TheBeninator

What would you change about Shaman?

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There´s no doubt that Shaman is one of the most powerful classes in Hearthstone right now. I want to know how the community would change certain cards in the class that make Shaman what it is. Such as changes to cards like Spirit Claws and Flamewreathed Faceless. It´ll be cool to hear everyone´s ideas. 

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I think it's fine to wait until 4 mana 7/7 and Tunnel Trogg cycle out. Shaman isn't really a problem in wild, and he won't be a problem in standard anymore. 

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35 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

I think it's fine to wait until 4 mana 7/7 and Tunnel Trogg cycle out. Shaman isn't really a problem in wild, and he won't be a problem in standard anymore. 

The 4 mana 7/7 won´t cycle out for a few years but yea eventually shaman will balance out (unless they add a 6 mana 9/9 kappa)

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I was sick of shamans on ladder, until i played Legendary warrior fatigue control deck.

Till then im a happy man having 100% win rate against shamans. The bad thing is that decks like this are very very expensive and not accessible to every player so maybe shaman should see some kind of change.

But i will have to go with @positiv2's opinion on the matter. When shaman's loose their Tunnel Trogg, they loose a lot of early game power. Don't forget that Totem Golem rotates out at the same time.

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27 minutes ago, CodeRazor said:

I was sick of shamans on ladder, until i played Legendary warrior fatigue control deck.

Till then im a happy man having 100% win rate against shamans. The bad thing is that decks like this are very very expensive and not accessible to every player so maybe shaman should see some kind of change.

But i will have to go with @positiv2's opinion on the matter. When shaman's loose their Tunnel Trogg, they loose a lot of early game power. Don't forget that Totem Golem rotates out at the same time.

Cool! I forgot Shaman loses Totem Golem as well as Tunnel Trogg. I guess for now I´ll start playing Control Fatigue Warrior because I have a 10% winrate against shaman atm.

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I pointed out some of my thoughts in this thread, feel free to check them out, and the core idea I'm behind is that Shaman has no single card problem, but rather a "critical mass" consistency issue. 

If we put it up against the wall, like, if I'd get a call from Brode and he would say : "Name a Shaman card, tomorrow we'll ban it", I would debating between Tuskarr Totemic and Totem Golem, and then would probably ask which one they would be OK with.

Now, why these two and not Tunnel Trogg or Flamewreathed Faceless or Spirit Claws?

I've said it already, I just like Tunnel Trogg, not from a personal point of view but as a game design decision. It gave Shaman an elegant solution to the Overload Problem, and I couldn't help feel great about that. Trogg is a part of Shaman's core problems but easily not the biggest one. A 1\3 is sort of a standard for a good 1-mana minion, and it's easy to target with common interaction tools. Creatures like Mana Wyrm and Northshire Cleric have been around for ages, and nobody has problems with those. Much like Trogg, they are very powerful tools to their respective decks and can snowball pretty hard, but it's not a problem because you can easily do 3 damage to them. The comparision is even more striking when you think that Spells and healing dudes is more common than Overload. You don't really invest anything choosing to play Wyrm or Cleric, while Tunnel Trogg in your 30 requres a commitment, a conscious deckbuilding decision. Up to the point when we now have Shaman decks that do not utilize Trogg as their 1-drop of a choice at all, and these decks have found numerous success. Such decision is made with reason, and what's most importantly - with experience and skill guiding a player's judgement.

On the contrary, Totem Golem and Tuskarr Totemic require no commitment, as they are, simply put, "teh good stuffs", cards with a very high absolute power level. You're going to play them regardless of what's your gameplan is, pretty much.

Among the two, I think Golem is more oppresive, but Tuskarr could not exist without it at all, so if we remove Golem, Tuskarr ceases to be, and if such decision is to be made, it would depend on how hard do you want to swing the nerfbat.

Totem Golem is dominant because he is a card that's, unlike Tunnel Trogg, is hard to deal with using conventional tools, whether it's cheap removal or combat damage. Standard format had proven us that 4 health is a magical number, and Golem has it without coincidence. It was not exactly the case back in the days, where Shielded Minibot wrecked him in combat like many other foes and dreams and Death's Bite was a clean answer. Right now, Golem dwarfs the bulk of the field with his intimidating statline. A collateral damage factor is also present - Thing from Below is a popular Shaman card, not like it's busted or something - just a good one, like Trogg - but playing a good card so you can play your other good card is how Xzibit pimps rides and how a threatening consistency is achieved.

