meditate

Des, lock damage help

32 posts in this topic

Hello,

im an 860 des lock, and having trouble with my dps. when a  fights starts on a Single target using all my CD i get to 230k  with flasks, then drops down to 175k, and the moment i start moving due to raid boss mechanics my damage goes down to 110k .

 

My haste is 15% i know it should be 30% but is there a way to manaage the dps loss? i have enchants but havent used all my gems yet

 

my rotation is CB,conflag,CB,immo.rift rift rift,summon doom guard, incenerate,incenerate,incenerate rinse and repeate]

using imp as my pet

 

 

i dont have world of log yet  to post, will be posting it when i finishing doing my first boss

 

 

Any help is mostly appreciated

my lock armory link

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Mèditate/simple

 

EDIT:  he is my log of Heroic eye, i start with good dps , at almost 400k than go down below 100k

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/duikdvdhwpkcfow9/details/15/?s=2224&e=2504#tab-dmgspell

 

Edited by meditate

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Hi Meditate,

Does sound like you are having some major issues. Your awful haste will some to do with it but you should not be dropping that much either even on movement. 

However please post to here instead https://www.warcraftlogs.com/  (WCL)

Not sure about Locky but it has been years since I have used that site and I will not be able to help much. WCL is much busier and we can do proper comparisons then. 

Destro doesn't have a rotation as such (it depends on our resources/Rifts) so if you really are doing the above then that is part of your issue.

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10 minutes ago, spikeysquad said:

Hi Meditate,

Does sound like you are having some major issues. Your awful haste will some to do with it but you should not be dropping that much either even on movement. 

However please post to here instead https://www.warcraftlogs.com/  (WCL)

Not sure about Locky but it has been years since I have used that site and I will not be able to help much. WCL is much busier and we can do proper comparisons then. 

Destro doesn't have a rotation as such (it depends on our resources/Rifts) so if you really are doing the above then that is part of your issue.

understood thank you very much for your help

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You're welcome :) Raiding tonight but I'll look tomorrow if no one else has replied by then.

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Hello there,

Fellow 860 destro lock, I think I can help you out. Just looking at your talents, I'd recommend swapping soul harvest out for eradication, that 10% increased damage from your spells will really help out, especially when throwing out back to back CB. Additionally, I'd say open up with immolate before you even cast CB or incinerate. A big chunk of your dps as a destro lock comes from immolate, so making sure you open up with that and keep immolate up on your target is a top priority. As for the doomguard, I'd suggest saving it for bloodlust when possible. The haste really increases your doomguards damage output, and your DPS as a result. These are some changes you can make while you work on getting that haste up.

If you're doing dungeons or raids where there isn't a whole lot of AOE dps to be done, I'd say stick with grimoire of service over sacrifice.  Summoning that extra imp is gonna give you a boost in DPS.

Here's my armory link for comparison http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/korgath/Maelict/simple

 

I hope this helps!

Edited by maelict

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14 hours ago, maelict said:

Hello there,

Fellow 860 destro lock, I think I can help you out. Just looking at your talents, I'd recommend swapping soul harvest out for eradication, that 10% increased damage from your spells will really help out, especially when throwing out back to back CB. Additionally, I'd say open up with immolate before you even cast CB or incinerate. A big chunk of your dps as a destro lock comes from immolate, so making sure you open up with that and keep immolate up on your target is a top priority. As for the doomguard, I'd suggest saving it for bloodlust when possible. The haste really increases your doomguards damage output, and your DPS as a result. These are some changes you can make while you work on getting that haste up.

If you're doing dungeons or raids where there isn't a whole lot of AOE dps to be done, I'd say stick with grimoire of service over sacrifice.  Summoning that extra imp is gonna give you a boost in DPS.

Here's my armory link for comparison http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/korgath/Maelict/simple

 

I hope this helps!

Hi Maelict,

Welcome to the site.

I wonder why do you think GoServ is better for dungeons? 

