Damien

Aggro Discard Warlock Zoo Standard

10 posts in this topic

The demon synergy is getting there. I've been playing with a variant that has no squires or villagers, but Demonwrath. Watching ONOG there's at least one person running Demonfire.

 

Strangely enough, Demonfuse is still being run by nobody. ;)

Edited by mgoetze

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11 hours ago, Guest Xydaine said:

shouldn't that wrathguard be a succubus?

I came here to say the same things ; but in the card swaps he states that the  Fist of jarraxus could be swapped for a succubus but i really think that succubus would fill in the wrathguard's slot better, same cost, same stats but u dont get screwed for it getting wrecked and u get extra discard to trigger your effects, turn 1 malch imp into turn 2 succubus would be a good opening play i think, maybe cycle some cards to get those high value targets.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i would definitely swap 2x wrathguard for 2x succubus in the original decklist.

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21 hours ago, Guest Barebareman said:

I came here to say the same things ; but in the card swaps he states that the  Fist of jarraxus could be swapped for a succubus but i really think that succubus would fill in the wrathguard's slot better, same cost, same stats but u dont get screwed for it getting wrecked and u get extra discard to trigger your effects, turn 1 malch imp into turn 2 succubus would be a good opening play i think, maybe cycle some cards to get those high value targets.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i would definitely swap 2x wrathguard for 2x succubus in the original decklist.

I think the reasoning behind the wrathguard vs. succubus is mainly due to "over-synergy". If every single card in your deck revolves around discards, you reach a point where you'll have games where you simply have nothing to play. You need to have some solid cards that you can play early on that won't affect your hand. If you have the right cards, of course it's amazing, but let's say you don't draw the imp. I just think Succubus can cause situations early where you leave yourself with nothing to play. 

At the heart of this deck, unfortunately, is RNG. Discarding the right cards at the right time. If you turn 2 succubus and discard your turn 3 play, you lose a turn where you are left to play a 1 drop and tap. In a deck with so many points of RNG that COULD go wrong, I think it's important to have that set of cards that are safe to play: Councilman, Imp Gang, Wrathguard. 

You have Defender/Abusive, but you want those for the effect. You don't want to be forced to play them everytime as a safe option.

If you were to swap it, personally I would agree with Sottle's previous recommendation of Fist vs. Succubus.

I just think this is a situation where thinking of the perfect situation is great, but there's plenty of other times where things could go wrong.

My 2 cents, at least!

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My concern isn't exactly Succubus being bad - a great card, really - but rather that Wrathguard is really, really not great. I am also not a fan of Shield Slams for 10.

Blainie is right - this discard theme is all about managing "investment - payoff" scheme. Jam in too much enablers, never draw a payoff card, enjoy losing. Without enablers you still have Demonic Bloodfen Raptor, a weird 3 mana 3/3 and a 1 mana 1/3 that's actually incredible even without card text.

You can always play a "normal" 2-drop instead of either 4/3s - like Dire Wolf Alpha, which is excellent in turning early combat math in your favor.

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17 hours ago, Paracel said:

I am also not a fan of Shield Slams for 10.

Just like I said in a different thread, if the warrior gets a lot of armor, getting Shield Slammed just shortens the game. I don't recall losing a game to zoo after reaching a point where I had 10 armor. 
One of the worst things that can happen to your Wrathguard is him getting Fireballed, especially when playing against tempo mage. It's still early in the game, the mage will have easier time bursting you down and will have an easier time establishing a board, and if they had Flamewaker and/or Mana Wyrm on the board, it is really bad for you.
Wrathguard is fine against control decks as they usually don't have a way to burst you down even if your Wrathguard was dealt like 6 damage. 
It's also important to know when it's safe to play it. Like, it's dangerous to play it against hunter (or basically any class/deck that likes Barnes) before their turn 4, as they could play Barnes that would spawn Ragnaros the Firelord, which would be a problem if it hit your Wrathguard.

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Like many of you mentionned before ; over-synergy can become a problem; after playing a fair amount of games, i ended up not playing my succubus on turn 2 because it would often have me discard something i want to keep, discarding on turn 2 causes you to have little control over our game. which is why i can see wrathguard being a better pick for your two slots. There is the danger of getting bodied by a shield slam or a damage spell, but i think between the two wrathguard will provide you with more stability.

Plus, like it's been said, if you get shield slammed for 10 dmg you probably had already lost anyways. So i think in the end Wrathguard fills in better than succubus does ; but ill have to play with the original decklist and try to see how much better it fares.

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18 hours ago, Guest Barebareman said:

Like many of you mentionned before ; over-synergy can become a problem; after playing a fair amount of games, i ended up not playing my succubus on turn 2 because it would often have me discard something i want to keep, discarding on turn 2 causes you to have little control over our game. which is why i can see wrathguard being a better pick for your two slots. There is the danger of getting bodied by a shield slam or a damage spell, but i think between the two wrathguard will provide you with more stability.

Plus, like it's been said, if you get shield slammed for 10 dmg you probably had already lost anyways. So i think in the end Wrathguard fills in better than succubus does ; but ill have to play with the original decklist and try to see how much better it fares.

Let us know when you've tried out the original list! It's always good to have feedback from people that try both sides!

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