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Lockybalboa

Warcraft Logs and How to Analyzing a Havoc Demon Hunter

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THIS IS NOT A GUIDE ON HOW TO USE WARCRAFTLOGS - THIS IS A GUIDE ON HOW TO ANALYZE A HAVOC DEMON HUNTER WHILE USING WARCRAFTLOGS. If you do not know how to use Warcraftlogs.com, please see this awesome guide, and this one, and this one. Thank you.

This doesn't really require that you know how to play a DH or even that you are a DH, with the number of new DHs that are looking to raid I'm sure there is more than a few raid leaders and class officers that will need to take a hard look at the DHs in their raid. This guide is meant for all of you, from raider to raid leader.

This guide assumes the DH is using the max DPS talents (Fel Mastery, Prepared, Bloodlet, Momentum, Master of the Glavie, Fel Barrage or Chaos Blades for pure ST) and playstyle for max DPS.

The only variations to this is Demon Blades instead of Prepared and Nemesis instead of Momentum. I won't be covering either of these talents or how to analysis them for a couple of reasons, 1) they are almost always a minor DPS loss 2) I haven't gotten to look at logs with them being used enough 3) the Momentum build will be more common and much harder to execute thus a guide covering it is more useful right now.

Demon Blades works great for burst AoE, but that is a fairly rare fight mechanic that doesn't really need to be addressed. Taken any other time, it is just a DPS loss albeit a fairly minor one.

Nemesis removes the hyper rushing around style of game play and might be required for some mythic fights where excessive moment can get a raider or raid killed. It is also a much easier style of play that has a lot less opportunity for mistakes to be made. But again, no matter how you slice it, it will be a DPS loss but again a minor one.

I will be adding sections for how to analyze these two talents, but for right now I'm not because I just can't. I haven't used either talent much and I haven't gotten my hands on enough other good DHs logs that did use them to formulate a good way of analyzing them. Once A) I use them a lot or B) DHs logs using them start popping up on warcraftlogs for me to stalk and learn from, I will add them to the guide.

To aid in this thread I'll be using a log I took of me banging away on a dummy as an example, note that this log isn't for true How To Play demonstration - I made mistakes by mistake and on purpose so that I could talk about them. You Can Find The Full Log Here

 

Step One - Damage Spread:

Damage spread should look roughly like Throw Glaive>Chaos Strike>Fel Rush>Demon's Bite>Eye Beam>Fel Barrage> Fury of the Illidary. This is not a hard rule though and will change a lot based on number of targets, fight length, and more. If the damage spread looks different than what is listed, don't panic. This is just a general idea of what a single target fight will look like.

What you should look for is something that is really out of whack, such as Demon's Bite being top or Throw Glaive being on the bottom. Something like that WOULD indicate a fundamental problem.

 

Step Two - Buff Uptimes:

Only three buffs to look at, Momentum, Prepared, and Metamorphosis.

Momentum TL;DR - 55%+ uptime, under 50% is a major problem.

Momentum is the damage buff gained from casting Fel Rush or Vengeful Retreat and grants a 4 second 20% damage buff. This is the main execution window that a DH is working with, all of their heavy hitter spells should be used with Momentum up. Note that this is a hard 4 seconds, recasting it early does not extend the buff. If you cast Fel Rush when you still have 2 seconds of Momentum up, you wasted two seconds. Keep this in mind as it is important later in the analysis.

Prepared TL;DR - 20%ish+ uptime, under 15% is a major problem.

Prepared is a 40 Fury over 5 seconds buff that is gained from casting Vengeful Retreat and damaging at least one target. Basically, free Fury. It also procs Momentum. Because Vengeful Retreat is a displacement tool, Fury generator, and procs Momentum there are a number of reasons and ways to use it and because of that there is no hard and fast rule on up time or amount used. It should be used as much as possible for DPS, but there are clear legitimate reasons why it would be used defensively.

Metamorphosis TL;DR - Fight length in minutes / 4 + 1 = number of Metas that should have been cast. Ie, 5 min fight / 4 = 1 + 1 = 2 metas. 9 minute fight / 4 = 2 + 1 = 3 metas.

Meta is a DH's major DPS CD, grow wings, get mad, gain 25% haste, buffed abilities, and go ham. Missing a meta is plausible due to things like saving it for a burn phase or super deadly adds, however the times for saving Meta will be few and fight dependant. Missing more than 1 meta normally means there is a major problem.

 

Step Three - Resource Usage

Fury is the H DH's resource and is generated/spent much in the same way that Rage is. Although there are differences, it can generally be thought of as Warrior Rage bar.