I simmed it recently with my gear GoServ/Gosac on a single target (ST) 6 minute light movement fight with Wreck Havoc (not going to dungeon without this). Now this fight is a long compared to a dungeon (where GoServ would probably be a bit higher) but the difference for me on ST was only 6k. With my gear level that is not even 2%.

Would I notice that loss on a ST fight? Not at all. However, I would notice the loss of all of the passive cleave from GoSac on trash packs (and most bosses have adds) absolutely. Think of how much ST damage you do in a dungeon. Now how much cleave and AoE do you do? For me GoSac wins all the way. Raids can be a different matter though depending on where the priority damage is needed. 

Yeah I agree that Soul Harvest should go though. It's not a strong talent and a long cooldown. For dungeons it can be a choice between Eradication (the bonus is 12% on each target effected) and Fire & Brimstone. For a long time I have actually been a fan of the former as cleave is what Destro excels at. However, I have been using F&B more and more and having some on demand burst without waiting having to wait for shards to RoF is really nice (first blobs in Arcway are a good example for this). It really does depend on the group though and how strong the AoE'ers are. For anyone unsure play with both and see what works best for you.

Anyhow, looking forward to helping you with your logs Meditate.

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16 hours ago, maelict said:

If you're doing dungeons or raids where there isn't a whole lot of AOE dps to be done, I'd say stick with grimoire of service over sacrifice.  Summoning that extra imp is gonna give you a boost in DPS.

No dungeon where GoServ would be worth taking, doing any type of 5 man content without GoSac is a massive DPS loss.

GoServ in EN is only usable on Nyth and Ursoc. Everything else GoSac beats it out massively.

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I actually use GoServ on Elerenthe as well (personally talking about mythic but this probably applies to other difficulties as well but I never respec to find out!) The spiders die so quick so I barely bother with them apart from a Conflag and 2 CBs with Havoc (I run with Soul Conduit). With the running up and down the whole platforms for tornados and the like I find the pets do better boss damage than I or my guildy (who plays better than me) have ever gotten from Demonic Power. You can argue this is a skill thing though. 

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5 hours ago, spikeysquad said:

Hi Maelict,

Welcome to the site.

I wonder why do you think GoServ is better for dungeons? 

I simmed it recently with my gear GoServ/Gosac on a single target (ST) 6 minute light movement fight with Wreck Havoc (not going to dungeon without this). Now this fight is a long compared to a dungeon (where GoServ would probably be a bit higher) but the difference for me on ST was only 6k. With my gear level that is not even 2%.

 

Interesting. To be totally honest I hadn't tested it myself. It was just something I'd be doing out of habit up until recently. Thanks for the advice!

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23 hours ago, maelict said:

Hello there,

Fellow 860 destro lock, I think I can help you out. Just looking at your talents, I'd recommend swapping soul harvest out for eradication, that 10% increased damage from your spells will really help out, especially when throwing out back to back CB. Additionally, I'd say open up with immolate before you even cast CB or incinerate. A big chunk of your dps as a destro lock comes from immolate, so making sure you open up with that and keep immolate up on your target is a top priority. As for the doomguard, I'd suggest saving it for bloodlust when possible. The haste really increases your doomguards damage output, and your DPS as a result. These are some changes you can make while you work on getting that haste up.

If you're doing dungeons or raids where there isn't a whole lot of AOE dps to be done, I'd say stick with grimoire of service over sacrifice.  Summoning that extra imp is gonna give you a boost in DPS.

Here's my armory link for comparison http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/korgath/Maelict/simple

 

I hope this helps!

thanks alot for this man, ive tried though, but still when moving, my dps dropped down a big chunk.

 

went downt from 180k to 110-120k , which is extremely bad , dunno man , any other toon, whether hunter,mage,warrior,dk are doing much better dps than me and having lower ilvl 

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2 hours ago, meditate said:

thanks alot for this man, ive tried though, but still when moving, my dps dropped down a big chunk.

