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Disguised Toast Analyses the Tuskarr Totemic Nerf

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Disguised Toast has released a YouTube video talking about the Tuskarr Totemic nerf.

In the video he looks at 50,000 games from HSReplay, to see what impact each different result from Tuskarr Totemic had on the outcome of games. The statistics were all taken from games played in the last two weeks, and appear to show that the nerf is very strong within current Shaman builds.

Of course Shaman can adjust to make more use of basic totems, cards like Bloodlust or Totemic Might can still take advantage of these wide boards. It was also notable that Wrath of Air Totem is bottom of the pile of the basic totems. With Spirit Claws as a staple in recent Shaman decks , I would have thought it would be the best basic totem. Any theories welcomed!

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I agree the data looks paradoxal, but I came up with an explaination to it. Warning : it may be an inaccurate one.

The thing is, in the Shaman decks, what you'd want to do with your Spell Damage totems is to instantly capitalize on them via many of your spells - Lightning Bolt, and them more importantly - Maelstrom Portal and Lightning Storm. And usually it makes sense to do so via Hero Power - because it's less expensive and simply put, has a higher chance rolling the spell damage. Strategical output of getting your sweeper down buffed sometimes can overcome the need to spend your mana efficiently, by playing Tuskarr.

Spirit Claws follow the same pattern as spells do, but a weapon has some advantage as it can be set up and actually benefit when you jam Tuskarr and get Wrath of Air. That being said, most of the things you'd really want to kill with claws are coming down before Tuskarr, and even then, the same strategical output can make you press the button instead.

As for when Tuskarr rolls Spell Damage and you have no follow-up, against high-pressure decks totem probably dies and against low pressure decks the spell damage probably doesn't matter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to imply that Wrath of Air is somehow not the best totem to get off the Hero Power or Tuskarr Totemic was a balanced card. It's just that this specific outcome came in handy less often than it could.

Tuskarr was a filler card. But a really powerful filler card in a class that had serious problems around mana curve and resource development, a class that was constricted by Overload mechanic pretty hard. Not only it was pretty cool to cast, it opened up deck building space for other things and made them work, like playing Feral Spirit in Midrange, or Azure Drake and Thing from Below in Aggro builds. I won't do the guessing game much, but it is necessary for Shamans now to find a replacement that can solve them, again. Perhaps, even a nerfed Tuskarr can still pay his bills. (I'm definetly not regretting cashing in my golden copy, though. Turns out I love a good bargain more than swag.)

 

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2 hours ago, Paracel said:

Tuskarr was a filler card. But a really powerful filler card in a class that had serious problems around mana curve and resource development, a class that was constricted by Overload mechanic pretty hard.

I'd say it was far more than a filler card, unless you count cards like sorcerer apprentice or possessed villager as filler in their classes too. It was an auto-include in any deck. If you pulled either mana tide for draw or totem golem you could have ended the game on turn 4 just by the early value (especially dropping a 7/7 on curve because of no overload). I really think this was the most important subtle change they made to the balance. It will still be really useful in certain decks, but no longer a 100% include.

I would argue healing stream is the most critical totem for him to drop of his 4 now, nothing stalls aggro/zoo like some stable healing for trades.

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1 hour ago, Laragon said:

I'd say it was far more than a filler card, unless you count cards like sorcerer apprentice or possessed villager as filler in their classes too. It was an auto-include in any deck.

I apologize for a misunderstanding caused.

What I wanted to say is that there is no incredible strategic value in slotting Tuskarr Totemic in your Shaman deck. You just happen to have a real lack of good 3-drop, and he is the best guy in the market. And yay, he buffs Thing from Below, too!

If you compare it to Sorcerer's Apprentice you're mentioning, then Apprentice I would call a "core" card. It has numerous synergies within the deck and contributes to an overall "get ahead on tempo via mana" strategy of Mage. And then, protecting your, let's say, Mana Wyrm with Mirror Image or Arcane Missiles/Arcane Blast is a pretty strategic thing to do in that context, as opposed to "just" dropping bodies to the board.

Possessed Villager in this context is also "core", it is surely replaceable, but it contributes to the strategy of the deck, fueled by creature critical mass that Villager creates together with its peers.

