chlordiazepoxide

Ass Rogue needs help

14 posts in this topic

Friends, Rogues, derp, lend me your eyeballs and fingers.

I have a problem. My stats flipping suck, and as a result, I constantly am near the bottom when it comes to raid deeps. i consistently have a deeps average of about 140-110k, and I am fking sick and tired of it.

My stats are at the bottom. I am perfectly aware that Ass Rogue prioritises Agi>Vers>Crit>Mas>Has.

See the thing is that most of the gear that drops for me in Mythics (and even my damned legendary) has Mastery. It takes forever for me to get an item that has Vers as one of the stats. Back in other expansions we had transmog, and to this day i have no bloody idea why the hell did Blizz get rid of transmog (they probably had a good reason idek).

I beg of thee, oh wise and learned ones, to give me some advice. I do not want to lose my spot in raiding.

I do not know how to rectify this issue. Please help. 

 

Screen Shot 2016-09-26 at 15.35.12.png

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2 hours ago, chlordiazepoxide said:

Friends, Rogues, derp, lend me your eyeballs and fingers.

I have a problem. My stats flipping suck, and as a result, I constantly am near the bottom when it comes to raid deeps. i consistently have a deeps average of about 140-110k, and I am fking sick and tired of it.

My stats are at the bottom. I am perfectly aware that Ass Rogue prioritises Agi>Vers>Crit>Mas>Has.

See the thing is that most of the gear that drops for me in Mythics (and even my damned legendary) has Mastery. It takes forever for me to get an item that has Vers as one of the stats. Back in other expansions we had transmog, and to this day i have no bloody idea why the hell did Blizz get rid of transmog (they probably had a good reason idek).

I beg of thee, oh wise and learned ones, to give me some advice. I do not want to lose my spot in raiding.

I do not know how to rectify this issue. Please help. 

 

Screen Shot 2016-09-26 at 15.35.12.png

In short, you can't really fix it, just keep hunting for gear

Without logs, I can't really tell you what you're doing wrong in raid, but a good first step might be to try Agonizing Poison - it simplifies things so you make fewer errors, and benefits from a high level of Mastery

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Hey, i am not the experienced guy you are looking for and i am not here to brag or anything, i really dont.

all i can say is, you have better stats than me and im at 200k average in raids last week. try to get some logs, so the the experienced guys canb help you, since you should really get better numbers with these stats. 

I have 9 % more versatilty other than that you are way better in crit and mastery than me. i am at 7% haste, which feels like a huge waste of stats on my gear. I dont know if 9% vers is that much of a difference in the DPS category.

and what talents are you using?

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2 hours ago, Zupsero said:

Hey, i am not the experienced guy you are looking for and i am not here to brag or anything, i really dont.

all i can say is, you have better stats than me and im at 200k average in raids last week. try to get some logs, so the the experienced guys canb help you, since you should really get better numbers with these stats. 

I have 9 % more versatilty other than that you are way better in crit and mastery than me. i am at 7% haste, which feels like a huge waste of stats on my gear. I dont know if 9% vers is that much of a difference in the DPS category.

and what talents are you using?

 

5 hours ago, Carrn said:

In short, you can't really fix it, just keep hunting for gear

Without logs, I can't really tell you what you're doing wrong in raid, but a good first step might be to try Agonizing Poison - it simplifies things so you make fewer errors, and benefits from a high level of Mastery

 

Zupsero, Carrn, thank you for replying. I truly appreciate it. I have no damned idea where I'm going wrong. I've adjusted my rotation a little and it seems to raise the dps  levels by about 10-20k but that's it. 

Yes both of you are completely right. i've just been out of the loop for a while and it took me a while to hunt these down. following are the logs, plus my armory profile.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JjK1B9fb3AQmGD6z#type=damage-done&source=33 image as below, il'gynoth. you can toggle the fights as above, but im pretty sure you guys are already familiar with that. 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostmourne/Infinitits/advanced my wow armory as stated.

I thank you both for your help.

 

 

Screen Shot 2016-09-26 at 23.36.55.png

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A suggestion I can give is to check the gear that drops on each boss in raid/dungeons in different specs. The smart loot tends to give you a kind of "stat attunement", so it "fixes" the loot table for you (i.e. give higher chance of dropping x item than y item).

That's why you can set up the loot you're looking for on your nameplate (more visible for hybrid specs, but still works on DPS)

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Alright my friend.

Your stats don't really explain your DPS.

I took a quick look at your logs for Ursoc and Nythendra (because looking at heart of corruption wipes isn't really a good way to figure out what you did wrong) and I instantly can tell you that you are doing some very basic things wrong.

Your Uptime from Rupture and especially Garrote is absolutely aweful and those two Bleeds make up a very big part of your Damage, no matter what build you are using. Not only do they deal massive damage, but also do both enhance your energy regeneration, which lets you perform way more other abilities.