 

went downt from 180k to 110-120k , which is extremely bad , dunno man , any other toon, whether hunter,mage,warrior,dk are doing much better dps than me and having lower ilvl 

What does your artifact progression look like? I redid my artifact talents yesterday and noticed a pretty big boost in my dps, I hadn't done any research prior on how to progress my artifact and realized I was all wrong the whole time. Maybe you're in a similar boat? 

Here's mine for comparison (I didn't include relics b/c I'm at work and can't check it currently):

http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc/warlock/destruction/IDfKImAyMBMnAzKAIykDMqAzKwMywDMuATLwEzEBMyAVSwE

On top of that lemme give you my rotation for a typical raid boss:

(Apply Havoc if there is a second target)

1. Immolate

2. Conflagrate (triggers Backlash)

3. Chaos Bolt

4. Dimensional Rift 3x

5. Summon Infernal (if lust is active, with Lord of Flames talent)

--> Summon DG if LoF debuff is present

4. Incinerate

Conflagrate once Backlash disappears

Reapply Immolate as necessary

Sling CBs if you have 3+ soul shards

Reapply Dimensional Rifts as they come off cooldown

Incinerate as filler

I like to time my Conflagrates so that I can send out back to back CBs while Backlash is still active, if I don't have enough SS I can get off 3 Incinerates before Backlash comes off. Try to keep the Eradicate debuff from CB on the target as long as you can. Without lust I can pull about 400k with this opener (DG, 3x DR) and a consistent 250-340k (depending on whether there is a target to Havoc or not) with this rotation, considering our ilvls and stats are about the same you should be able to pull similar numbers.

 

Hope this helps, let me know if you have more questions!

Edited by maelict
clarification

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19 minutes ago, maelict said:

What does your artifact progression look like? I redid my artifact talents yesterday and noticed a pretty big boost in my dps, I hadn't done any research prior on how to progress my artifact and realized I was all wrong the whole time. Maybe you're in a similar boat? 

Here's mine for comparison (I didn't include relics b/c I'm at work and can't check it currently):

http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc/warlock/destruction/IDfKImAyMBMnAzKAIykDMqAzKwMywDMuATLwEzEBMyAVSwE

 

5. Summon DG (if lust is active)

 

 

Did you actually pick Rain of Fire over incenerate dmg? 


Also make sure you use your Lord of Flames trait with the infernal

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11 minutes ago, Swagsurfer said:

 

Did you actually pick Rain of Fire over incenerate dmg? 

A lot of warlocks (myself included) take RoF before Incinerate. The incinerate gain isn't major, Incinerate isn't a the largest part of our over all damage (around #5), so the trait isn't amazing. The RoF trait on the other hand is a quite solid gain for RoF and really makes a difference in the times that RoF is used. Major DPS gain for Mythic+ and not bad at all for several raid rights, such as EN, Eye, and Dragons.

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1 hour ago, Swagsurfer said:

 

Did you actually pick Rain of Fire over incenerate dmg? 


Also make sure you use your Lord of Flames trait with the infernal

Forgot about LoF, made the changes. I did pick RoF over Incinerate, I'm currently basing my artifact progression on the recommended progression chart on the Destro page.

destruction-warlock-artifact.jpg

Edited by maelict

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11 hours ago, maelict said:

What does your artifact progression look like? I redid my artifact talents yesterday and noticed a pretty big boost in my dps, I hadn't done any research prior on how to progress my artifact and realized I was all wrong the whole time. Maybe you're in a similar boat? 

