Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Mykris

Unholy Frenzy why?

10 posts in this topic

Hello everyone, im not big on simulating nor great at theorycrafting.

A thing that we start seeing more and more are Unholy Frenzy used on Xavius, and due to the guide here on icy veins are saying its not an option im really asking why?

if someone here have figgured it out and can tell me why and how it synergize with what.

i would greatly appricate some help here

Sorry for the bad english

Thanks

-Mykris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious where you are seeing this. I checked the top 1000 heroic logs on xavius and less than 5% of players are using it, even then that number was pulled out of my bum, i'm sure the actually percentage is quite lower, I can scroll for a loooong time before i see another person using it. So, I can't say unholy frenzy is that popular at all among competitive players striving to parse, which in itself says a lot. People who focus on parsing typically ignore mechanics and strive for highest dps possible on a fight. Unholy frenzy just really can't hold a candle to castigator at all.

As far as those using it I can only imagine two possibilities, one they are doing it wrong, but two is specifically looking at how xavius works. Phase 1 and 2 are your basic raid fight. Phase 3 is a rapid horrible race to try and burn him down as fast as possible. Phase 3 has no mechanics other then KILL IT NOWWWWWW. So, my best guess is they are taking unholy frenzy in the thought that it will increase their burst dps in that phase, that's the best explanation I can muster. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beat me to it. Was just typing. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if u check dks like kanj from danish terrace he logged out with unholy frenzy and necrosis ofc we cant tell how good it is or if he did log out like that to actually confuse people, i just expect he knows what he is doing so there must be a reason for it right ?

Edit. i would like to know in When to utilize a build like that

Edited by Mykris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mykris said:

if u check dks like kanj from danish terrace he logged out with unholy frenzy and necrosis ofc we cant tell how good it is or if he did log out like that to actually confuse people, i just expect he knows what he is doing so there must be a reason for it right ?

Edit. i would like to know in When to utilize a build like that

that's a really really specific single example friend. That player could have just been farting around on a target dummy or even then doing something pvp wise. The actions of a single individual don't make something the go to ideal. Making a guide about ideal builds you need to look sims, logs, theorycrafting work. However, logs are really the realistic truth of ability variety. What the top 100-200 people are doing to hit the highest numbers is what is likely favored, if something is super powerful and new you'll see more players utilizing it, with such a low percent using it, we can surmise its not good.

really following the mindset, top 1000 dps in the world aren't using it, sims don't advise it, its really just not a good pve talent at all (might be for pvp dunno really).

as far as using it in a build.... i wouldn't. I mean if you chose it , it's completely passive so there's nothing to do. However, if going for a burst build you would still take castigator over it. There is no currently known effective pve build that utilizes unholy frenzy. 

So, the DK you mentioned, was either playing around with target dummies or doing some pvp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, demonardvark said:

that's a really really specific single example friend. That player could have just been farting around on a target dummy or even then doing something pvp wise. The actions of a single individual don't make something the go to ideal. Making a guide about ideal builds you need to look sims, logs, theorycrafting work. However, logs are really the realistic truth of ability variety. What the top 100-200 people are doing to hit the highest numbers is what is likely favored, if something is super powerful and new you'll see more players utilizing it, with such a low percent using it, we can surmise its not good.

really following the mindset, top 1000 dps in the world aren't using it, sims don't advise it, its really just not a good pve talent at all (might be for pvp dunno really).

as far as using it in a build.... i wouldn't. I mean if you chose it , it's completely passive so there's nothing to do. However, if going for a burst build you would still take castigator over it. There is no currently known effective pve build that utilizes unholy frenzy. 

So, the DK you mentioned, was either playing around with target dummies or doing some pvp. 

i know the last thing he did last night was killing Xavius mythic. but ur right its prob a misunderstanding, whenever we saw the (at the time) rank 1 on heroic xavius Log here. i just though there was somthing about it. but as u said there is no logical reason for using it. 

Thanks for the quick replies!

-Mykris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mykris said:

i know the last thing he did last night was killing Xavius mythic. but ur right its prob a misunderstanding, whenever we saw the (at the time) rank 1 on heroic xavius Log here. i just though there was somthing about it. but as u said there is no logical reason for using it. 

Thanks for the quick replies!

-Mykris

well also checking the logs that individual uses unholy frenzy on every single fight, not just specifically xavius. They used it on nythendra and illy as well. It appears that individual just seems to like that talent. They are certainly doing great dps. However, looking at their gear I can give you an estimation as to why they were actually using it. 

