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Hughthehand

Reforging for Dummies needed

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Is there simplified guided that explains where stat weights come from? I am looking at mrrobot and wow reforge, and they have different numbers. I am trying to fine tune my toon and both web sites are giving me completely different info on how to reforge. I know I can sim, but I would like a better understanding of the numbers and where they come from. For instance, haste has a 1.43 weight on wow reforge for my toon. Where does the 1.43 come from and how do I know if I need to change it or not? Completely lost in the finer things of the WoW.

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Alright, I'll take a stab at this one.

Simcraft is a wonderful model that allows us to simulate DPS in certain situations. However, those situations are unique and are not indicative of how real fights will work themselves out. For example, Simcraft has a few options where you can decide if it's a Patchwerk type fight (no movement, no adds, pure single target) or some slight havoc where you switch to adds, move out of fire, etc. Nothing can be fine-tuned to something specific like Horridon or Durumu. Simcraft is nice to get a figure on uptimes of trinkets, effects of changing spell priorities, and finding some small differences in other variables.

Stat weights are number representations of the amount of damage gained per point of a particular statistic, such as Haste. Your 1.43 means that Haste has a stat weight of 1.43 in that if you had 10,000 Haste, you would gain 14,300 DPS from Haste alone. So in a case where you might have 1.6 for Mastery, 1.5 for Haste, and 1.4 for Crit, in this particular instance, you would gain the most DPS by having more Mastery than Haste and more Haste and Mastery than Crit.

However, this situation can chance. This is a very real scenario in Simcraft when trying to calculate stats for a single-target type fight:

8000 Mastery

7500 Haste

4500 Crit

Mastery weight = 2.00

Haste weight = 2.20

Crit weight = 1.50

Now you'll notice that Haste has a higher stat weight, so you might think Haste is the best stat! So you reforge some of your Mastery to Haste and get the following:

6000 Mastery

8500 Haste

4500 Crit

Mastery weight = 2.25

Haste weight = 1.90

Crit weight = 1.50

What you've done is changed your contribution to DPS from one stat to another. You might notice a 100 DPS gain this way or you might notice a 100 DPS total loss. Adjusting these values over many iterations is what Simcraft model builders and theorycrafters do in order to get the largest possible simulated DPS. Note that stat weights change for every single possible combination fo stats and no stat weights are the same for fights.

For example, Warlocks have a high value in Haste and Mastery while we dislike Crit. For pure single target fights, Haste tends to do quite well. However, for Destruction Warlocks who use Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn far more in multi-target fights than they would in single target fights, Mastery will overtake Haste because you will gain more DPS per point of Mastery than you would from Haste.

Stat weights are very flexible. What needs to be remembered is that stat weight differences of 1.9 and 2.2 might look significant, but if you were to have 10000 Haste and 10000 Mastery with 1.9 and 2.2 stat weights, you'd get 19000 DPS from Haste and 22000 DPS from Mastery for 41000 total. However, if you were to have 5000 Haste and 15000 Mastery, you'd end up with 9500 DPS from Haste and 33000 DPS from Mastery for a total of 42500, or a net gain of 1500. So you can see changing 5000 points of a secondary stat with a 0.3 difference in weight will result in a very minor change of 1500 DPS. In today's situation, we're dealing with 100-250k DPS, so 1500 is a drop in the bucket.

The take away from all of this is that your DPS doesn't come from your secondary stats. You can find very small 1-5% min/maxing from stats, but 90%+ will come from your proper execution of your specialization and class as well as proper manipulation of fight mechanics.

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This next question deals with my ignorance with Sim craft. When I run it, I do not see those numbers while analyzing that specific data. (i.e. 8000 mastery = mastery weight 2.2). I see the spells and such and the percent dps attributed to them. I apologize. I have only used sim craft three or so times.

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You'll need to adjust the options to see these stat weights as they are not turned on by default. See here:

Posted Image

At this screen, check the things you care about. Here, you'll see Intellect, Hit, Crit, Mastery, Haste, and Spell Power checked:

Posted Image

The results, once you simulate (make sure you have some time and set it to 10,000 iterations), you'll see this at the summary report page:

Posted Image

I believe I wrote a guide on how to model things in Simcraft. I'll see if I can dig up that much deeper explanation for you.

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Is there simplified guided that explains where stat weights come from? I am looking at mrrobot and wow reforge, and they have different numbers. I am trying to fine tune my toon and both web sites are giving me completely different info on how to reforge. I know I can sim, but I would like a better understanding of the numbers and where they come from. For instance, haste has a 1.43 weight on wow reforge for my toon. Where does the 1.43 come from and how do I know if I need to change it or not? Completely lost in the finer things of the WoW.

Might be better if you simply post a link to armory for your toon, and we can determine from there what you are trying to accomplish.

Stat Weights are "advanced" techniques, but really only important if you are trying to figure out if one stat has more importance than another..

We can see what you have gemmed, and look at what robot suggests to see if those weights will have a measurable impact. You can overthink this to death, and still won't matter in the end.

I have been working with reforge since basically the day of release of MoP, never once do I take into account stat weights.. my DPS is excellent, far exceeding what Simulcraft says I should be.. bottom line is robot does a fine job with default settings..

The tinkerers or more advanced people may want to test further, I just like to play.. if you can eek out 1 or 2 dps more by using stat weights, well that may be fun for you, it's just more work for me.. and the game STILL comes down to mechanics and situations.. both of those ALWAYS change... depending on heal, boss aggro, other players and many factors. The best thing about WoW is it's very dynamic, if it were always the same it would be boring... so your gear isn't as important as talent tree or boss you are on.

Edited by rjparker1

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I think, wow-reforge still has not been updated to account for gear upgrades.

Also, know that Mr. robot takes into account not just your reforges, but your gems enchants and even gear. Mr. Robot, IMO, is one of the better optimization tools out there. though learning how to use SIMC is probably not a bad idea since Mr. Robot works with them and you can take your SIMC results into Mr. Robot to help optimize.

Lastly, all the weights in Mr. Robot are relative to each other. Which means that the higher the weight is from other stats, the more emphasis that stat will have compared to the lower ones.

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