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Aeleas

Damage Taken problems with heroic Jin'rokh

12 posts in this topic

Full Report

http://www.worldoflo...8on822avkcjy1d/

Damage Done

http://www.worldoflo...sum/damageDone/

Healing Done

http://www.worldoflo...um/healingDone/

Lightening Diffusion Damage Overall

http://www.worldoflo...d/spell/137905/

Hi guys, we just started our first night on heroics, having just killed Lei Shen this past Saturday for the first time.

Us log junkies in the group have been trying to pinpoint the worst of the damage taken problems. Our worst damage taken, far and away, seems to be from the Static Burst and Static Wound, worse than the storms and such. Is this normal? Or are our tanks having taunt timing problems?

We're (mostly) dealing with Ionization pretty easily. We put in a Weak Aura string to help track it more efficiently.

The wipes themselves primarily happen during the storm phases. I noticed that only one of us is really taking huge amounts of Diffusion hits per fight. Mainly we seem to be wiping from lack of healing during the storms, from what I'm seeing on Grid. Health bars drop, don't go up much, if at all, and people start dying off. We do have a resto druid casting Tranq with Symbiosis on me (elemental shaman) for Spiritwalker's Grace, so she can do it while moving, but we discovered that it's fourth on our frost DK's Healing Taken, but 29th or something for our warlock, so it's an out-of-range issue. The other two healers aren't able to move and heal so well.

My remedy to this, when we go into it again next week (we're spending the rest of the week clearing 12/12 again), is to split up the group. Storms One and Three: Devotion aura, and the Resto druid in the center quadrant, close to the middle sorta, four on her left, five to the right, spread out, but not more than 40 yards from her. These have been specified by name and side on the guild website forums.

We had been having fewer and fewer people die later in the night, with only losing a couple by that point. The problem came in Storm Two, when we had my Healing Tide Totem, but no other raid wall. Very few people are surviving the storm there. I'm asking everyone to use any personal defensive cooldowns on the storms, but some people don't have theirs up again by the time the second one starts.

My suggested remedy for this on the guild forums is put my healing tide totem in the middle, trade out our holy priest with the resto druid, just flipping them from positioning in Storms One and Three, and put our disc priest's Divine Barrier on her, a Power Word: Shield, and see if the one or two orbs she might take would be absorbed by the two abilities while she stands still and channels a Hymn raid wall. We might even have her stand to one side of the Barrier, and have the Disc Priest stand still on the other side, and just bubble and heal away.

I'd love to know what you guys think about our Static Burst/Static Wound issue, and about our Storm ideas. Feedback from experienced Jin'rokh Heroic killers would be great. Thanks a lot in advance!

Edited by Aeleas

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Static Burst is unavoidable. Static Wound is avoidable; if you're getting a lot of damage from this it means your tanks are having to tank with stacks of the debuff, which can happen mostly if Thundering Throw isn't managed well. If the one that has the stacks taunts back right before Thundering Throw, then that will minimize raid damage.

There are people who haven't figured out how to move out of Lightning Diffusions, but it looks to me like you're having healing output problems more than anything, particularly from your Disc Priest. If you have that Priest stand in the pool and do Atonement healing, it should make a big difference since it will be amplified by the pool.

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Our disc priest is our "swing healer." He's primarily shadow. What bothers me about his healing is his activity time %. When he's DPSing, it's usually high. When he's healing, for all our H Jin'rokh pulls, he's at 75% activity time, give or take a few %. Our other healers have far greater activity time. It's this issue, I believe, that has him at a higher HPS, but far lower total healing done, than our other healers. I plan on bringing it up with him before this evening's raid.

Our healing output during pool phases hasn't been difficult for us. Our healing problems mostly show themselves during Storm phases. That's when I really have to figure out how to get more healing, which brings us back to my Divine Barrier/Hymn thingy raid wall.