If you look at their gear, they have the instructors fourth lesson legendary item. This causes you to burst additional wounds with scourge strike. I imagine the mentality is that they dropped castigator because crits can cause additional wounds to be burst as well. I imagine their mindset was that they can't keep wounds up using both, that they need to build 7 ish stacks before casting scourge strike otherwise they will burn all their runes in one hit and not be able to burst any more. 

On paper this is actually sound logic, however, castigator also applies more wounds as well. So, for wound bursting flow they may have found unholy frenzy limits the number of wound stacks they need before scourge striking. In this scenario clawing shadows would be a poor choice just because of damage issues, so, the only reasonable option left is unholy frenzy. 

So, looking at their gear, I can see the mindset, its because of their legendary that they changed the talents. However, even with instructors fourth I'd still take castigator because it can help build more wounds to burst, but, I can understand their reasoning for choosing unholy frenzy in this case. 

so the logs couldn't solve this mystery but the armory could. so there was a reason that made logical sense :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, demonardvark said:

well also checking the logs that individual uses unholy frenzy on every single fight, not just specifically xavius. They used it on nythendra and illy as well. It appears that individual just seems to like that talent. They are certainly doing great dps. However, looking at their gear I can give you an estimation as to why they were actually using it. 

If you look at their gear, they have the instructors fourth lesson legendary item. This causes you to burst additional wounds with scourge strike. I imagine the mentality is that they dropped castigator because crits can cause additional wounds to be burst as well. I imagine their mindset was that they can't keep wounds up using both, that they need to build 7 ish stacks before casting scourge strike otherwise they will burn all their runes in one hit and not be able to burst any more. 

On paper this is actually sound logic, however, castigator also applies more wounds as well. So, for wound bursting flow they may have found unholy frenzy limits the number of wound stacks they need before scourge striking. In this scenario clawing shadows would be a poor choice just because of damage issues, so, the only reasonable option left is unholy frenzy. 

So, looking at their gear, I can see the mindset, its because of their legendary that they changed the talents. However, even with instructors fourth I'd still take castigator because it can help build more wounds to burst, but, I can understand their reasoning for choosing unholy frenzy in this case. 

so the logs couldn't solve this mystery but the armory could. so there was a reason that made logical sense :)

Thanks a ton for this reply, i happen to sit with the legendary wrist i might try it for giggles on normal see how it feels. i completely get the point with keeping castigator for applying more wounds(and busting).

once again thanks alot for the reply!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to my own theory testing and watching of players logs and etc. I can say that unholy frenzy isn't nearly as far behind as people think it is, though it requires very specific min maxing keeping the buff up 100% as well as the ring that increases all autos by 10%, as well as the instructors fourth lesson, and the usage of infected claw, on top of you having to be poorly optimized such as having high haste/verse and low amounts of crit for this to become more optimal, which in some cases can actually be higher dps than castigor.

Example is that lets say you have a good amount of crit but your not equpiting all your highest ilvl pieces because it just doesn't play out better because of your low amount of crit with that gear, but lets say you can achieve 7 ilvls more but have to have low amounts with this swap this may be the time you would consider this choice. ( also requires instructors fourth lesson) 

TLDR: very specific situations it can be just as good if not better with really good min maxing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drtain said:

According to my own theory testing and watching of players logs and etc. I can say that unholy frenzy isn't nearly as far behind as people think it is, though it requires very specific min maxing keeping the buff up 100% as well as the ring that increases all autos by 10%, as well as the instructors fourth lesson, and the usage of infected claw, on top of you having to be poorly optimized such as having high haste/verse and low amounts of crit for this to become more optimal, which in some cases can actually be higher dps than castigor.

Example is that lets say you have a good amount of crit but your not equpiting all your highest ilvl pieces because it just doesn't play out better because of your low amount of crit with that gear, but lets say you can achieve 7 ilvls more but have to have low amounts with this swap this may be the time you would consider this choice. ( also requires instructors fourth lesson) 

TLDR: very specific situations it can be just as good if not better with really good min maxing.

