Damien

Questing Miracle Rogue Gadgetzan Standard

22 posts in this topic

Guide mentioned a possible replacement, but I'd like to hear some more opinions, oh Rogue nerds masters: how crucial is Edwin VanCleef? Is this deck functional without him, or is cycling and conceal>cold blood setups are not enough? 

And I guess Xaril, Poisoned Mind is a bad idea, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Paracel said:

Guide mentioned a possible replacement, but I'd like to hear some more opinions, oh Rogue nerds masters: how crucial is Edwin VanCleef? Is this deck functional without him, or is cycling and conceal>cold blood setups are not enough? 

And I guess Xaril, Poisoned Mind is a bad idea, right?

VanCleef is most crucial in those aggro matchups. Depending on what you are facing most of, it can be the difference between winning and losing. Slamming him down on turn 3 can decide a game vs. aggro at that exact moment for 2 reasons:

  1. They most likely can't remove him.
  2. You most likely removed their board with spells before playing him.

Xaril sort of functions in the same way, but he doesn't present anywhere near the same body that Edwin does. You'll need to rely on RNG to give you a useful toxin, since the body of Xaril can be cleared by a 2/1 1-drop.

I think the 2-HP is just too weak. Earthen Ring works since it presents something that needs to be cleared by a stronger minion. 

The deck can definitely work without Edwin, you just don't have that HUGE early-game presence. You'll need to play smarter and will most likely have longer games without him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Blainie That's pretty much what I thought initially. Exploring the magnificent world of Miracle Rogue is going a long way. I'll [pun] keep my eyes open [/pun].

Also did you just use forum's usual daily post limit of 10 in like 20 minutes? I tuned away for a minute and my notification button just went BOOM!.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Paracel said:

@Blainie That's pretty much what I thought initially. Exploring the magnificent world of Miracle Rogue is going a long way. I'll [pun] keep my eyes open [/pun].

Also did you just use forum's usual daily post limit of 10 in like 20 minutes? I tuned away for a minute and my notification button just went BOOM!.

Rogue is probably my favourite class just because there is indeed so much to explore!

As a mod, I don't really have any sort of post limit :P I can spam you as much as I like!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Paracel said:

Guide mentioned a possible replacement, but I'd like to hear some more opinions, oh Rogue nerds masters: how crucial is Edwin VanCleef? Is this deck functional without him, or is cycling and conceal>cold blood setups are not enough? 

And I guess Xaril, Poisoned Mind is a bad idea, right?

Edwin VanCleef isn't as crucial in the deck as in the other miracle rogue decks, since you already run 2 Questing Adventurers, which work in a similar way. It's still going to hurt a bit, but not as much as it would with the other rogue decks, except for N'Zoth/Unearthed Raptor rogue and tempo rogue as they don't run Edwin VanCleef at all.
Xaril, Poisoned Mind could work as your swap for Edwin VanCleef in control match-ups. The card is alright and the toxins synergize well with Gadgetzan Auctioneers and the stars of the deck - Questing Adventurers. Some of the toxins have useful effects: Kingsblood Toxin for card draw, Briarthorn Toxin for lethal and damage overall, Fadeleaf Toxin for the same reason as Conceal, and Firebloom Toxin for clearing board and going for lethal. Basically, only Bloodthistle Toxin doesn't give you extra advantage.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, positiv2 said:

Edwin VanCleef isn't as crucial in the deck as in the other miracle rogue decks, since you already run 2 Questing Adventurers, which work in a similar way. It's still going to hurt a bit, but not as much as it would with the other rogue decks, except for N'Zoth/Unearthed Raptor rogue and tempo rogue as they don't run Edwin VanCleef at all.
Xaril, Poisoned Mind could work as your swap for Edwin VanCleef in control match-ups. The card is alright and the toxins synergize well with Gadgetzan Auctioneers and the stars of the deck - Questing Adventurers. Some of the toxins have useful effects: Kingsblood Toxin for card draw, Briarthorn Toxin for lethal and damage overall, Fadeleaf Toxin for the same reason as Conceal, and Firebloom Toxin for clearing board and going for lethal. Basically, only Bloodthistle Toxin doesn't give you extra advantage.

Do the questing adventurers survive enough removal?