I may use terms that are not clear, and maybe that what can cause some problems. It's a shame TCGs are not a real science. We have theories but we keep arguing about terminology. Tempo was changed, like 6 or 8 times in the past 10 years. Have we changed anything about gravity?

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9 hours ago, Paracel said:

Have we changed anything about gravity?

Spoiler

Still- tentative confirmation of the existence of the Higgs boson at the CERN in Switzerland, which has some impact on our understanding of what precisely gravity is.

I'll let myself out now.

 

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Tuskarr was a card which could be 3 mana 6/6 in two bodies, or 3 mana 3/5 plus draw a card (at least one) in two bodies again and these options made Tuskarr really powerful and also hated.

Now, it is either 3 mana 3/4 or 4/3, which is still pretty good (not overpowered though) and it is the best 3-drop for shaman (except Feral Spirit maybe, but it also has overload, and a heavy one for turn 3 actually), and if you are playing aggro shaman, you cannot really come up with a deck that lacks a 3-drop, especially something like Tuskarr (it is still powerful and has good synergy with Thing from Below and time to time Spirit Claws and Maelstrom Portal too) I can't believe people really try to make aggro shaman and midrange shaman without Tuskarr already. In midrange shaman decks, Tuskarr has a good synergy with the cards above and also mighty Thunder Bluff Valiant

Only thing I can see in general is spoiled shaman players saying 'Why do you nerf an overpowered card and make it normal, we can't take it, now Tuskarr feels so normal and balanced, I can't play it anymore'.

 

 

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1 hour ago, FanOfValeera said:

Tuskarr feels so normal and balanced, I can't play it anymore

Maybe it should have been made 4-mana instead of 3-mana, then they could have buffed the stats to 7/7. 

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1 hour ago, FanOfValeera said:

Now, it is either 3 mana 3/4 or 4/3, which is still pretty good (not overpowered though) and it is the best 3-drop for shaman (except Feral Spirit maybe, but it also has overload, and a heavy one for turn 3 actually),

You're not evaluating this right. It is not a 3/4 and neither it is a 4/3. What Tuskarr Totemic right now is a 3 mana Bloodfen Raptor - that's not a good ratio - and then a totem that alone is not even worth a card. You have to get lucky to even be on terms with Razorfen Hunter, and that card is Constructed unplayable, even though it's also "a 3/4".

Shaman has numerous mediocre 3-mana options, and Tuskarr is the worst among them. Feral Spirit wins because it has a bunch of relevant text on it and scales into mid/late game better.

1 hour ago, FanOfValeera said:

if you are playing aggro shaman, you cannot really come up with a deck that lacks a 3-drop, especially something like Tuskarr (it is still powerful and has good synergy with Thing from Below and time to time Spirit Claws and Maelstrom Portal too) 

Old Aggro Shaman decks ever since XiXo's innovation to include Tuskarr and Thing were existing in a deck building space, created by what old Tuskarr was - an ability to give you board, cards, no overload and totem count at the same time; a chance to play a ton of damage cards while still having muscle on your bones. Because the parts were good alone it was viable. Now you have to Totem Up! harder, and that does not make a good offense.

There is an excellent Argent Horserider for your needs. Also, if you have any information about a viable Aggro Shaman deck with proven results, let me know, because AFAIK, there is simply none such thing.

1 hour ago, FanOfValeera said:

I can't believe people really try to make aggro shaman and midrange shaman without Tuskarr already. In midrange shaman decks, Tuskarr has a good synergy with the cards above and also mighty Thunder Bluff Valiant

Well, we already made the decks, and so far HCT Last Call EU Qualifiers had 100% Shaman representation. Note the amount of Tuskarr Totemic (spoiler : zero copies, even in the Totem Shaman deck). Still waiting for the ladder data to gather up, but I'm sure Shaman's 25% will be something like reasonable popular 10-12%.

1 hour ago, FanOfValeera said:

Only thing I can see in general is spoiled shaman players saying 'Why do you nerf an overpowered card and make it normal, we can't take it, now Tuskarr feels so normal and balanced, I can't play it anymore'.

You are overreacting as well as people who make such claims do. Yes, card is dead. No, deck is not dead. You can still ride it for some relatively easy ranks.