Look at the Resource Tab, select the DH you want to look at, change the drop down to Fury and you'll find something like this:

furyUsageOne.PNG

See how the Fury gained and used is very vertical, build all the or almost all the way up and then BOOM dump it hard - this is generally speaking how it should look. Also note that in the lower left it says only 12 Fury was wasted. The perfect number here is 0, but as long as it is low it is good with lower always being better. I would say anything under 25 is high mythic tier, anything under 50 is solid, anything under 100 is okay, any higher than 125 and there needs to be major play improvements made.

Another thing to look for here is Fury holding, anytime the graph is flat line - no matter where that line is - might indicate a mistake or problem. As you can see often in my log there are a number of places where I help 100 fury for 2 to 3 seconds, this was because I was fighting a small dummy and Fel Rush often took me to faraway...not a lot that can be done about that and so it doesn't really indicate an issue. However, if I had moments of 5 or more seconds or a LOT of 3+ second marks, then there might be an issue that needs to be addressed. This is all highly dependant on the fight and strat, but something that should be considered.

 

Step Four - Casts and Momentum Window Usage

This is where it gets complex. First, I go to the Buffs tab and add a pin for the Momentum buff. Next go to the Casts tab and add pins for Demon's BIte, Chaos Strike, Throw Glaive, Vengeful Retreat, Annihilation, Eye Beam, Fel Barrage, and Fury of the Illidari.

Turn all of the Pins to Off except for the Momentum Buff pin, set Momentum to Main.

You should get something like this...but there should be a graph below the pins...idky my log was acting weird:

castsOne.PNG

 

Because my log was acting weird, I went to the Damage Done tab and deselected everything so that I had this:

castsTwo.PNG

The green (the color you get might change) vertical bars are when Momentum was active. THESE SHOULD NOT OVERLAP. Even overlapping once or twice is a fair DPS loss and so ANY clipping of Momentum should be addressed.

Fully analyzing a DH log is a fairly time consuming process at this point as it involves a lot of turning pins off and on and comparing the cast times with when Momentum was active. DH spells are almost binary, they either should be cast with Momentum up or they should not be. 

 Go through each pin and set it to Main along with the Momentum Buff. Only two pins should be shown at a time, once you're done looking at one you set it to Off and move to the next.

Demon's Bite = cast OUTSIDE of Momentum - any cast with Momentum up is a mistake.

Chaos Strike = cast INSIDE of Momentum - casted outside of Momentum only to prevent Fury capping, should be very rare. Although this might change on the fight, basically never more than 3-5 cast outside of Momentum EVER. On a non-gimick fight, zero cast out of Momentum.

Throw Glaive = cast INSIDE of Momentum - although it should be cast regardless of  situation to prevent stack capping, if it is needed to be cast in such a way that means the DH made a mistake to allow for that to happen. Good play = ALWAYS cast with Momentum up.

Annihilation = cast INSIDE of Momentum - Same as Chaos Strike, literally. Annihilation is Chaos Strike but with Metamorphosis up.

Eye Beam = cast INSIDE of Momentum - ALWAYS with Momentum up, if the DH allowed a situation to occur when they were forced to use it without Momentum then the DH messed up.

Fury of the Illidary = cast INSIDE of Momentum - same as Eye Beam.

Fel Barrage = cast INSIDE of Momentum - same as Eye Beam and Fury of the Illidary.

 

To give you an idea of how this looks, lets look at Demon's Bite and Chaos Strike.

First - Demon's Bite:

demonsBite.PNG

See how the thin gold lines (Demon's Bite casts) are almost totally outside of the thick green lines (Momentum buff). That is a good thing, however, there are a number of times where the two overlap - that means Demon's Bite was cast during Momentum and that is poor game play. This doesn't mean it is a bad log, it just means there is room for improvement. If the lines overlap they should overlap rare. I would say for ballpark numbers, sub-5% overlap is awesome, sub-10% overlap is good, anything higher than 10% is an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

Now look at Chaos Strike:

chaosStrike.PNG

See how the purple lines (Chaos Strike casts) are overlapping with the green bars, this is good. But again we see some casts where they should not be, in Chaos Strikes case they are outside of the green bars. There are some differences, but generally speaking the same percentage as with Demon's Bite work with Chaos Strike -  sub-5% overlap is awesome, sub-10% overlap is good, anything higher than 10% is an issue that needs to be addressed.

However, note the large gap in the middle - why is that? Well in this case we find the answer when we turn on the pin for Annihilation and see that the overlaps are solid again.

chaosStrikeTwo.PNG

See the gold lines marking the Annihilation casts. When in meta, Chaos Strike becomes Annihilation.