 

I just compared it to my Ursoc HC kill, where i did a little more than 300k DPS (ilvl 852) and i had an uptime of 96% on Garrote and 98% on Rupture.

On your Ursoc kill you have ~75% Rupture and a pretty ridiculous uptime of 4% on Garrote. Just by improving on this would raise your DPS by quite a bit.

Sure, sometimes your bleeds run out, because of bossmechanics, but you should always try and aim for 100% uptime.

 

Also, if you can afford it, use Flasks and Potion of the Old War, while also enchanting your neck. Those Things actually give a pretty big DPS boost.

There are a lot more things you are doing wrong, but those are the most severe ones. If you work on them i can promise you, that your DPS will go up by a lot.

 

Greetz

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20 hours ago, chlordiazepoxide said:

Zupsero, Carrn, thank you for replying. I truly appreciate it. I have no damned idea where I'm going wrong. I've adjusted my rotation a little and it seems to raise the dps  levels by about 10-20k but that's it. 

Yes both of you are completely right. i've just been out of the loop for a while and it took me a while to hunt these down. following are the logs, plus my armory profile.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JjK1B9fb3AQmGD6z#type=damage-done&source=33 image as below, il'gynoth. you can toggle the fights as above, but im pretty sure you guys are already familiar with that. 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostmourne/Infinitits/advanced my wow armory as stated.

I thank you both for your help.

I took a brief look through your Ursoc log, like the fellow above me, and as he said your bleed times need a lot of work

Make sure that you're keeping them up 100% of the time - both Garrote and Rupture. Remember that Garrote can be used out of stealth now as well, which is a big change if you're an old school Rogue and not used to the new thing yet.

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On 9/27/2016 at 10:29 AM, GhostlyAllegiances said:

Alright my friend.

Your stats don't really explain your DPS.

I took a quick look at your logs for Ursoc and Nythendra (because looking at heart of corruption wipes isn't really a good way to figure out what you did wrong) and I instantly can tell you that you are doing some very basic things wrong.

Your Uptime from Rupture and especially Garrote is absolutely aweful and those two Bleeds make up a very big part of your Damage, no matter what build you are using. Not only do they deal massive damage, but also do both enhance your energy regeneration, which lets you perform way more other abilities.

Greetz

 

19 hours ago, Carrn said:

I took a brief look through your Ursoc log, like the fellow above me, and as he said your bleed times need a lot of work

Make sure that you're keeping them up 100% of the time - both Garrote and Rupture. Remember that Garrote can be used out of stealth now as well, which is a big change if you're an old school Rogue and not used to the new thing yet.

 

Thank you both. I did realise that I was dropping the ball on refreshing Rupture and Garrote. Most of the time I feel that it's just carelessness on my part, although for that raid session it bears mentioning that I had just switched from using a Hemo-based rotation to my current rotation, which features Garrote heavily. My questions as such to the both of you are:

I feel that my Rupture downtime is due to me wanting to make sure that I have exactly 6 points each time to throw into it. I read somewhere that I should ONLY ever place Rupture back up if I have 6, and often I have to wait as the energy regen is slowly going back up. What would you two gentlemen suggest I do in this situation? Would it be worth it if I cast Rupture if I have only 5 points, so as to not sacrifice DPS? What if i only have 4?

This weekend when the raids come back up I'll report back, and I anticipate that the DPS would have increased tremendously.

Thank you both again for taking the time to help me.

p.s I've been playing since vanilla. The last time I actively raided was WotLK, and everything was completely different then.

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1 hour ago, chlordiazepoxide said:

Thank you both. I did realise that I was dropping the ball on refreshing Rupture and Garrote. Most of the time I feel that it's just carelessness on my part, although for that raid session it bears mentioning that I had just switched from using a Hemo-based rotation to my current rotation, which features Garrote heavily. My questions as such to the both of you are:

I feel that my Rupture downtime is due to me wanting to make sure that I have exactly 6 points each time to throw into it. I read somewhere that I should ONLY ever place Rupture back up if I have 6, and often I have to wait as the energy regen is slowly going back up. What would you two gentlemen suggest I do in this situation? Would it be worth it if I cast Rupture if I have only 5 points, so as to not sacrifice DPS? What if i only have 4?

This weekend when the raids come back up I'll report back, and I anticipate that the DPS would have increased tremendously.

Thank you both again for taking the time to help me.

p.s I've been playing since vanilla. The last time I actively raided was WotLK, and everything was completely different then.

You should never be in a situation where you need to refresh with less than 6, but yes if you have to do so.

As a rule of thumb:

  • Don't spend a resource unless you need to
  • Refresh Rupture and Garrote within their Pandemic timer 

Basically what that means is don't spend Energy or CP unless you're capping and need to spend them, and always take advantage of the Pandemic effect as often as you can. Refresh Rupture under 8.4s left; doing this means you don't lose any damage.