Meta is adjusting. There are decks that can combat Shaman now pretty effectively - Warrior, Mage, even Druid and Rogue now stand a chance. Format does not mess around, a lot of other powerful things are going on - even just the 3 drops, for the sake of discussion about Tuskarr, are spitting fire, making pew-pew with fire, give you free manatoast people or it's a straight up Feral Rage. We are still in a pretty powerful environment.

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46 minutes ago, Paracel said:

 

You're not evaluating this right. It is not a 3/4 and neither it is a 4/3. What Tuskarr Totemic right now is a 3 mana Bloodfen Raptor - that's not a good ratio - and then a totem that alone is not even worth a card. You have to get lucky to even be on terms with Razorfen Hunter, and that card is Constructed unplayable, even though it's also "a 3/4".

Shaman has numerous mediocre 3-mana options, and Tuskarr is the worst among them. Feral Spirit wins because it has a bunch of relevant text on it and scales into mid/late game better.

Old Aggro Shaman decks ever since XiXo's innovation to include Tuskarr and Thing were existing in a deck building space, created by what old Tuskarr was - an ability to give you board, cards, no overload and totem count at the same time; a chance to play a ton of damage cards while still having muscle on your bones. Because the parts were good alone it was viable. Now you have to Totem Up! harder, and that does not make a good offense.

There is an excellent Argent Horserider for your needs. Also, if you have any information about a viable Aggro Shaman deck with proven results, let me know, because AFAIK, there is simply none such thing.

Well, we already made the decks, and so far HCT Last Call EU Qualifiers had 100% Shaman representation. Note the amount of Tuskarr Totemic (spoiler : zero copies, even in the Totem Shaman deck). Still waiting for the ladder data to gather up, but I'm sure Shaman's 25% will be something like reasonable popular 10-12%.

You are overreacting as well as people who make such claims do. Yes, card is dead. No, deck is not dead. You can still ride it for some relatively easy ranks.

Meta is adjusting. There are decks that can combat Shaman now pretty effectively - Warrior, Mage, even Druid and Rogue now stand a chance. Format does not mess around, a lot of other powerful things are going on - even just the 3 drops, for the sake of discussion about Tuskarr, are spitting fire, making pew-pew with fire, give you free manatoast people or it's a straight up Feral Rage. We are still in a pretty powerful environment.

Isn't it great we have such different opinions on... well, everything

Only thing I can see in general is spoiled shaman players saying 'Why do you nerf an overpowered card and make it normal, we can't take it, now Tuskarr feels so normal and balanced, I can't play it anymore'.

This part was a joke, no one says that, I am not overreacting, so calm down a little.

And then;

I can't believe people really try to make aggro shaman and midrange shaman without Tuskarr already. In midrange shaman decks, Tuskarr has a good synergy with the cards above and also mighty Thunder Bluff Valiant

Ok, maybe I am overreacting a bit here. 

For Razorfen Hunter, you are evaluating things a little bit wrong here. Bringing a random 1/1 is different than bringing a totem, I am not really gonna write about synergies, including all cards with links is just exhausting, also how do you write different things once you added the card link?

I know there are decks who can fight shaman, and Tuskarr nerf is big deal, and the card is weaker, but definitely not dead.

Also, all these 3-drops you mentioned here are simply irrelevant with what I am trying to say , unless you are talking about how 3-drop of shaman can be answered by other classes with their own 3-drops. Then, yes, you're right.

 

 

Edited by FanOfValeera

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34 minutes ago, FanOfValeera said:

For Razorfen Hunter, you are evaluating things a little bit wrong here. Bringing a random 1/1 is different than bringing a totem, I am not really gonna write about synergies, including all cards with links is just exhausting, also how do you write different things once you added the card link?

I know there are decks who can fight shaman, and Tuskarr nerf is big deal, and the card is weaker, but definitely not dead.

Also, all these 3-drops you mentioned here are simply irrelevant with what I am trying to say , unless you are talking about how 3-drop of shaman can be answered by other classes with their own 3-drops. Then, yes, you're right.

I write things under card links by pressing "Add Link for Hearthstone Card" button, writing down the name so UI gets me the card ID and color, then I delete the card name and write a bad joke there. That's how a 4 mana 7/7 becomes a 4 mana 7/7.

My point about other 3-drop was, to paraphrase The Incredibles(2004) memefamous movie, is that when every card is busted, there are no busted cards. Tuskarr is not the only bad guy on the block.