Here's mine for comparison (I didn't include relics b/c I'm at work and can't check it currently):

http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc/warlock/destruction/IDfKImAyMBMnAzKAIykDMqAzKwMywDMuATLwEzEBMyAVSwE

On top of that lemme give you my rotation for a typical raid boss:

(Apply Havoc if there is a second target)

1. Immolate

2. Conflagrate (triggers Backlash)

3. Chaos Bolt

4. Dimensional Rift 3x

5. Summon Infernal (if lust is active, with Lord of Flames talent)

--> Summon DG if LoF debuff is present

4. Incinerate

Conflagrate once Backlash disappears

Reapply Immolate as necessary

Sling CBs if you have 3+ soul shards

Reapply Dimensional Rifts as they come off cooldown

Incinerate as filler

I like to time my Conflagrates so that I can send out back to back CBs while Backlash is still active, if I don't have enough SS I can get off 3 Incinerates before Backlash comes off. Try to keep the Eradicate debuff from CB on the target as long as you can. Without lust I can pull about 400k with this opener (DG, 3x DR) and a consistent 250-340k (depending on whether there is a target to Havoc or not) with this rotation, considering our ilvls and stats are about the same you should be able to pull similar numbers.

 

Hope this helps, let me know if you have more questions!

mhm , my artifacts are focusing on cb, meaning one increase cb crit by 5% and 2nd has a 5% to refund an artifact

 

and why would you choose rof , its need 3 shards

 

the problem with my damage isnt when im standing, its when im moving, when i move is where the damage drops extensively 

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Are you meaning to say that you went for Dimension Ripper first/second? If so, that might be a solid cause of your low damage as those traits are actually some of the last ones you pick up.

Movement for destro is more about moving as little as possible then it is doing damage while moving. As much as looking at traits, talents, and gear can help - it is only a small part of the over all problem. Game play is 75%+ of your damage.

Get and post logs ASAP so we can really help you.

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2 hours ago, Lockybalboa said:

Are you meaning to say that you went for Dimension Ripper first/second? If so, that might be a solid cause of your low damage as those traits are actually some of the last ones you pick up.

Movement for destro is more about moving as little as possible then it is doing damage while moving. As much as looking at traits, talents, and gear can help - it is only a small part of the over all problem. Game play is 75%+ of your damage.

Get and post logs ASAP so we can really help you.

how can you not move when when you are say doing cenarius, or eye or odyn, if you dont move you die, and it isnt about just move one bit  or one step .

should i wol only in raidS?

 

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Wol? world of logs?

Move as little as possible. Moving to stay alive is required, but more than that is not. Odyn, unless picked for Runes, is actually a fairly low movement fight. P3 moving from zone to zone every X seconds is really about it outside of some light dodging. Cen, also fairly low movement unless picked for Brambles. Eye, unless picked for Icker or going to the far corruption spawns (gate to one, personal port to the other) is the only movement other than in the eye on mythic.

All of those light movements can be used to cast Conflag, Dimension Rift, etc.

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29 minutes ago, Lockybalboa said:

Wol? world of logs?

Move as little as possible. Moving to stay alive is required, but more than that is not. Odyn, unless picked for Runes, is actually a fairly low movement fight. P3 moving from zone to zone every X seconds is really about it outside of some light dodging. Cen, also fairly low movement unless picked for Brambles. Eye, unless picked for Icker or going to the far corruption spawns (gate to one, personal port to the other) is the only movement other than in the eye on mythic.

All of those light movements can be used to cast Conflag, Dimension Rift, etc.

these fights arent light movements

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Okay. I barely move in those fights and do very respectable damage, but since you seem to know more than anyone I guess they must be high movement fights.

Good luck with your raiding, I'm done with this thread.

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18 minutes ago, meditate said:

these fights arent light movements

They really are so as you mentioned before that is a big part of problem (it is something I struggle with as well when playing Demo). Watch some videos on Youtube/Twitch from top locks and see how often and much they move when they have to. See where they position themselves when the fight starts and if they use gateway and/or circle. These are all learnt skills. 

Even something like Ursoc (Heroic/mythic) where you have to kite around the room (and if you're like my guild that moves us twice as much as you need to and asks us all to soak all roars) you should never be dropping that low. I am over 870 now but I have gotten over 320k the last two heroic attempts. I do the sexy belt which adds about 15k and our kill times are only just over 3 minutes now but I am from far a top player and people can do a lot lot better.