I'll make sure and run that Thundering Throw taunt comment by our tanks, and see if that helps some. Thanks, Tazaret. :]

Edited by Aeleas

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Our disc priest is our "swing healer." He's primarily shadow. What bothers me about his healing is his activity time %. When he's DPSing, it's usually high. When he's healing, for all our H Jin'rokh pulls, he's at 75% activity time, give or take a few %. Our other healers have far greater activity time. It's this issue, I believe, that has him at a higher HPS, but far lower total healing done, than our other healers. I plan on bringing it up with him before this evening's raid.

Our healing output during pool phases hasn't been difficult for us. Our healing problems mostly show themselves during Storm phases. That's when I really have to figure out how to get more healing, which brings us back to my Divine Barrier/Hymn thingy raid wall.

I'll make sure and run that Thundering Throw taunt comment by our tanks, and see if that helps some. Thanks, Tazaret. :]

You might want to try having that Priest stay as Shadow, take advantage of that spec's innate raid-healing capability and especially use Cascade during the Lightning Storm.

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Okay, I'll think about that. Our DPS is pretty high, though, and our longer pulls look as though we can down him while in the third pool with five DPS. Will him being shadow reduce or increase his healing during storms? Survivability and healing output during Storms is what we're wiping to, mainly.

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Okay, I'll think about that. Our DPS is pretty high, though, and our longer pulls look as though we can down him while in the third pool with five DPS. Will him being shadow reduce or increase his healing during storms? Survivability and healing output during Storms is what we're wiping to, mainly.

His healing was low all the time. He didn't use several important abilities like Archangel, Pain Suppression, and Cascade, whatsoever. Almost the majority of his healing was on himself, and so realistically, he contributed very little to the raid's survivability. I wouldn't want this person healing at all except possibly to have him spam Atonement healing in the water.

He seems to perform decently as a Shadow Priest, based on the other logs, so I would just have him stay in that role and use Cascade instead of Halo to help out during the Thunderstorm when the raid is spread out and taking damage.

Edited by Tarazet

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Geez. I gotta learn Disc so I can keep an eye on these things, then. And I gotta get him to dig into his offspec a bit more. Okay, thanks again, I'll go over it with him.

And what of the idea about our holy priest sitting in a Divine Barrier? Provided the disc turned his healing around, hypothetically, of course.

Edit: He's specced for Halo, I'm pretty sure. Should he be switching to Cascade for disc? Absolutely no Halo?

More edit: I see why, now. Just looked up Disc Priest guide on this site. Cascade is great for this fight because of the spread-out nature of the storm phase, since it acts similar to a chain-heal, except aiming for further-away players. I see that this makes it better than Halo for this fight.

Edited by Aeleas

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Geez. I gotta learn Disc so I can keep an eye on these things, then. And I gotta get him to dig into his offspec a bit more. Okay, thanks again, I'll go over it with him.

And what of the idea about our holy priest sitting in a Divine Barrier? Provided the disc turned his healing around, hypothetically, of course.

Edit: He's specced for Halo, I'm pretty sure. Should he be switching to Cascade for disc? Absolutely no Halo?

He wasn't casting Halo enough either, but if he is spec'd Halo, he should use it in the water when everyone is stacked up. That should take care of a lot of the healing needed during that phase. Cascade is far better during Thunder Storm when people are spread out, so if that's when you are lacking healing output, that's what he should be using. Based on what I'm seeing in the logs it would be just as good to have him spec Shadow and just make sure he has Cascade available for the storm.

Edited by Tarazet

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I'll try him out in different pulls as either one, then. I'll see if I can get him to use the abilities mentioned more while he's disc, and try out that Divine Barrier trick, and using Cascade. If that doesn't do much for us, I'll have him go Shadow with Cascade anyway, and see if burning the boss down faster will help us to get him down before he has time to cast Storms too many times.