About the evaluation of Tuskarr and Razorfen comparison, I don't think we can find a middle ground here that fast. I have experience with different contemporary Shamans and I've found the lack of Tuskarr power disturbing. The Hivemind seems to agree with me. The power of totems comes from the fact you don't use actual cards via Hero Power. For all the slower builds and even more Totem-reliant synergies, just pressing the button is better a lot of the time. I mentioned how it looks like first-person in my first post here.

Maybe I've just switched from "idk we can try Tuskarr" to "no Tuskarr is terribad" without telling everyone and now I think everyone knows that latter is true. Sorry. I don't have a Twitter account.

Yeah, and sorry about the joke part. But I've seen people actually saying that on the Internets!

Edited by Paracel

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      The Murder at Castle Nathria Mega Bundle includes 80 Murder at Castle Nathria card packs, 5 Golden Murder at Castle Nathria card packs, two random Murder at Castle Nathria Legendary cards, the Sire Denathrius Warrior hero skin, the Denathrius card back, the Sandy Shores Battlegrounds Board, and 10 Mercenaries Packs!*

      The Murder at Castle Nathria Bundle includes 60 Murder at Castle Nathria card packs, 2 random Murder at Castle Nathria Legendary cards, and the Denathrius card back!

      Pre-purchase
      * Battleground Perks are not included in the Mega Bundle pre-purchase this time. We’re reworking how Battlegrounds Perks and rewards work for next Battlegrounds season. Until then, some of the current Perks are being extended. Check out the Patch Notes and stay tuned for more details.

    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Handbuff Paladin Deck.
    • By Staff
      A new Hearthstone update prepares the Tavern for United in Stormwind, launching August 3. Here are the official patch notes.
      (Source)
      The 21.0 patch prepares the Tavern for United in Stormwind, launching August 3. It also brings a new Hero and cosmetics for Battlegrounds, a major update for Duels, an Arena rotation, and more.
      You can check out all 135 new cards included in United in Stormwind on the card library here.
      Battlegrounds Updates
      NEW HERO
      Galewing Dungar’s Gryphon Choose a flightpath. Complete it to get a bonus!
      Players with Battlegrounds Perks will have early access to Galewing before it's formally released on August 10.
      Duels Updates
      When the 21.0 patch goes live on July 27, all players’ Duels ratings will be reset and the pool of eligible cards you can use to build your 15-card start deck will be updated as follows:
      (NEW) United in Stormwind Wailing Caverns Mini-Set Forged in the Barrens The Darkmoon Races Mini-Set Madness at the Darkmoon Faire Scholomance Academy (NEW) Kobolds & Catacombs Journey to Un’Goro One Night in Kharazan Whispers of the Old Gods Curse of Naxxramas Legacy (Basic/Classic) Core NEW PASSIVE TREASURES
      Party Replacement At the start of your turn, summon a 2/2 Adventurer with a random bonus effect.
      Inspiring Presence After you play a Legendary minion, reduce the cost of a random minion in your hand by (1).
      Greedy Gains Your minions have +2/+2 but cost (2) more (up to 10).
      Meek Mastery Your Neutral minions cost (1) less and have +1/+1.
      Legendary Loot At the start of the game, equip a random Legendary weapon.
      Deathly Death! After a friendly Deathrattle minion dies, destroy the minion with the lowest Health.
      Ooops, All Spells! At the start of the game, destroy all minions in your deck. Your spells cost (1) less and gain +2 Spell Damage.
      BANNED CARDS & BUCKETS
      The following cards have been banned from between-game card buckets and will not be Discoverable:
      Final Showdown              Lost in the Park Defend the Dwarven District       Sorcerer's Gambit            Rise to the Occasion        Seek Guidance  Find the Imposter            Command the Elements The Demon Seed             Raid the Docks  Other Banned cards:
      Unstable Evolution is banned from card buckets but will still be Discoverable. Maestra of the Masquerade is banned from deckbuilding, card buckets, and will not be Discoverable. Seven new designer card buckets have been added as well:
      Furious Fel (Demon Hunter) AHHHH RATS!!!! (Hunter) Fire!!! (Mage) SI:7 (Rogue) ARRRRRRG! (Warrior) Auction House (Neutral) Live to Win (Neutral) Smart buckets have also been updated to include the two new card sets, and two previously missed card sets: Legacy (Classic/Basic) and Demon Hunter Initiate. Lastly, you’ll be able to find United in Stormwind cards in Duels card buckets after the patch goes live and before the expansion launches.
      Arena Rotation

