to me then waiting for a button to be usable again :).

Oh and did i mention the high absorb amounts thanks to permafrost and the insane high attackspeed? Need almost no heal on EN normal at all compared to the other classes!

Edited by Ulathar

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Guest Usernr333

This is insane, my raid gets angry at me because every week i want another item with my current best stat and another relic.

I can live with the changing statweight but the relics? They dont grew on trees. >_>

Still using machine gun and doing 350k+ single. Maybe with another relics but i have  boots relics 880+ and everything else is way below. I tried RA but its like i have too much recources and dont have time to spend it all.

And wow versatility is best stat now? The one stat i dont have on my whole gear. oO

Below 20% haste frost is so unbearable slow i dont want to get to this. Well lets see what they bring next. It wouldn't surprise me if they reverse some of the buffs. ^^

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For all comments concerning the stat priority, these are actively maintained by one of the prominent theorycrafters from the DK discord. I can't tell you why they have found Vers to be the main stat, but it's what is currently being found as best, at least from what I can see in our notes. If it is that you feel this is wrong, you are welcome to show your own maths and simulations that show why you feel Versatility is not the strongest. 

I'm not trying to be rude, but simply saying "It can't be right" means nothing. Show us why it can't be right.

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On 10/29/2016 at 0:01 AM, Vulgarity said:

For the suggested single-target rotation, I think this needs to be fixed:

Shouldn't you obliterate with KM before you FS again?

This has been fixed, thanks :)

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