Damien

Questing Miracle Rogue Standard

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Guide mentioned a possible replacement, but I'd like to hear some more opinions, oh Rogue nerds masters: how crucial is Edwin VanCleef? Is this deck functional without him, or is cycling and conceal>cold blood setups are not enough? 

And I guess Xaril, Poisoned Mind is a bad idea, right?

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25 minutes ago, Paracel said:

Guide mentioned a possible replacement, but I'd like to hear some more opinions, oh Rogue nerds masters: how crucial is Edwin VanCleef? Is this deck functional without him, or is cycling and conceal>cold blood setups are not enough? 

And I guess Xaril, Poisoned Mind is a bad idea, right?

VanCleef is most crucial in those aggro matchups. Depending on what you are facing most of, it can be the difference between winning and losing. Slamming him down on turn 3 can decide a game vs. aggro at that exact moment for 2 reasons:

  1. They most likely can't remove him.
  2. You most likely removed their board with spells before playing him.

Xaril sort of functions in the same way, but he doesn't present anywhere near the same body that Edwin does. You'll need to rely on RNG to give you a useful toxin, since the body of Xaril can be cleared by a 2/1 1-drop.

I think the 2-HP is just too weak. Earthen Ring works since it presents something that needs to be cleared by a stronger minion. 

The deck can definitely work without Edwin, you just don't have that HUGE early-game presence. You'll need to play smarter and will most likely have longer games without him. 

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@Blainie That's pretty much what I thought initially. Exploring the magnificent world of Miracle Rogue is going a long way. I'll [pun] keep my eyes open [/pun].

Also did you just use forum's usual daily post limit of 10 in like 20 minutes? I tuned away for a minute and my notification button just went BOOM!.

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22 minutes ago, Paracel said:

@Blainie That's pretty much what I thought initially. Exploring the magnificent world of Miracle Rogue is going a long way. I'll [pun] keep my eyes open [/pun].

Also did you just use forum's usual daily post limit of 10 in like 20 minutes? I tuned away for a minute and my notification button just went BOOM!.

Rogue is probably my favourite class just because there is indeed so much to explore!

As a mod, I don't really have any sort of post limit :P I can spam you as much as I like!

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6 hours ago, Paracel said:

Guide mentioned a possible replacement, but I'd like to hear some more opinions, oh Rogue nerds masters: how crucial is Edwin VanCleef? Is this deck functional without him, or is cycling and conceal>cold blood setups are not enough? 

And I guess Xaril, Poisoned Mind is a bad idea, right?

Edwin VanCleef isn't as crucial in the deck as in the other miracle rogue decks, since you already run 2 Questing Adventurers, which work in a similar way. It's still going to hurt a bit, but not as much as it would with the other rogue decks, except for N'Zoth/Unearthed Raptor rogue and tempo rogue as they don't run Edwin VanCleef at all.
Xaril, Poisoned Mind could work as your swap for Edwin VanCleef in control match-ups. The card is alright and the toxins synergize well with Gadgetzan Auctioneers and the stars of the deck - Questing Adventurers. Some of the toxins have useful effects: Kingsblood Toxin for card draw, Briarthorn Toxin for lethal and damage overall, Fadeleaf Toxin for the same reason as Conceal, and Firebloom Toxin for clearing board and going for lethal. Basically, only Bloodthistle Toxin doesn't give you extra advantage.

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5 hours ago, positiv2 said:

Edwin VanCleef isn't as crucial in the deck as in the other miracle rogue decks, since you already run 2 Questing Adventurers, which work in a similar way. It's still going to hurt a bit, but not as much as it would with the other rogue decks, except for N'Zoth/Unearthed Raptor rogue and tempo rogue as they don't run Edwin VanCleef at all.
Xaril, Poisoned Mind could work as your swap for Edwin VanCleef in control match-ups. The card is alright and the toxins synergize well with Gadgetzan Auctioneers and the stars of the deck - Questing Adventurers. Some of the toxins have useful effects: Kingsblood Toxin for card draw, Briarthorn Toxin for lethal and damage overall, Fadeleaf Toxin for the same reason as Conceal, and Firebloom Toxin for clearing board and going for lethal. Basically, only Bloodthistle Toxin doesn't give you extra advantage.

Do the questing adventurers survive enough removal?

As a general point of reference, let's say that you use on turn 3:

Prep + Evis + Backstab + The minion

VanCleef would give an 8/8, which survives most turn 4 removal. The QA gives a 5/5, which probably dies to a lot more.

I feel like the QAs are something that you'd play and protect while you buff them, while VanCleef is that massive early-board slam of pressure. Although they interact in a similar way, I can't help but feel like you play them in a completely different way/to obtain a different effect.

What do you think of Xaril as a body? Does it have an effect on his viability as a replacement? Also, opinions vs. aggro?

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9 hours ago, Blainie said:

Do the questing adventurers survive enough removal?

As a general point of reference, let's say that you use on turn 3:

Prep + Evis + Backstab + The minion

VanCleef would give an 8/8, which survives most turn 4 removal. The QA gives a 5/5, which probably dies to a lot more.

I feel like the QAs are something that you'd play and protect while you buff them, while VanCleef is that massive early-board slam of pressure. Although they interact in a similar way, I can't help but feel like you play them in a completely different way/to obtain a different effect.

What do you think of Xaril as a body? Does it have an effect on his viability as a replacement? Also, opinions vs. aggro?

Questing Adventurers can survive enough removal, but still should be protected by Conceal or Fadeleaf Toxin for a turn.