      When United in Stormwind launches on August 3, the Arena will include cards from the following sets:
      United in Stormwind Forged in the Barrens Wailing Caverns Mini-Set Madness at the Darkmoon Faire Darkmoon Races Mini-Set The Witchwood Saviors of Uldum Rastakhan's Rumble Core Book of Heroes Illidan – Coming August 10

      After regaining his freedom, Illidan was eager to prove himself once and for all. But even as he journeyed far from his homeland and joined forces with new allies, the thirst for power never left him. It was only a matter of time before it interfered with his judgment, resulting in more dire consequences than ever before…Defeating all 8 bosses in this linear adventure will reward 1 Demon Hunter pack, containing only Demon Hunter cards from Standard.
      United in Stormwind Rewards Track & Tavern Pass
      When the Rewards Track refreshes when United in Stormwind launches, all players will automatically be granted any unclaimed rewards on both the free track and the Tavern Pass track (if purchased), and a completely new Rewards Track of unlockable loot will take its place.

      The Forged in the Barrens Tavern Pass will expire with the launch of United in Stormwind and a new Tavern Pass will be made available for purchase—offering a host of brand-new cosmetic rewards and XP boosts.

      Learn more about the United in Stormwind Rewards Track and Tavern Pass here.
      As a reminder, Battlegrounds Perks are now available as a standalone purchase, separate from the Tavern Pass.
      New Cosmetic Coins
      Two new Cosmetic Coins are being added with United in Stormwind, the Stormwind coin and the Lordaeron coin. The Stormwind coin is obtainable by completing the first 90 levels of the Rewards Track with the Tavern Pass. The Lordaeron coin is obtainable by collecting 135 unique United in Stormwind cards.

      Keep in mind that United in Stormwind will have a 35-card Mini-Set that will make it easier to reach both the 25 total United in Stormwind Legendary cards for the Archbishop Benedictus Diamond card reward and the 135 total United in Stormwind cards for the Lordaeron Cosmetic Coin. We’ll have more information to share about the United in Stormwind Mini-Set in the coming months.
      Bug Fixes & Game Improvements
      Fixed a bug where Shenanigans would not transform Soul Fragments into Bananas. Fixed a bug where Wicked Stab could be upgraded by cards that temporarily increase mana. Fixed a bug where Shan’do Wildclaw would not lay flat on the board. Fixed a bug where Defender would not play its VO when summoned by Noble Sacrifice. Fixed a bug where golden Soul of the Forest would not summon golden Treants. Fixed a bug where golden Ancestral Spirit would not summon a golden minion. Fixed a bug where golden Grave Rune would not summon golden minions. Fixed a bug where golden Primal Talisman would not summon golden minions. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Y’shaarj’s Battlegrounds Hero Power would not take its newly summoned minion into account when deciding which warband attacked first. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Baron Rivendare was causing visual issues when in a warband with golden Kaboom Bot. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Galakrond’s Greed was missing a tooltip for Discover. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Come One, Come All! Was missing a tooltip for Discover. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Avatar of N’Zoth was missing a tooltip for Deathrattle. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Sprout It Out! Was missing a tooltip for Taunt. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Hero Powers for Aranna Starseeker, Infinite Toki, Millhouse Manastorm, Nozdormu, and Tess Greymane were missing a tooltip for Refresh. Fixed a Duels bug where Diamond cards would only be Diamond in appearance for the first game of a run. Fixed a Duels bug where Lone Champion and minions summoned by Gift of Luminance were not buffed by Hold the Line. Updated the description of the Roguish Maneuvers Hero Power in Duels to be more accurate. Fixed a bug with Book of Mercenaries Guff where A Party of Adventurers will cast Against All Odds, even if they have board control. Fixed a bug where one of Lady Katrana Prestor’s emotes was showing incorrect text. Searching “Refund” in the Collection will now populate with cards eligible for a dust refund. Pressing and holding on the Rewards Track page arrows will now flip through the pages quickly. Fixed a bug where if a player disconnected from a ranked match, they’d get a message stating they won their last ranked game upon relogging.  


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