Odyn: Phase 1 and 2 are very low movement. Stay close to the middle so you can reach all adds.  If you get spear/balls side step out while using Conflag (assuming you are not playing RB) or Rift. If you get the beam thing you should be close to the stack point (if it's near the middle) or you just stay still depending on your guild's tacts. As you get nearer to phase 3 ideally stand near where the 3 areas overlap (it's at the bottom of the circle). You will have to run with tornados but that is RNG and so does everyone. Your tanks might be moving the boss all around the room too for the spear thing so don't cap but move on instants as much as possible.

Cenarius is pretty much the same. Stay near to where the adds will spawn. Don't move from Brambles unless they are chasing you. If some idiot runs the brambles through you just use a defensive cool down. When you need to drop your stacks plan ahead. Every Conflag/Rift start staggering movement to the puddle. Last phase is a little more crazy if you tanks are taking too much damage but again start in a good position and then there is a lot less movement involved. Move again on your instants.

Anyhow, nothing much to say either. Logs are the needed thing now.

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11 hours ago, meditate said:

mhm , my artifacts are focusing on cb, meaning one increase cb crit by 5% and 2nd has a 5% to refund an artifact

 

and why would you choose rof , its need 3 shards

 

the problem with my damage isnt when im standing, its when im moving, when i move is where the damage drops extensively 

As Lockybalboa stated, speccing into RoF provides a pretty serious damage increase in mythics. It helps especially considering destruction aoe is among the weakest in the game. What I typically do is use Havoc to tag all trash mobs with immolate to provide a steady stream of soul shards to drop RoF when there are more than 3 mobs in a given pull. 

Again, as the folks in the thread have stated your problem is most likely that you are moving more than necessary. You obviously want to reposition on fights like Cenarius so that you are not standing in the way of brambles & clearing stacks of corruption, but you should also be at a distance from the boss so that you don't need to move much to be able to target the adds that spawn. There really is no reason to be constantly readjusting to the point where your dps falls below 150k. Additionally, if you're going to argue with the people in this thread who are trying to help you then I don't know why you would start a thread asking for help in the first place.

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finally got my dps to 210 to 220 , without flasking

 

summon doomguard

grimoire of service : imp

Dimensional rift X 3

immo

cb

conflag

inc 

inc

conflag

inc

pet i use is imp

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Seems a decent improvement then.

A few comments on your opener to think about (assuming that is what it is). Immolate has a higher priority to get your shard generation rolling. While Rifts are good with pots, BL/Hero and trinky procs etc if you are going to move while the boosts are still up it's better to save one (assuming you have Dimension Ripper)  until then.

Do you have Lord of Flames? If so then you want Infernal instead of Doomguard if BL/Hero is up.

Oh and technically the above opener is impossible until Immolate ticks so you must be doing things a little different in practice. An earlier Conflag makes sense to get Backdraft (BD) and the Conflag cooldown rolling. BD should effect 3 spells (unless you first do CB-CB) so take full advantage of that. Usually you want at least one CB in it as well but that may not always be possible during your opener to do these two things.

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11 hours ago, spikeysquad said:

Seems a decent improvement then.

A few comments on your opener to think about (assuming that is what it is). Immolate has a higher priority to get your shard generation rolling. While Rifts are good with pots, BL/Hero and trinky procs etc if you are going to move while the boosts are still up it's better to save one (assuming you have Dimension Ripper)  until then.

Do you have Lord of Flames? If so then you want Infernal instead of Doomguard if BL/Hero is up.

Oh and technically the above opener is impossible until Immolate ticks so you must be doing things a little different in practice. An earlier Conflag makes sense to get Backdraft (BD) and the Conflag cooldown rolling. BD should effect 3 spells (unless you first do CB-CB) so take full advantage of that. Usually you want at least one CB in it as well but that may not always be possible during your opener to do these two things.

when i open with immo , my dps dropped drastically  to 120k , im not doing immo openers

 

and no i dont have lord of flamesm but if i get it , i will give infernal a chance as you have advise

 

thanks 

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