 

This usage of pins and looking at if they were cast in or out of Momentum is the key to fully analyzing a DH's DPS. It is a time consuming process but fairly easy once you know what to do.

 

Keep in mind that this is not a end-all and be-all guide, I will be adding/changing/updating this as time goes on and I get the chance to review more logs.

If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to post about them.

If you would like your logs reviewed, please post them. I, and others I hope, will be happy to help.

 

 

Change Log:

9/19 Posted.

9/20 Nemesis disclaimer added.

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Thank you very much for the detailed guide. I am definitely going to use this one to analyse my gameplay during the upcoming content. It is going to be so helpful to analyse whether or not your (and other DHs in your raid) do not overlap Momentum AND use the right abilities in this short time frame (i.e. everything regarding the priority, EXCEPT for your builder ofc). 

 

Edit: While analysing your logs I noticed that in the first momentum time frame you only used fury of the illidary, nothing more. Now somewhere you've mentioned that sometimes you just rush too far away, but this was the opening fel rush I guess. So is there a specific reason to not cast at least throw glaives?

 

Edited by Ilduros
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Awesome guide, thank you for taking the time to put it together.

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4 hours ago, Ilduros said:

Edit: While analysing your logs I noticed that in the first momentum time frame you only used fury of the illidary, nothing more. Now somewhere you've mentioned that sometimes you just rush too far away, but this was the opening fel rush I guess. So is there a specific reason to not cast at least throw glaives?

I wasn't doing a proper opener at all, I basically Fel Rushed in and started smashing buttons while also listening to a hunter interview on teamspeak. My goal was to get a log, not a good log.

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Just now, Lockybalboa said:

I wasn't doing a proper opener at all, I basically Fel Rushed in and started smashing buttons while also listening to a hunter interview on teamspeak. My goal was to get a log, not a good log.

No offense man, just asking whether there was a reason behind this. Thanks for the insight!

Edited by Ilduros

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Just now, Ilduros said:

No offense man, just asking whether there was a reason behind this. Thanks for the insight!

None taken mate, glad to help!

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Ehm, but glaive toss is close to never our top damaging ability. Unless this is glaive toss+bloodlet damage, which is doubtful. I mean if peeps are gonna check a havoc dh they'll be very disappointed since there's no way that glaive toss outdamages chaos strike, bloodlet, etc. Many use chaos blades even in aoe fights since our burst aoe from our basic spells usually is enough if you pair them up with momentum. I'm sorry the damage spread is just bothering me, pretty sure my simcraft didn't bug on me that hard...

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58 minutes ago, Kayusa said:

Ehm, but glaive toss is close to never our top damaging ability. 

Warcraft logs displays Bloodlet and Throw Glaive together, it only separates it if you do some fiddling. Easier to look at it as one skill though.

I just looked at 10 logs of EN from last night, all of them have Chaos Strike as the top because all of them were using Potion of the Old War. When you remove the double Chaos Strike and look only at what was cast, Throw Glaive + Bloodlet is the top damage for all of them.

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Ah thought you meant glaive toss alone which wasn't possible at all for that alone to take out chaos strike in terms of dps. Also using potion of war is kinda standard in a progression focused guild so I wouldn't disregard that either way. Anyway with bloolt+glaive toss I'd understand then yeah :)

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27 minutes ago, Kayusa said:

Also using potion of war is kinda standard in a progression focused guild so I wouldn't disregard that either way. 

Using it might be standard, but it has nothing to do with analyzing a log other than making sure that potions were used - thus it should be ignored for the purpose of determining whether or not a class/spec was played correctly.

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Alrighty, I'm having very different results even without the potions on the top guild's logs but I might be overlooking something ^^

Edited by Kayusa

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On 21/09/2016 at 6:42 PM, Lockybalboa said:

Warcraft logs displays Bloodlet and Throw Glaive together, it only separates it if you do some fiddling. Easier to look at it as one skill though.

I just looked at 10 logs of EN from last night, all of them have Chaos Strike as the top because all of them were using Potion of the Old War. When you remove the double Chaos Strike and look only at what was cast, Throw Glaive + Bloodlet is the top damage for all of them.

Hi m8 sorry but you're wrong about that, chaos strike simply has 2 strikes with different damage ratio. It thus appears as 2 line in warcraft logs, however it is not linked by any way to potion of the old war and chaos strike should always be your primary damaging ability.

Edit : BTW thanks a lot for the guide for warcraft logs =)

Edited by Tyuri

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17 minutes ago, Tyuri said:

Edit : BTW thanks a lot for the guide for warcraft logs =)

You're welcome.

Either way it is irrelevant now, with the throw/bloodlet nerf it has massively changed. I'll update the guide later today/tomorrow to reflect changes.

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