Even though that would be a nice turn, it happens very rarely. If you have a bad draw, Questing Adventurers are better. A bad turn doesn't hurt them as much, since you can buff them in later turns when you improve your hand. Usually Edwin VanCleef is better, but you can run only one of him the your deck (*cough* Gang Up *cough* - not worth it). 

Control decks will have a way to deal with the 8/8 - SapMulchAldor Peacekeeper/HumilityShadow Word: Death, and some aggro decks will have an answer as well - Power OverwhelmingFrostboltSap again. The 5/5 dies to Fireball or 1-drop beast + Skill CommandSlam + Fiery War Axe or Shadow Strike and stuff I listed for Edwin VanCleef, but on the other hand soft removals, such as Humility or Keeper of Uldaman don't hurt it as much since you can keep gaining stats. The 5/5 in the terms of survivability isn't much behind the 8/8.

Xaril's body is obviously bad and even though you can get Firebloom Toxin to deal with aggro, the body is just too bad for Xaril to be good in aggro matchup. So, yes, it does have an effect on its viability, but I think Xaril, Poisoned Mind is still good enough to be included if you face reasonable amount of aggro. If aggro decks are your main matchup, then you should look for a different replacement. Against aggro I'd prefer an Earthen Ring Farseer.

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Loving this deck and questing adventurer wins me so much games. 

I even keep it in aggro. You play questing plust removing spells and it creates a body they can't deal with it most of the time. 

Plus every time you use your spells it heals questing adventurer for one. 

Edited by Aexra

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15 hours ago, Aexra said:

I even keep it in aggro

I too like to live dangerously.

I'm glad that the deck is working well for you!

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In this season 30, here is many zoo and midrange shamans. So would blade furry work vs them? or what u think?

Rogue is missing big aoe removal right now, so maybe that is solution?

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Number 2 is scientifically proven by Maelstrom Portal and Lightning Storm to be big. You can achieve it with Fan+Spell damage.

Flurry is a huge investment of 4 mana and requires setup through Deadly Poison, which is not consistent and creates card disadvantage most of the time. Don't do it.

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i replaced vancleef with earthen ring,but is there any substitute for thalnos?so far Im running leeroy because of all the equality consecrate murlocdins to provide some extra final burst

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14 hours ago, TheEviscerator said:

i replaced vancleef with earthen ring,but is there any substitute for thalnos?so far Im running leeroy because of all the equality consecrate murlocdins to provide some extra final burst

Leeroy can work, if you need spellpower you can grab Kobold Geomancer

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okay after a bit of experimenting, I started to run 2 violet teacher over thalnos and edwin just as a replacement. paired with conceal it totally screws over zoolock...that was the most satisfying piece of BM i have ever done in ranked. FeelsGoodMan

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On 9/27/2016 at 3:32 PM, TheEviscerator said:

okay after a bit of experimenting, I started to run 2 violet teacher over thalnos and edwin just as a replacement. paired with conceal it totally screws over zoolock...that was the most satisfying piece of BM i have ever done in ranked. FeelsGoodMan

Around what rank are you playing? Also, how does it do vs. other decks than zoo? Just to help out those that might be reading :)

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On 10/3/2016 at 10:38 AM, Blainie said:

Around what rank are you playing? Also, how does it do vs. other decks than zoo? Just to help out those that might be reading :)

Im actually not that high,at around rank 14-15,and apart from zoo i also face some OTK pallys who like to equality consecrate then and have nothing agianst adventurers.however against shaman it just depends on whether they draw lightning storm

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11 hours ago, TheEviscerator said:

Im actually not that high,at around rank 14-15,and apart from zoo i also face some OTK pallys who like to equality consecrate then and have nothing agianst adventurers.however against shaman it just depends on whether they draw lightning storm

While going up against shaman, if you can get a good Questing Adventurer or Edwin VanCleef or both (like at least 6 to 8 health), Lightning Storm should not do much, as even with high roll, it needs +3 spell damage to kill a 6 health minion.

Most important thing against shaman is how you utilize (first you should find them of course) your Conceals. If not, Hex will find you before other stuff probably and you would not want that obviously.

As a player whose main is rogue, this deck is incredible, it is not easy to play definitely, but strong, like really strong. 

Miracle rogue is always a great deck against slow decks (control decks most of the time), but I found this one quite successful against nowadays tier 1 decks too. 

I know I am not the player who always play at highest ranks, but this season, from rank 16 to 12, this deck is 5-1 against midrange shaman and 4-2 against malygos rogue. If I was not trying to play freeze mage (and fail miserably), I would probably be at higher ranks.

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On 10/19/2016 at 8:15 PM, FanOfValeera said:

This deck is incredible, it is not easy to play definitely, but strong, like really strong. 

I feel like this is a sentiment that is expressed on SO many Rogue decks. It's crazy!

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1 hour ago, Blainie said:

I feel like this is a sentiment that is expressed on SO many Rogue decks. It's crazy!

Maybe because it is true :)

But you're right, so many people, ones that play it especially, think rogue is a complicated class. it is rewarding if you can master it, as it has good matchups all over the place (except shaman most of the time), and frustrating if you can't, as you just lose and lose for decades.

My ten game win streak with this deck was just stopped by a wall shaman, to be more specific Yogg-Saron, Hope's End. Turned my 4 minions into either sheep or boar and kill them one by one with Shadow Strikes, turned itself into a 8/11 taunt, then hit me in the face for 8 with 2 Eviscerates. It felt like going up against another rogue deck for a moment.

After all this time, I feel like I am starting the grasp the idea of miracle rogue archetype, and it feels really good.

 

Also, why Blizzard wouldn't nerf this card in a way that it can only cast spells from the class of the player who plays it. Maybe, that would make the card less cancerous.

 

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Any idea for replacement Barnes ? He don't fit well in my opinion

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