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Crutches

Frost Stats Discrepancies

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Hey guys,

So after reading a bunch of threads on here and mmo-champ regarding frost stats, I've seen some discrepancies among the different stat priorities.

Many threads I've seen have been saying that haste should be at 20%, crit at 25%, then achieve 7-8% vers, then dump into mastery.

After looking at Warcraft logs, all of the top DK's I see are running crit in the mid 20%, haste at 30% +, and mastery at around 30%, with very little (~4%) vers.

 

Hoping for some clarification on this, as I thought the DR on haste was right around 20%. 

 

Thanks!

 

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1 hour ago, Crutches said:

Hey guys,

So after reading a bunch of threads on here and mmo-champ regarding frost stats, I've seen some discrepancies among the different stat priorities.

Many threads I've seen have been saying that haste should be at 20%, crit at 25%, then achieve 7-8% vers, then dump into mastery.

After looking at Warcraft logs, all of the top DK's I see are running crit in the mid 20%, haste at 30% +, and mastery at around 30%, with very little (~4%) vers.

 

Hoping for some clarification on this, as I thought the DR on haste was right around 20%. 

 

Thanks!

 

The only way to maximize your own dps with your own gear options is to sim, change a piece, sim again, change a piece sim again...

This past weekend I simmed my build, and it would say haste was my best stat.  I threw on more haste gear, simmed again and it said mastery was my best stat....then versatility...then haste.

 

Eventually you'll get the best equipment setup for you.

 

Following cookie cutter stat weights or top players and you could wind up lowering your dps simply because by stacking one or two stats, you could (and probably will) hurt your other stats to a degree where your dps actually drops. No bueno.

The simple answer why top players seemingly stack a little more crit is because their sims tell them that crit gives them the most benefit over their other stats when they reach a certain point with them.

 

edit: oh and the haste 20% is a minimum breakpoint for frost gameplay fluidity, not for DR i dont think.  Its definately viable to add more haste, say to 25%, so long as your other stats don't suffer too much in trying to do so.

Edited by Sniz

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Hello. i have some trooble with Fdk's stat too :/ (sorry for my english, not my first language)

Right now, i SimC my char everytime i droop a new part. and i keep the best dps théory.

Before i was at
25%Cr.
20%Hast.
28%Mastery.
5% Versa.

 

today, with my MM10+ i drooped new gloves. stat change (and the gloves Ilvl increase a lot 865 -> 880) so i SimC again and now i'm at

23% Cr
19.4% Haste
31% Mastery
5% Versa.

Dps on SimC bump from 341 to 343 (in théory) so i should go like that even if i'm not on the "standard" cap (25% CR 20% haste)?

 

edit : BTW i have the Legendary helm, so Howling blast is often a food damage source in my dps.

Edited by Scyn

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1 hour ago, Scyn said:

Hello. i have some trooble with Fdk's stat too :/ (sorry for my english, not my first language)

Right now, i SimC my char everytime i droop a new part. and i keep the best dps théory.

Before i was at
25%Cr.
20%Hast.
28%Mastery.
5% Versa.

 

today, with my MM10+ i drooped new gloves. stat change (and the gloves Ilvl increase a lot 865 -> 880) so i SimC again and now i'm at

23% Cr
19.4% Haste
31% Mastery
5% Versa.

Dps on SimC bump from 341 to 343 (in théory) so i should go like that even if i'm not on the "standard" cap (25% CR 20% haste)?

 

edit : BTW i have the Legendary helm, so Howling blast is often a food damage source in my dps.

That is the "theory".

But yes, every time i used SimC, a different stat weight resulted.  Most often with very similiar weights. (7.03; 6.93; 6.9 etc).

(Keep in mind, strength is a very important stat which comes with higher ilvl gear.$

This means Fdk is valuing stats very evenly and is good (maybe).

But you have to also remember that simc turns you into a perfect dps robot.  I dont usually like going into too much detail, but at that point you have to think about what the sim's rotation is (it may be different than yours or Icey's as well as latency and player error.

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95% of your dps comes from you, executing your rotation flawlessly*, being in the right place in the fight and having to move as effeciently as you can so you can get back to dps asap. 

* Flawlessly is hard to do as there are usually things happening like crap on the ground, movement and the likes. 

Have fun with it and the dps will come. 

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I know that SimC is a perfect rotation.

i'm afraid that 2% Cr will be a lost that can hurt me. The best will be to test it in live. Before ma prio was Versa>Mastery>Haste>Crit

With the new gloves, it's Versa = Crit > Mastery > Haste.

i don't thinnk 0.6% haste will change so much my dps. I'll be back if a find something for me :p

 

 

@Shells yeah i know that :)

i enjoy more frost than UH, was UH at the begining because of bad result for frost DPS, but i'm glad they up the spec enough to make it better.

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1 hour ago, Scyn said:

@Shells yeah i know that :)

i enjoy more frost than UH, was UH at the begining because of bad result for frost DPS, but i'm glad they up the spec enough to make it better.

I made the jump 2 nights ago and have yet to try it out as I normally tank, will be interesting to see it in action.

Its nice to have 2 viable dps specs to switch between. 

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3 hours ago, Scyn said:

I know that SimC is a perfect rotation.

i'm afraid that 2% Cr will be a lost that can hurt me. The best will be to test it in live. Before ma prio was Versa>Mastery>Haste>Crit

With the new gloves, it's Versa = Crit > Mastery > Haste.

i don't thinnk 0.6% haste will change so much my dps. I'll be back if a find something for me :p

 

 

@Shells yeah i know that :)

i enjoy more frost than UH, was UH at the begining because of bad result for frost DPS, but i'm glad they up the spec enough to make it better.

