Zagam

Warlock Spec Difficulty Poll

How would you rate Warlock specs in terms of difficulty?   57 members have voted

  1. 1. How would you rate Destruction in terms of difficulty?

    • Very Easy - zero to very few mistakes
      10
    • Somewhat Easy - few minor mistakes such as low Rain of Fire uptime
      38
    • Average - few minor mistakes and few critical mistakes
      8
    • Somewhat Hard - many minor mistakes and a few critical mistakes
      1
    • Very Hard - many critical mistakes such as Burning Ember capping
      0
  2. 2. How would you rate Demonology in terms of difficulty?

    • Very Easy - zero to a few minor mistakes
      2
    • Easy - a few minor mistakes such as wasting Soul Fire charges
      8
    • Average - a few minor mistakes and a major mistake here and there
      18
    • Hard - difficulty managing Demonic Fury resource with some spell choice mistakes
      25
    • Very Hard - many critical mistakes such as capping Demonic Fury
      4
  3. 3. How would you rate Affliction in terms of difficulty?

    • Very Easy - DoTs might as well be your second language
      7
    • Easy - might let UA fall off for a second or two
      19
    • Average - might miss a chance to empower your DoTs with a trinket
      21
    • Hard - having a difficult time managing to keep DoT uptimes above 80%
      9
    • Very Hard - poor understanding of what DoTs mean and how they work
      1

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20 posts in this topic

Let me know what you think about the current state of the Warlock specializations!

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Interesting so far...after a day of vote collection, I'll post results. It's coming out almost as I thought it would. Might have to put some more work into the Demo and Aff guides.

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I think the issue, for me at least, is just... coming from either different classes, or from destro, both aff and demo require so much attention to dot durations and multidotting, that they either start falling behind on fight mechanics and die (the supreme dps killer) or have to relax on dps to make sure they're alive to add SOMETHING to the dps charts overall. Demo is a bit easier (read: TONS easier) as far as multidotting, but lord have mercy, trying to not cap demonic fury when trying to remember when to cast everything else is nearly overkill. depending on the fight, i have to mute vent so i can concentrate on what i'm doing.

Also, some guys simply aren't as proficient with macros, keybinds, addons and the like to make it as easy for them as it is for some of you high tenure warlocks.

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I'd say demo can be the most involved with a fairly steep learning curve. Understanding how the spec works is fairly easy, but executing can be difficult. The amount of "resources" to monitor seems much higher through demonic fury, HoG charges, MC stacks and then mana. Compare that to Destro which effectively has two resources to manage, embers and conflag charges, and affliction has two, shards and mana.

It's worth mentioning that on single-target I find all specs very easy to play. The difference in difficulty for me comes from switching to an add or DPSing multiple targets at once or when the mechanics make things chaotic.

This is what goes through my mind while playing Demo mid-fight. Check on HoG charges and their current CD to see how many HoG's I can get off before popping in to Meta. ensure Corr is on the target before going to Meta. Is the target going to live long enough to make Doom worth it? How much DF do I have left now? ToC or SF to burn DF? Spam ToC, run out of DF and end up casting shadow bolt. Check HoG charges and CD time. MC stacks? Cast Soulfire. Shit I'm oom. Life Tap. Corr falling off, check HoG Charges and try to apply 2 stacks. Pop in to Meta, ToC....yadda yadda yadaa. Its definitely manageable though through use of Weakauras I guess, just very involved. Extremely large toolkit. Factor in an entirely different set of spells for AoE with even more options while in Meta.

Compare that to Affliction. Check shard count, monitor dot up-time. Got big procs? SB:SS or manually apply dots. Apply haunt and channel MG. Channel, channel channel (effective "down time") and monitor Affdots and the target's HP and make sure to switch to DS at 20%. The difficulty can come when multi-dotting, which mainly comes from short dot durations. Very addon reliant in my opinion, but once those are in place things become very easy. During busy fight mechanics, channeling MG can be very valuable time to recollect yourself and get your bearings. AoE is very basic with two effective spells being used. Cycling Agony can be used as well if the adds are going to be around for a while.

Destro, same boat. Small tool-kit leads to less decisions to make. Good opportunity for improving output my utilizing Havoc, shadowburn and RoF placement, but failing at those to an extent isn't a loss as much of just not a gain. Improved FnB makes on-demand AoE faceroll. Slight management needed to ensure Backdraft is utilized/not wasted in certain situations. Lining up big spells with procs will be a large gain.