The legendary system this time in many ways makes things a pain in the butt for theorycrafters. However, the icy guide i point everyone to is the frost mage guide. There you can see little check boxes that have items or talents and as you check them the guide changes. The DK guides are in the process of being updated. I can't say that the checkbox thing is coming, but yes, depending on legendary the ideal talents change a bit. Even then as artifact progression goes other talents become more viable, like double doom makes necrosis very easy to use with a simple macro. Plus as people push mythic progression and potentially hit diminshing return stat points they start to invest in other things for the gains.

tldr guides are always in process of upgrade, and the best talent build always changes based upon gear, ilvl, and other factors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Tauradinn
      Hello, so I started playing DK at the launch of legion, and have enjoyed it so far. I was initially unholy but then changed to frost recently, and am enjoying both specs except for one thing, namely my performance. So there are three frost DK's in my raid and lately the other two are always towards the top of the meter while I'm towards the bottom. There is no large gear difference (I think they both have a couple ilvls on me, but I have the legendary belt), so I was wondering what I was doing wrong. Upon looking at logs I found they both casted significantly more spells than me on all fronts (FS, obliterate, etc.). I also noticed that I need to keep icy talons up more, but can someone tell me why I'm casting so many fewer spells than them (there is no large haste difference, the armory has us all at 30something% haste, even though one of them (Hungerghost) and I only have 20something, and I'm sure the same applies to the other DK), or if there is some other problem, then what is it and how can I fix it? Thanks.
      (will update these links if they're not working (I got an SSL error))
      My armory: https://us.battle.net/login/en/?ref=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/deathwing/Crohost/&app=com-wow&opt
      other DK (Hungerghost): https://us.battle.net/login/en/?ref=http://us.battle.net/wow/character/kalecgos/Hungerghost/&app=com-wow&opt
      other DK (Selerot): https://us.battle.net/login/en/?ref=http://us.battle.net/wow/character/shattered-halls/Selerot/&app=com-wow&opt
      My parsings page/all my logs (if you want to look at more): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/11054914/latest/
      ToV Normal Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9JVdT8WK2Dn1f4wy
      Mythic EN Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GLJDKZ27b6P1pMvd
      Heroic EN Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wrHQf6Wztx3gcGPa
      Heroic ToV Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mGDLK2PWRN9C1ax8#fight=1 (note, I'm only in the first six pulls (AKA all the wipes) on Odyn)
      Videos from ToV (they correspond with pulls 1 and 2 from the logs):
      Pull 1: 
      Pull 2: 
       
    • By VeeImperium
      Stormrage [A] - 3/7 Mythic - 7/7 Heroic - FRI & MON - 9pm-12am EST
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Imperium, a progressive and well-respected raiding guild. Seeking like-minded individuals to join our team.  We provide good guild culture, consistent loot distribution, laid-back leadership, like-minded, courteous, kind, and polite people.
      Our team has been playing together for 8 years. We have always maintained a strong progressive raid team in 10 and 25 mans with a very minimal raid schedule. When considering new members, we seek individuals who have excellent communication skills, a high level of maturity, and a manner of adult professionalism.

      Raid Info
      Friday & Monday 9:00pm - 12:00am EST
      Emerald Nightmare - 3/7 Mythic - 7/7 Heroic
       
      What to expect from us...
      - Raids that start and end on time.
      - A community of in-game support and socializing, Veteran players, 980+ Characters, 580+ Active Accounts, 650+ Level 100s.
      - Opportunity to be part of our weekly raid sales group
      - Fair and consistent leadership that only accepts quality players, and understands mistakes can happen.
      - A friendly and competitive dps environment, with frequent 95%+ parses
      - An opportunity to see all the content WoW has to offer.
      - Raid Consumables, and Enchantments provided.
      - Adult atmosphere, average age 25.
      - We DO NOT recruit for bench positions.

      What we expect from you...
      - Desire to be part of a team. This includes being on Mumble and taking an interest in the guilds objectives, upholding its principles and helping to secure its longevity.
      - Great verbal communication during raid.
      - Good attitude and mutual respect towards fellow guild and raid team members.
      - High to perfect raid attendance.
      - Perseverance. Wiping is part of the game, and staying motivated and positive is a must.
      - Know your class and all of its abilities. Have a viable off spec for the team.
      - Be active and contribute to the guild forums.

      Currently Recruiting:
      1 Melee DPS
      1 Ranged DPS
      1 Healer: Holy Priest, Holy Paladin or Resto Shaman
      Exceptional players are always considered.