Yeah. you can take off 1 piece of gear in place of another according to a sim, only to see a dps loss and a stat weight reversal on the next sim...its frustrating and if you're concerned about min/maxing, it means running a lot if sims.

Ive simmed my frost spec at least a dozen times at this point.

i suspect there are haste breakpoints involved and frozen pulse can give illusory bumps is damage.

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1 hour ago, Shells said:

I made the jump 2 nights ago and have yet to try it out as I normally tank, will be interesting to see it in action.

Its nice to have 2 viable dps specs to switch between. 

Same here. I tried UH and now am frost (just to mess around).  I usually tank as well so i outgear the content i see with frost, but my impression has been positive.

The rotation is more straightforward, you have to keep track of RP and runes, but dont have to worry about pestules, managing procs is simpler and the talent tree is more straightforward regarding aoe vs single target.  Plus with all the blood gear swapping and stat balancing, i have gear in the bank that works for frost.  Mainly because I dont have much gear with crit as the #1 stat (which is what UH seems to need).

In no time you'll be top 5 deeps in lfr (behind the obvious classes of course).

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36 minutes ago, Sniz said:

In no time you'll be top 5 deeps in lfr (behind the obvious classes of course).

Well, we cleared the raid in Héro, and manage to down 2 bosses in MM (trying Ursoc monday, third target for us)

 

and, i have to say that i'm not the last dps, not at all. I have to work hard to be in the top 3-5, and manage to be first often. It's cool to have to try HARD to be in the top ;) without challenge it's not really fun, yes?

And, my weapon's relics are not the better's one (840-850-880) so, i could do better ^^ (Wdps is our 2nd stat right?)

the unique things we seems to have to do every time, it's SimC again and again :p

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@Crutches

Aside from all the answers given so far about simming for weights, which is absolutely correct, there is also a reason for the high haste. There is a haste breakpoint somewhere around 31%, where you can fit an extra global cooldown in Obliteration (so an additional KM proc). The actual cap is either stop at 20, or bump it up to the second cap. Anything inbetween has relatively little value.

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33 minutes ago, Impurex said:

@Crutches

Aside from all the answers given so far about simming for weights, which is absolutely correct, there is also a reason for the high haste. There is a haste breakpoint somewhere around 31%, where you can fit an extra global cooldown in Obliteration (so an additional KM proc). The actual cap is either stop at 20, or bump it up to the second cap. Anything inbetween has relatively little value.

Thats exactly right, i remember going from 3 to 4 oblits as my haste went up.  Plus, extra dots w/n the average itterated refresh time etc.

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18 hours ago, Impurex said:

@Crutches

 The actual cap is either stop at 20, or bump it up to the second cap. Anything inbetween has relatively little value.

^This is amazingly accurate and really the go to standard for haste. It has hard break walls but once you overcome them you do see big benefits. 

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Thanks for all the replies! Last question.  I was under the assumption that obliteration was the go to talent for single target dps. However, I've been seeing a lot of the top DK's in trials of valor(and EN) running with GA.  If I was to pick one and not switch between every fight, which should I go for?  The single target rotation for RA/GA spec isn't very clearly outlined.  Could I get some insight into it?

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13 minutes ago, Crutches said:

Thanks for all the replies! Last question.  I was under the assumption that obliteration was the go to talent for single target dps. However, I've been seeing a lot of the top DK's in trials of valor(and EN) running with GA.  If I was to pick one and not switch between every fight, which should I go for?  The single target rotation for RA/GA spec isn't very clearly outlined.  Could I get some insight into it?

For specifics, i will defer to an expert for now until i get a chance to sim it tonight.

Generally, when looking at top players.  Its important to note, that they are killing content so fast that they may see a net positive from GA over Obliteration simply due to the fact that they may be killing bosses too fast to take advantage of more than 2 Obliteration cooldowns.

I'd be interested to know the length of the fights for the logs you have checked.

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Btw, should Remorseless Winter be used off cooldown? or only when I have 1 rune available?

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1 hour ago, Crutches said:

@Sniz

I essentially just looked at https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/12#boss=1958&class=DeathKnight and checked out their armories.  If this isn't the proper way of identifying what I should be speccing in to, my bad!

Its not wrong per se, it just might be that GA *could* be their M+ build (where trash and aoe dps is actually more important than bosses), not necessarily their raid build.

You'd have to check their specific raid log to confirm that they are using GA.

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34 minutes ago, Daxter said:

Btw, should Remorseless Winter be used off cooldown? or only when I have 1 rune available?

Definately not on cooldown single target.  It really should only be cast if you have no procs or buffs and all you have are runes and are low on runic power.  So basically, only when all you have left is a dry Obliterate.

 

2+ targets yes, i believe so.

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If you have the Legendary Helmet, it became important to use RW before a Frima's proc.

i can reach 1 mio damage with 1 HB sometime ^^' 

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With the obliteration vs GA query...I noticed simming and on the target dummy, with perfect use, obliteration pulls slightly higher dps....however, GA is easy to work into the rotation, it is boosted with extra mobs in the boss fight and doesn't take any skill to use effectively, so I would say it's the more versatile and forgiving choice. 

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