Summary

Demo: Truckload of spells and things to think about. Quite a few places to lose DPS, while not so many obvious places to gain it.

Destro: Few spells to use. Few places to lose DPS with a few places to gain it. Gains can be marginal or huge.

Affl: Small amount of spells to use. DoT tracking is important, but Affdots is awesome. Large DPS losses by ignoring procs and dot empowerment as well as bad up-times. Huge gains by monitoring dot empowerment and well timed Haunts. Very little to think about during a fight by using addons.

Edited by Cruzan

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I Think Affli > Demo >>> Destro

But with UVLS Demo and Affli are quite even in terms of challenge.

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Here are results after one day and assigning 1 point to Very Easy and 5 points to Very Hard, here's how they scale out:

Affliction

Very Easy: 3

Easy: 7

Average: 5

Hard: 3

Very Hard: 1

Demonology

Very Easy: 0

Easy: 2

Average: 5

Hard: 10

Very Hard: 2

Destruction

Very Easy: 3

Easy: 10

Average: 5

Hard: 1

Very Hard: 0

Average Poll Difficulty:

Affliction = [ (3*1) + (7*2) + (5*3) + (3*4) + (1*5) ] / 19 = 2.58

Demonology = [ (0*1) + (2*2) + (5*3) + (10*4) + (2*5) ] / 19 = 3.63

Destruction = [ (3*1) + (10*2) + (5*3) + (1*4) + (0*5) ] /19 = 2.21

So, on average, Demonology is seen as the hardest spec by an entire difficulty level while Destruction and Affliction are seen as fairly easy with minor complications. I completely understand the complexity of Demonology. I'll keep this in mind when modifying the guides to try to simplify things.

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So personally I have the easiest time with Demo and Affliction and the hardest time with destruction (i.e. not really bad play but I have more to nit-pick with my destro play than the other specs).

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I personally dislike Destruction because of Rain of Fire. If you didn't have to keep Rain of Fire up, then I'd be ok. Having to keep it up to do good damage is rather annoying. I might drop Destruction and try to do what I do with Destruction as Affliction (ie, Heroic Primordius).

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I personally enjoy raining down green fiery death on my enemies, but it would be nice if it lasted a little longer.

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Affliction is probably the most boring spec I've ever played. I remember way back last tier when I had to have weakauras to track trinkets...now all it takes is installing affdots and letting it play for you.

Destruction isn't hard, no one has ever said it is, ever. A lot of people fuck up chaos bolt/shadowburn usage because they don't have an addon easily accessible like affdots to help understand exactly when to use it. Weakauras is my best friend. Most people are also skeptical about FaB vs 4 targets, even though its better than the normal rotation for anything over 3. There's also the stigma of 'padding' for destruction, forcing a lot of people to actually lose REAL dps because the PADDING makes them look op. On a fight like megaera, havoc/immolate is beyond a dps gain, esp. if you're lucky enough to have unerring vision and it procs on pull, double 100% crit chance immolate ftw. Add RoF and you roll in the embers, but the dps is hyper inflated by the fact that the damage done to gain the embers is 'padding.' The single target dps to the correct head goes up because of all the embers, but then people get yelled at or called bad for hitting the other head.

We've had the RoF discussion zagam. You know my thoughts. It is entirely better than incinerate in every way. Backdraft is an awful mechanism. If they remove RoF from the rotation for destruction, not only will it severely hurt our 2-5 target dps (which is basically every fight ever), it will also make destruction probably the most boring spec in the game. Imagine an arcane mage that never has to dump their ABarr...Keep dot up -> hit filler -> hit big hitter -> repeat. If they remove RoF from the ST rotation, I probably won't play destro again until next expansion unless they do something to make the spec less boring. Many ways they can go about 'redistributing ember generation,' most of which are terrible. If all they do is nerf RoF and buff incinerate, bye bye.

Demo has some oddities revolving mostly around the aoe system and soulfire vs toc. I can almost empirically say at this point that

1. Manually refreshing corruption isn't a bad thing, you should never go into meta with the SOUL purpose of refreshing corruption via ToC.

2. Soulfire > ToC during meta

3. As long as you aren't molten core capped, you should pool them for use during meta and simply spam shadowbolt outside

Some of these changes aren't reflected in simc yet because I'm lazy, bite me.