Rupture should be literally 40% of your damage, which is massive. It's a HUGE deal to have it up 100% of the time. Garrote is 10% on its own. Every other skill will make up roughly 8% or less each, for comparison. Always make sure that you are ready with 6CP when Rupture dips down below the 8.4s mark.

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On 9/30/2016 at 0:22 PM, seriousbob said:

how can i have a 100% uptime on garrote? just with vanish?

As far as I can tell, I don't think it's possible. Say for example, we have Garrote on and Rupture on and we're about to buff the damage with Exsang. It seems to me that the Garrote timer and dps will also be affected by the Exsang, and the Garrote will expire way before the cooldown for Garrote comes back up. But then again I'm a complete nub when it comes to the Rogue's gameplay mechanics, so what do I know? 

Also it seems to me that if I have Rupture buffed with Exsang on, I should allow it to complete the full timer, allowing it to do more DPS, as opposed to refreshing it during the Pandemic timer. Can anyone confirm this?

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14 minutes ago, chlordiazepoxide said:

As far as I can tell, I don't think it's possible. Say for example, we have Garrote on and Rupture on and we're about to buff the damage with Exsang. It seems to me that the Garrote timer and dps will also be affected by the Exsang, and the Garrote will expire way before the cooldown for Garrote comes back up. But then again I'm a complete nub when it comes to the Rogue's gameplay mechanics, so what do I know? 

Also it seems to me that if I have Rupture buffed with Exsang on, I should allow it to complete the full timer, allowing it to do more DPS, as opposed to refreshing it during the Pandemic timer. Can anyone confirm this?

Both correct. If you're using Exsang, the rate @ what the skill ticks will be too fast compared to it's cool down. Don't burn your brain because of that, having less than 100% uptime on it is alright, as long you reapply it whenever it's off CD.

And if you throw another Rupture while a Exsang one is running, you'll pull off the Exsang effect from it and thus decrease your DPS on it (not losing damage, but losing DAMAGE PER SECOND, since the Exsanguinate skill SPEEDS up the bleed ticking). That's why you should be refreshing it right after it falls.

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6 minutes ago, lipsinch said:

Both correct. If you're using Exsang, the rate @ what the skill ticks will be too fast compared to it's cool down. Don't burn your brain because of that, having less than 100% uptime on it is alright, as long you reapply it whenever it's off CD.

And if you throw another Rupture while a Exsang one is running, you'll pull off the Exsang effect from it and thus decrease your DPS on it (not losing damage, but losing DAMAGE PER SECOND, since the Exsanguinate skill SPEEDS up the bleed ticking). That's why you should be refreshing it right after it falls.

I'm going to tattoo part of that somewhere..

A couple more questions: i sometimes find that I have 5 CP (6 if i talent up Deeper Stratagem) while Rupture is 3-4 more seconds from its Pandemic timer. Am I right in assuming that I should just wait for the Pandemic timer to arrive before refreshing Rupture? Or since it's that close, I should just refresh it right away?

Also, with regards to fights like the two dragon bosses in Emerald Nightmare and Il'gynoth (and indeed many others), in the time that it takes me to close the distance with, say an add spawn, should I do nothing? I've had fellow raid members tell me that I should continue to do damage. As I am an Ass Rogue, it seems to me that the only way for me to do the latter is to use Poisoned Knife over and over until I reach melee range. 
 

Apologies for spamming questions, and a thousand thank yous for taking the time to answer.

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41 minutes ago, chlordiazepoxide said:

A couple more questions: i sometimes find that I have 5 CP (6 if i talent up Deeper Stratagem) while Rupture is 3-4 more seconds from its Pandemic timer. Am I right in assuming that I should just wait for the Pandemic timer to arrive before refreshing Rupture? Or since it's that close, I should just refresh it right away?

 

Depends on your Energy level. If you're out of Energy, yes you can wait, but if you are about to cap you can use Envenom and quickly build back up to 5-6CP

 

42 minutes ago, chlordiazepoxide said:

Also, with regards to fights like the two dragon bosses in Emerald Nightmare and Il'gynoth (and indeed many others), in the time that it takes me to close the distance with, say an add spawn, should I do nothing? I've had fellow raid members tell me that I should continue to do damage. As I am an Ass Rogue, it seems to me that the only way for me to do the latter is to use Poisoned Knife over and over until I reach melee range. 

Most of your damage comes from DoTs, so don't worry about it too much. If it takes you enough time to swap that you're going to cap on Energy while moving, yes throwing PK is a good idea.

That said, because so much of your damage comes from DoTs, you can get a head start and swap without really losing much damage on the primary target. I don't mean leave 30 seconds early, but a few second head start to get DoTs up and rolling on the new target isn't a bad idea

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