As a general point of reference, let's say that you use on turn 3:

Prep + Evis + Backstab + The minion

VanCleef would give an 8/8, which survives most turn 4 removal. The QA gives a 5/5, which probably dies to a lot more.

I feel like the QAs are something that you'd play and protect while you buff them, while VanCleef is that massive early-board slam of pressure. Although they interact in a similar way, I can't help but feel like you play them in a completely different way/to obtain a different effect.

What do you think of Xaril as a body? Does it have an effect on his viability as a replacement? Also, opinions vs. aggro?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Blainie said:

Do the questing adventurers survive enough removal?

As a general point of reference, let's say that you use on turn 3:

Prep + Evis + Backstab + The minion

VanCleef would give an 8/8, which survives most turn 4 removal. The QA gives a 5/5, which probably dies to a lot more.

I feel like the QAs are something that you'd play and protect while you buff them, while VanCleef is that massive early-board slam of pressure. Although they interact in a similar way, I can't help but feel like you play them in a completely different way/to obtain a different effect.

What do you think of Xaril as a body? Does it have an effect on his viability as a replacement? Also, opinions vs. aggro?

Questing Adventurers can survive enough removal, but still should be protected by Conceal or Fadeleaf Toxin for a turn.

Even though that would be a nice turn, it happens very rarely. If you have a bad draw, Questing Adventurers are better. A bad turn doesn't hurt them as much, since you can buff them in later turns when you improve your hand. Usually Edwin VanCleef is better, but you can run only one of him the your deck (*cough* Gang Up *cough* - not worth it). 

Control decks will have a way to deal with the 8/8 - SapMulchAldor Peacekeeper/HumilityShadow Word: Death, and some aggro decks will have an answer as well - Power OverwhelmingFrostboltSap again. The 5/5 dies to Fireball or 1-drop beast + Skill CommandSlam + Fiery War Axe or Shadow Strike and stuff I listed for Edwin VanCleef, but on the other hand soft removals, such as Humility or Keeper of Uldaman don't hurt it as much since you can keep gaining stats. The 5/5 in the terms of survivability isn't much behind the 8/8.

Xaril's body is obviously bad and even though you can get Firebloom Toxin to deal with aggro, the body is just too bad for Xaril to be good in aggro matchup. So, yes, it does have an effect on its viability, but I think Xaril, Poisoned Mind is still good enough to be included if you face reasonable amount of aggro. If aggro decks are your main matchup, then you should look for a different replacement. Against aggro I'd prefer an Earthen Ring Farseer.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loving this deck and questing adventurer wins me so much games. 

I even keep it in aggro. You play questing plust removing spells and it creates a body they can't deal with it most of the time. 

Plus every time you use your spells it heals questing adventurer for one. 

Edited by Aexra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Aexra said:

I even keep it in aggro

I too like to live dangerously.

I'm glad that the deck is working well for you!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this season 30, here is many zoo and midrange shamans. So would blade furry work vs them? or what u think?

Rogue is missing big aoe removal right now, so maybe that is solution?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Number 2 is scientifically proven by Maelstrom Portal and Lightning Storm to be big. You can achieve it with Fan+Spell damage.

Flurry is a huge investment of 4 mana and requires setup through Deadly Poison, which is not consistent and creates card disadvantage most of the time. Don't do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i replaced vancleef with earthen ring,but is there any substitute for thalnos?so far Im running leeroy because of all the equality consecrate murlocdins to provide some extra final burst

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, TheEviscerator said:

i replaced vancleef with earthen ring,but is there any substitute for thalnos?so far Im running leeroy because of all the equality consecrate murlocdins to provide some extra final burst

Leeroy can work, if you need spellpower you can grab Kobold Geomancer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay after a bit of experimenting, I started to run 2 violet teacher over thalnos and edwin just as a replacement. paired with conceal it totally screws over zoolock...that was the most satisfying piece of BM i have ever done in ranked. FeelsGoodMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/27/2016 at 3:32 PM, TheEviscerator said:

okay after a bit of experimenting, I started to run 2 violet teacher over thalnos and edwin just as a replacement. paired with conceal it totally screws over zoolock...that was the most satisfying piece of BM i have ever done in ranked. FeelsGoodMan

Around what rank are you playing? Also, how does it do vs. other decks than zoo? Just to help out those that might be reading :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/3/2016 at 10:38 AM, Blainie said:

Around what rank are you playing? Also, how does it do vs. other decks than zoo? Just to help out those that might be reading :)

Im actually not that high,at around rank 14-15,and apart from zoo i also face some OTK pallys who like to equality consecrate then and have nothing agianst adventurers.however against shaman it just depends on whether they draw lightning storm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, TheEviscerator said:

Im actually not that high,at around rank 14-15,and apart from zoo i also face some OTK pallys who like to equality consecrate then and have nothing agianst adventurers.however against shaman it just depends on whether they draw lightning storm

While going up against shaman, if you can get a good Questing Adventurer or Edwin VanCleef or both (like at least 6 to 8 health), Lightning Storm should not do much, as even with high roll, it needs +3 spell damage to kill a 6 health minion.

Most important thing against shaman is how you utilize (first you should find them of course) your Conceals. If not, Hex will find you before other stuff probably and you would not want that obviously.

As a player whose main is rogue, this deck is incredible, it is not easy to play definitely, but strong, like really strong. 

Miracle rogue is always a great deck against slow decks (control decks most of the time), but I found this one quite successful against nowadays tier 1 decks too. 

I know I am not the player who always play at highest ranks, but this season, from rank 16 to 12, this deck is 5-1 against midrange shaman and 4-2 against malygos rogue. If I was not trying to play freeze mage (and fail miserably), I would probably be at higher ranks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/19/2016 at 8:15 PM, FanOfValeera said:

This deck is incredible, it is not easy to play definitely, but strong, like really strong. 

I feel like this is a sentiment that is expressed on SO many Rogue decks. It's crazy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blainie said:

I feel like this is a sentiment that is expressed on SO many Rogue decks. It's crazy!

Maybe because it is true :)

But you're right, so many people, ones that play it especially, think rogue is a complicated class. it is rewarding if you can master it, as it has good matchups all over the place (except shaman most of the time), and frustrating if you can't, as you just lose and lose for decades.

My ten game win streak with this deck was just stopped by a wall shaman, to be more specific Yogg-Saron, Hope's End. Turned my 4 minions into either sheep or boar and kill them one by one with Shadow Strikes, turned itself into a 8/11 taunt, then hit me in the face for 8 with 2 Eviscerates. It felt like going up against another rogue deck for a moment.

After all this time, I feel like I am starting the grasp the idea of miracle rogue archetype, and it feels really good.

 