Edited by gahhda

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Gahhda 'bout to choke a bitch! <3

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Affliction is probably the most boring spec I've ever played. I remember way back last tier when I had to have weakauras to track trinkets...now all it takes is installing affdots and letting it play for you.

Destruction isn't hard, no one has ever said it is, ever. A lot of people fuck up chaos bolt/shadowburn usage because they don't have an addon easily accessible like affdots to help understand exactly when to use it. Weakauras is my best friend. Most people are also skeptical about FaB vs 4 targets, even though its better than the normal rotation for anything over 3. There's also the stigma of 'padding' for destruction, forcing a lot of people to actually lose REAL dps because the PADDING makes them look op. On a fight like megaera, havoc/immolate is beyond a dps gain, esp. if you're lucky enough to have unerring vision and it procs on pull, double 100% crit chance immolate ftw. Add RoF and you roll in the embers, but the dps is hyper inflated by the fact that the damage done to gain the embers is 'padding.' The single target dps to the correct head goes up because of all the embers, but then people get yelled at or called bad for hitting the other head.

We've had the RoF discussion zagam. You know my thoughts. It is entirely better than incinerate in every way. Backdraft is an awful mechanism. If they remove RoF from the rotation for destruction, not only will it severely hurt our 2-5 target dps (which is basically every fight ever), it will also make destruction probably the most boring spec in the game. Imagine an arcane mage that never has to dump their ABarr...Keep dot up -> hit filler -> hit big hitter -> repeat. If they remove RoF from the ST rotation, I probably won't play destro again until next expansion unless they do something to make the spec less boring. Many ways they can go about 'redistributing ember generation,' most of which are terrible. If all they do is nerf RoF and buff incinerate, bye bye.

Demo has some oddities revolving mostly around the aoe system and soulfire vs toc. I can almost empirically say at this point that

1. Manually refreshing corruption isn't a bad thing, you should never go into meta with the SOUL purpose of refreshing corruption via ToC.

2. Soulfire > ToC during meta

3. As long as you aren't molten core capped, you should pool them for use during meta and simply spam shadowbolt outside

Some of these changes aren't reflected in simc yet because I'm lazy, bite me.

While I agree with most of your statements on demo, I feel that going into meta to refresh corruption is superior to simply refreshing with the manual cast because you using ToC is going to not only add time to your corruption, but also slap a healthy amount of dps in the process. Also, I find that the more excuses I have to be in meta, the less often I miss Unerring procs. Just my two cents.

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While I agree with most of your statements on demo, I feel that going into meta to refresh corruption is superior to simply refreshing with the manual cast because you using ToC is going to not only add time to your corruption, but also slap a healthy amount of dps in the process. Also, I find that the more excuses I have to be in meta, the less often I miss Unerring procs. Just my two cents.

While true, you still have to manage your DF. If you run out and your trinket procs you're going to be in the same boat.

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I also never refresh Corruption via Touch of Chaos for that purpose only. I'm also always buffing my 2nd stack of Shadowflame before I go in. The overall cooldown on 2 charges of Hand of Guldan line up pretty well with the 27 sec duration of Everlasting Affliction Corruption. Every time I go into Meta, I'm buffing Shadowflame AND refreshing Corruption. If I have to manually reapply Corruption, I consider it a mistake during my rotation.

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For Demo my problems beginn when my mana is getting low. I'm not sure when to Lifetap in order to keep mit HoG -> Meta -> Corruption rotation going. Then I often miss to Stack HoG up or Corruption will fall off.

Demo feels a little bit frutratig, because you start with a Good burst and every misstake will cost you some DPS.

For Destro it feels better, because if you line your proccs and CB right you will see your DPS rising alot.

I played affli the whole t14 content so it feels very easy to me.

Thinking about it, maybe Demo fells so uncomfortable because the Destro Fights (Horridon, Tortos, Primordius)

are pushing the dps extremly.

Edited by Ungestuem

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Poll Updated as of 5/31/2013

Destro = 1.95

Demo = 3.23

Affliction = 2.56

Destro

Very Easy = 9

Easy = 23

Average = 5

Hard = 1

Very Hard = 0

Demo

Very Easy = 2

Easy = 6

Average = 14

Hard = 15

Very Hard = 2

Affliction

Very Easy = 5

Easy = 16

Average = 10

Hard = 7

Very Hard = 1

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I'm a non-raider and I refuse to pug random heroics because of abusive "fail everyone except me" behavior. I've never really played Destruction. I just wasn't comfortable with it. That being said, here's my take on affliction and demonology.