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well i kind of just glanced at logs but it seems you have a monk and druid tank, and someone tanked on a dk for a bit lol. monk should be throw first and third pool to use nimble brew since its a 2min cd. (a dk can ice bound with glyph everyone of them, and ams stack application) save rage, elusive for stacks when you have to take boss. if you do it right no tank should have more then 3-4 max of the static wound when they take the boss, oh and never tank the boss with you in the pool unless you have no stacks. dodging works and thats alot of active dodge to avoid hurting the raid there..... if you need more heals a trick i use is to have a druid with pain sup blow tranq during the storm. i see them do fine with their own personal cd, but i perfer to have it on them other cds will work too. i have a pally bubble first and pop all his shit, shaman with their healing tide for storm. druids can symbiosis the shadow priest for extra tranq. (i raid lead this crap XD)

kind of don't want to get too deep cause i just got done raiding and its bed time, but you seems to swap who does what so i will just list shit for the classes apparent since i can't tell your regulars.

Classes that can dispel themselves: Monk (talent 99% reduced magic), Lock (talent removes all magic), Dps shaman (glyph:shamanistic rage). all should dispel themselves with a personal cd, out of pool to save healer mana and have good uptime in pool.

Classes that should never need to be dispeled: Dk (ams), hunter (deterrence), basicly any immunity will stop the application, or dispel it..... so competent players only :).

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Check out the friendly fire section. That will show you if one of the tanks is tanking the boss with the debuff and killing the raid with static wound. Overall for the entire night static wound accounts for 18% of the total damage done to your raid, which can definitely be reduced, but oustide of 2-3 attempts it isn't the main reason you're dying.

The deaths section is a good way to figure out exactly how people died.I went through the death log for about 10 different attempts, and various members of your raid have basically died to any and every mechanic that can kill them all at different times. In order of the most deaths your raid is dying to:

  • Lightning Diffusion / Lightning Storm
  • Static Burst
  • Static Wound
  • Electrified Waters
1. I combined Lightning Diffusion / Lightning storm because they go together. the little chain lightnings are avoidable but will almost certainly lead to a death if 90% of the raid isn't avoiding them 90% of the time. Lightning storm is usually what finished the player off, but they died because they got hit by a diffusion.

2. Static burst deaths are either caused by not being topped off after an ionization (which can be somewhat fixed by staggering the your dispels, and by not dispeling right before a static burst if you can avoid it), or by not being topped off coming out of a lightning storm.

3. Static wound itself won't really kill the raid, but it'll make it a lot harder to top them off before taking burst damage that can/will kill them. Your tanks could definitely do a better job with this, but it isn't the biggest problem you're having right now.

4.) Electrified waters means someone didn't get out of the water for ionization or an implosion. you have a few wipes from this too.

Edited by Storm

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the disc advice here seems a bit off. spamming atonement in the water will only push other heals into overheals when they arent really needed anyway.

spirit shell and pw:s are what a disc contribute to this fight.

vuhdo, the healing addon, shows focused lightning target debuff by default so he should be snapping a pw:s and a mending on them the second it goes out. same with anyone who's going to cleanse themselves of ion.

with spirit shell, it is important to remember how this works. it puts a shield on for 14 sec but any additional spirit shell heals add to the shell and refresh the time. so 10 sec or so before the pool ends is a crucial spirit shell time. this will either cancel the damage from ion dropping off or shell ppl for the first bit of the storm, either way both groups need to recieve a quick final prayer. so tell him to pop shell in the water and hit both groups, then atone a bit to keep arch ready and pop power infusion for a final spirit shell prayer on each group, then once the storm starts pop archangel right before cascade. during the storm renew healers and if someone gets low, pw:s will give them a buffer to stay alive so they can get a heal or two.

disc should also keep an eye on key players in the later pools. you can finish the fight with dead baddies, so save pain suppression to get top dps through the storm.

tell him to practice saving lives by trying to go oom using pw:s during storm. and make sure he knows that int is all disc need, so gem int on his disc set once he's past 9k spirit and ONLY use base int trinks that proc/use whatever.

Edited by kitsu

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