      Visit ImperiumGuild.ca to apply or to learn more about us.
      Vee#1811
      Mochi#11316
      Roxycodone#1543
      Nyyankees29#1435
      Skratchh#1194
       
    • By Archimage
      Druid Talent Macros:
      Restoration:
      /use [talent:1/1] Prosperity; [talent:1/2] Cenarion Ward; [talent:1/3] Abundance
      /use [talent:2/1] Renewal; [talent:2/2] Displacer Beast; [talent:2/3] Wild Charge
      /use [talent:3/1] Moonkin Form; [talent:3/2] Cat Form; [talent:3/3] Bear Form
      /use [talent:4/1] Mighty Bash; [talent:4/2] Mass Entanglement; [talent:4/3] Typhoon
      /use [talent:5/1] Soul of the Forest; [talent:5/2] Incarnation: Tree of Life; [talent:5/3] Cultivation
      /use [talent:6/1] Spring Blossoms; [talent:6/2] Inner Peace; [talent:6/3] Germination
      /use [talent:7/1] Moment of Clarity; [talent:7/2] Stonebark; [talent:7/3] Flourish
      Guardian:
      /use [talent:1/1] Brambles; [talent:1/2] Bristling Fur; [talent:1/3] Blood Frenzy
      /use [talent:2/1] Guttural Roars; [talent:2/2] Displacer Beast; [talent:2/3] Wild Charge
      /use [stance:1,talent:3/1] Moonkin Form; [stance:1,talent:3/2] Cat Form; Bear Form
      /use [talent:4/1] Mighty Bash; [talent:4/2] Mass Entanglement; [talent:4/3] Typhoon
      /use [talent:5/1] Soul of the Forest; [talent:5/2] Incarnation: Guardian of Ursoc; [talent:5/3] Galactic Guardian
      /use [talent:6/1] Earthwarden; [talent:6/2] Guardian of Elune; [talent:6/3] Survival of the Fittest
      /use [talent:7/1] Rend and Tear; [talent:7/2] Lunar Beam; [talent:7/3] Pulverize
      Balance:
      /use [talent:1/1] Force of Nature; [talent:1/2] Warrior of Elune; [talent:1/3] Starlord
      /use [talent:2/1] Renewal; [talent:2/2] Displacer Beast; [talent:2/3] Wild Charge
      /use [stance:4, talent:3/1] Cat Form; [stance:4,talent:3/2] Bear Form; Moonkin Form
      /use [talent:4/1] Mighty Bash; [talent:4/2] Mass Entanglement; [talent:4/3] Typhoon
      /use [talent:5/1] Soul of the Forest; [talent:5/2] Incarnation: Chosen of Elune; [talent:5/3] Stellar Flare
      /use [talent:6/1] Shooting Stars; [talent:6/2] Astral Communion; [talent:6/3] Blessing of the Ancients
      /use [talent:7/1] Fury of Elune; [talent:7/2] Stellar Drift; [talent:7/3] Nature's Balance
       
      Feral:
      /use [talent:1/1] Predator; [talent:1/2] Blood Scent; [talent:1/3] Lunar Inspiration
      /use [talent:2/1] Renewal; [talent:2/2] Displacer Beast; [talent:2/3] Wild Charge
      /use [stance:2,talent:3/1] Moonkin Form; [stance:2,talent:3/2] Bear Form; Cat Form
      /use [talent:4/1] Mighty Bash; [talent:4/2] Mass Entanglement; [talent:4/3] Typhoon
      /use [talent:5/1] Soul of the Forest; [talent:5/2] Incarnation: King of the Jungle; [talent:5/3] Savage Roar
      /use [talent:6/1] Sabertooth; [talent:6/2] Jagged Wounds; [talent:6/3] Elune's Guidance
      /use [talent:7/1] Brutal Slash; [talent:7/2] Bloodtalons; [talent:7/3] Moment of Clarity
       
      General Focus Macros:
      /cast [@focus, exists, nodead][] Entangling Roots
    • By vanillaice
      Hey all I'm a returning player and finally hit 110 on my death knight yesterday. I am currently playing a frost dk, but I'm not enjoying it as much as I thought I would. Unholy on the other hand looks pretty sweet... but from what I hear they are in a bad state atm. This might be to early to speculate, but anyone know if buffs are coming this next patch? Should I reroll now before I invest thousands of AP into frost relic? As cool as unholy looks, don't want to play a doomed spec...
    • By tuvarkz
      http://www.wowhead.com/item=133974/lanathels-lament#comments
      So, the item specifies Death and Decay-which Unholy also has-does it work with the spec? And how good is it in fights where you can have those 10 seconds reliably enough?