Demonology, being something of al "all around" spec, can be a little complicated at times but not overwhelmingly so. My primary complications regarding demonology are:

  • Lack of Rain of Fire. Unless I'm missing something, this gives the spec limited AOE except while in demon form and you can use Immolation Aura.
  • Short Hand of Gul'dan duration. Unless I'm completely missing the point of this ability, I have to stop what I'm doing a LOT to re apply this on the target.
  • This is more my fault and my issue than the spec itself, but the felguard being a dps pet rather than a tank pet makes things a bit harder as well. The felguard, and even wrathguard, can prove surprisingly squishy under the right circumstaces.

I really like Affliction. I might be using the wrong addons (or just not using the right ones) but I do okay with it. An exception is with lots of mobs to deal with, like with Encroaching Storm and Meating Expectations (patrolling packs of thundermaw wolves keep ambushing from behind just as my attention is turned away from there).

I find that when doing Golden Lotus dailies, it's to my benefit to switch spec and minion around to suit each quest. Demonology seems to work better for the standard "Kill x of y trash mobs" due to extra survivability (like against the absolute spell_nature_chainlightning.jpgThunder spam from the thundermaw wolves, uninterruptible and they all keeping casting it at the same time), while against the "boss" mob quests I thrive with affliction and my voidlord, which is pretty much immune to Devastating Arc, making Cracklefang a breeze to tear down with my dots.

I'd say my problems with Affliction include:

  • Remembering when to refresh or re-cast the big three dots, particularly Agony
  • Not using Curse of the Elements enough (I should use it on EVERY mob just to get into the habit of using it)
  • Remembering to use (and when to use) special cooldowns like spell_warlock_demonsoul.jpgDark Soul: Misery

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Results after about a week:

Affliction = 2.57

Very Easy - 7

Easy - 18

Average - 17

Hard - 8

Very Hard - 1

Demonology = 3.31

Very Easy - 2

Easy - 8

Average - 16

Hard - 22

Very Hard - 3

Destruction = 2.01

Very Easy - 9

Easy - 33

Average - 8

Hard - 1

Very Hard - 0

Summary

Destruction = 2.01 (Easy)

Affliction = 2.57 (Easy-Average)

Demonology = 3.31 (Average-Hard)

As we roll into 5.4, I'll adjust the guides appropriately and put more emphasis into Demonology to help get a better understanding of it.

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I'm a non-raider and I refuse to pug random heroics because of abusive "fail everyone except me" behavior. I've never really played Destruction. I just wasn't comfortable with it. That being said, here's my take on affliction and demonology.

Demonology, being something of al "all around" spec, can be a little complicated at times but not overwhelmingly so. My primary complications regarding demonology are:

  • Lack of Rain of Fire. Unless I'm missing something, this gives the spec limited AOE except while in demon form and you can use Immolation Aura.
  • Short Hand of Gul'dan duration. Unless I'm completely missing the point of this ability, I have to stop what I'm doing a LOT to re apply this on the target.
  • This is more my fault and my issue than the spec itself, but the felguard being a dps pet rather than a tank pet makes things a bit harder as well. The felguard, and even wrathguard, can prove surprisingly squishy under the right circumstaces.

I'd say your knowledge of Demonology is extremely limited. Demonology is not the limited AoE spec. It's the spec that specializes in it. Rain of Fire is not necessary for AoE. Demonology Warlocks have Hellfire, Immolation Aura, Hand of Guldan/Shadowflame, Felstorm, Void Ray, Carrion Swarm, and very powerful multi-dotting capabilities.

As for stopping what you're doing to cast Hand of Guldan...that's what all of the specs have. They all have abilties you 'stop what you're doing'...not sure what you mean by that phrase, anyways. Your 'doing' should involve Hand of Guldan, single target or multi-target, as part of your priority rotation.

If you feel your Wrathguard or Felguard is 'squishy,' there are multiple ways to assist it in whatever manner you're using him for. If you're using him to tank during quests, you have the option to use two glyphs: Glyph of Demon Training which gives him 20% more HP and Glyph of Health Funnel which gives you a heal on a 10 sec CD that restores 15% of his HP.

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