Also, why Blizzard wouldn't nerf this card in a way that it can only cast spells from the class of the player who plays it. Maybe, that would make the card less cancerous.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By TheBeninator
      So the latest expansion, Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, has been out for more than a month now, and I was curious what everyone´s opinion on it was. Personally, I love the set. It adds more synergy with types of cards that weren´t as popular beforehand. For example, sets like secret mage, demon warlock, taunt warrior, and beast druid/hunter, have all gotten big buffs and can be viable in the meta. I got rank 13 with secret mage and taunt warrior alone, and hope to get to legend with them. What about you?
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Wizard Manald Channeling Build.
    • By Zadina
      The live Q&A with the two well-known Hearthstone devs took place yesterday and we've made a recap of the most interesting points.
      First of all, if you want to watch the whole thing, the VOD can be found here (it starts at 14:10). If you prefer a shorter version, Redditor EpicMelon has made a 10-min video of everything important said. Ultimately, if you don't feel like watching videos, we've made a summary of anything worth noting from yesterday's Q&A.
      Ben started talking about the new player experience, a topic he has discussed again this week. He repeated that most new players start off by playing versus A.I., some go to Casual and a minority goes to Ranked. The team has made it so that in Casual new players are exclusively matched against other new players and their MMR is kept to a 50% winrate.
      One of the currently most discussed hot topics in the Hearthstone community is the Ranked ladder. The team is satisfied with how clear the current system is in how it works. However, they do realise that its grindiness and the monthly reset can be a disadvantage and feel repetitive. To counter that, they are looking into short-term increasing the amount of bonus stars players can gain. This will hopefully increase the number of players in medium and higher ranks and move veterans away from Rank 20. However, they don't want everyone to be a Legend player either, since this would devalue the ranking. New breakpoints are also an idea the Hearthstone team is considering. As far as winstreaks stopping at Rank 5 are concerned, the idea behind this is that they wanted players to get to Legend "legit"; this could change as well, though.
      Moving to the topic of Arena, Dean announced that they are thinking of moving it to Standard format. Moreover, they want to try decreasing the amount of commons you get, as well as the amount of neutral Classic and Basic cards (especially minions). Some of these changes for Arena are already ready to be added to the game they are just waiting for the right time to patch them in. In early February, top 100 rankings for Arena will be published - just like the Ranked season ones. These rankings will be calculated based on highest average wins per run basis with a minimum requirement of 30 runs.
      The guys had a few things to say about the current meta, too. Pirate Warrior represented 30% of the meta game near the launch of Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, while there were also a lot of Pirate Shamans and Rogues. Thankfully, these numbers have dropped as other decks (like Jade Druid and Reno decks) started surfacing. Pirate decks are slightly more popular than Team 5 would like and decks with the pirate package feel same-y. If this persists, they might take a look at Pirates. Hunters and Paladins are having a hard time at the moment because they can't keep up with the aggro pirate decks. Overall, the internal meta report shows a stability in the meta: there is only a 3% difference between the winrates of the top deck and the 11th best deck.
      Lastly, there was mention of the Wild format. Ben admitted that they could do some things better for Wild. For example, it's possible that Blizzard will encourage more Wild tournaments in the future. The upcoming rotation will be interesting since Wild will have more card sets than Standard. Wild is far from dead: it's just half as popular as Standard, although Ben hasn't looked in the numbers recently. Earlier in the stream, Ben also said that the team is considering two options to keep Standard fresh: either nerfing cards or just move them to Wild.
      Lastly, Ben and Dean talked about various other small topics like the possibility of reprinting cards (no actual answer given), more Hunter and Paladin talk, wording inconsistencies and rewriting old cards, how a healthy meta is defined and Team 5 itself.
    • By digimij
      Howdy,
      I was going to submit a bug report in game, but I thought I'd check here to see if this really is a bug, or if I just don't understand how the ability is supposed to work. Here's what I planned to submit:
      outlaw rogue ability: Between the Eyes, is not correctly applying the 4x damage increase on critical strikes per the tooltip listed damage for each combo point, nor is it appropriately applying any of the bonus damage modifiers: prey on the weak and ghostly strike. If using Deeper Strategem talent, it appears to be applying 4x damage based on the 5th combo point tooltip, but again, the modifiers:ghostly strike and prey on the weak are not applying. 
      Per the tooltip, at 6 combo points, I should do 200,695 damage, 5 combo points would be 167,470 damage. While testing this on a training dummy, with Ghostly Strike and Prey on the Weak applied, with Deeper Strategem talented, using 6 combo points, I see a critical strike (100% chance from legendary shoulders) of 682,357. Unless my math is horribly mistaken, that should be a critical strike for 963,336:
      200,695 x 4 x (100% + 10% + 10%)
       
      This is what I do:
      Stand behind dummy, so nothing is blocked, build up 6 combo points, apply Ghostly strike, either vanish, or leave combat and enter stealth, use Cheap Shot, then use Between the Eyes
    • By Zadina
      Hearthstone Game Director Ben Brode and Game Designer Dean Ayala will answer all your questions on a live Q&A session on Twitch this Friday!
      The complaints about the lack of communication from the part of the Hearthstone team have been answered. This Friday the 13th (!) of January, Ben Brode and Dean Ayala will answer questions about some of the most heated topics that currently affect the playerbase. Ben has already made some posts about issues like the Classic card set and the possibility of some Classic cards rotating out of Standard.
      As always, we will try to have a recap of the Q&A as soon as it is finished.
      Blizzard Entertainment
      Pull up a chair by the hearth! Join Hearthstone Game Director Ben Brode and Game Designer Dean Ayala January 13 at 9:00am PST for a live Q&A session on Twitch. Our developers will be sharing some insight about the state of the game, the new player experience, the ranked play system, and answering your questions live.
       
      Have some questions for Ben and Dean? Here’s how you can be part of the conversation:
      - Tweet @PlayHearthstone with the hashtag #QA with your question
      - Post a question below in the blog comments
      - Join us live in Twitch chat and direct questions to us @PlayHearthstone
       
        Can’t make it? Don’t worry – we will be posting the full video on the PlayHearthstone YouTube after the Q&A has completed.
       
       
      Follow the official Hearthstone Twitch channel to be notified when the stream begins.
      We’ll see you there!
      (source)