Tuskarr Totemic is just everything we hate about Hearthstone - and that is the frustrating, game-breaking RNG. It was voted for on the inital ban list of recent BatStone event and frankly speaking, nobody had missed him. Tuskarr provides huge tempo swings when he teams up with a Totem Golem, and even his low-rolls aren't bad, because of cards like Thing from Below I mentioned. There is no skill involved in whether Tuskarr Totemic is good or bad, and that does not make a healthy gameplay at all, which is why I believe him to be a favorite in "ban me" race for now.

  • An interesting thing, however - if we can call this rant any real - is how Tuskarr can be slightly adjusted without bannings. When Standard hit, this card had received a huge "stealth buff" - Vitality Totem, the blankest blank roll ever, was no longer legal, and a chance to get the good ones skyrocketed. If Blizzard tries to resolve the Shaman problem, what they can do is print a Totem card in the upcoming expansion, preferably a really bad one, so Tuskarr Totemic would "coincidentally" drop in its power level. This is like the smartest idea i've ever had.

I also want to address Spirit Claws because this is interesting : my concerns with them is that they draw on the both sides of the Force. Like with Tunnel Trogg, you have to make a deckbuilding decision - to put some Spell Damage minions so Claws would be "reliable" - but there is Shaman Hero Power that can give you a Spell Damage totem and this part takes no skill. Yeah, there is that sort of "controllable RNG" where you're likely to have the one you need if you jam the button enough times, like when approaching midgame, but when somebody can get lucky and win because turn 2 Hero Power rolled high, that's Tuskarr Totemic level of obnoxious and should not be tolerated. The "decision" part is also tricky - its not like Azure Drake or Bloodmage Thalnos are bad cards themselves, the opportunity cost is rather low; plus they can buff other cards like Maelstrom Portal. Good cards with good cards, dawg.

Last but not least - a certain 4 mana 7\7 that gets so much public attention I believe to be actually OK. My issue with him is that he diverses the threat range of the deck, working as an absolutely other type of threat, a "go tall" guy in a "go wide" deck. It's generally a good thing to do but it's not always affordable, because premier removal in the format can be different. Some classes just don't have it, and it pushes them out of the meta because a 7\7 is so hard to outmuscle normally. A threat that says "have a removal or die" is always a tricky one, but personally I believe it to be a normal state of things. It was more common in the old format where power level was significantly higher. Imagine if we had Big Game Hunter back at 3 mana - Flamewreathed Faceless would be a closed case. And The Big Game Hunt would be a fun subgame to play once again!(no)

I'm sorry for a long post. I'd spice it up with an excuse potato pic or something, but that would make it even longer. 

Shoutout to Control Warrior guys - I hate you because your decks are OP. But Shaman is even more OP. Keep it up!

Edited by Paracel
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On 28.09.2016 at 9:27 PM, positiv2 said:

HERE WE GO BOYS

riPepperonis Shaman my friends

Shaman is just too strong to rest anywhere after two nerfs I guess. We can say they just weakened it just as they made it stronger with ONiK, same change in power levels of class

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Hi, I'm new to this kinda of game and is Shaman even good? I mean I main with a Mage deck but I want to get higher in the ranks.

Thanks for any responses.

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1 hour ago, Killergummy said:

Hi, I'm new to this kinda of game and is Shaman even good? I mean I main with a Mage deck but I want to get higher in the ranks.

Thanks for any responses.

Welcome to Icy Veins and welcome to Hearthstone. Shaman is a strong and versatile class but it is going through some changes due to the nerfs it received. Mage is also my "Main" class, Tempo in particular. Sottle has some really good "Cheap" decks on the site if you want to stop by and check them out. Also you should head here and add your BattleTag and also add some of the other members who play on your server. This game is always better with friends. 

If you play on NA server feel free to add me. KingMe#1210

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Shaman is ridiculously good in Constructed right now, but in terms of Basic/Cheap/Arena balance, class is really mediocre. Its power comes from the adventures at the moment.

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On 10/10/2016 at 8:09 PM, Paracel said:

Shaman is ridiculously good in Constructed right now, but in terms of Basic/Cheap/Arena balance, class is really mediocre. Its power comes from the adventures at the moment.

That sounds like a good candidate to receive a nerf to its basic set of cards. Let's nerf Rockbiter.

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