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Kazistrasz

Bear: HotW vs. NV

7 posts in this topic

So, I have a druid alt, and I have a druid tank that just joined my guild, and I'm very curious about why so many bears take Nature's Vigil over Heart of the Wild. My tanking experience is mainly with DK's and my theory knowledge is mostly centered around DK's and Warriors, though I do understand how Druid tanking works a bit.

I look at it this way:

NV is a modest DPS gain on the whole as well as an okay amount of self healing when combined with Berserk/Incarnation, and that's about all I think of it. Okay when there's a period of long, sustained damage on you that you want to help the healers through.

The flat 6% Agility from HotW offers more crit, which means more rage, which means more keeping yourself alive, as well as more passive avoidance, making you less of a sitting duck when Savage Defense isn't up. The 6% stamina provides more EH for harder-hitting boss abilities and a bigger cushion for healers to play with when there's damage going out. Then, the activated ability allows for another raid-healing cooldown during times when the druid isn't tanking the boss for tank-swapping fights.

Am I missing something important here? Why do so many take NV instead?

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For one, NV isn't a self-heal, its a raid-wide smart heal. Whoever is lowest in the raid will get 25% of your damage as a heal. With the 1.5 minute cooldown, I use it (macro'd) with berserk and incarnation as you mention - and manage about 600k healing done with each 30 second use. That extra 20k HPS smart heal is really nice on high damage phases - it fits in well with a megeara head rotation, ji-kun quills, etc. and as you mention its a DPS gain for us as well.

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It is a DPS gain, but so is the AP gained from the extra Agility, and as far as raid healing, Heart of the Wild lets you have an extra Tranq, which can be used when not on the boss for quills during Ji-Kun or during Rampage with Magaera since they don't attack during rampage.

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Heart of the Wild is ridiculously good for progression. It effectively gives you several extra ilvls' worth of your primary stats for free, and being able to do non-tank stuff for 45 seconds often comes in handy to give the raid a little extra firepower at key moments. My raid group recognizes how powerful it is, and having us (myself and the Resto) use it at the right time has gotten us kills that would have been much more difficult otherwise.

Of course, there are some encounters where you can never leave Bear Form, and I sometimes use Nature's Vigil for these fights if the healing will be valuable to the raid. Megaera and Dark Animus are definitely two fights where I feel NV performs better than the HotW passive, due to the high amount of raid damage.

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good discussion (albeit from 5.1) here: http://theincbear.com/25-man-wensdays-hotw-vs-nv

I do way more damage as a bear than if I form switch (vengeance ftw) - how much extra firepower are you getting and how, wrath spam with a weapon swap?

In your example of tranquility on megeara on 2 rampages, I've had great results there using NV on 3 rampages paired with one of our dps (berserk/incarnation). When you tranquility you aren't building rage, you lose your vengeance and you aren't doing damage to get through it quicker. I'm still sold on NV but I suppose your playstyle and composition matters. I pretty much never leave bear form - full rotation and output all the time - albeit a pally tank that salvation's me after a taunt makes that possible.

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good discussion (albeit from 5.1) here: http://theincbear.co...days-hotw-vs-nv

I do way more damage as a bear than if I form switch (vengeance ftw) - how much extra firepower are you getting and how, wrath spam with a weapon swap?

Cat form, prepot, Faerie Fire then HotW + Berserk. Simplified cat rotation - keep up Rake/5CP Rip, otherwise spam Mangle and FB with 5CP. 15 seconds of amazing burst and 30 seconds when you do about the same damage as a bear with vengeance.

In your example of tranquility on megeara on 2 rampages, I've had great results there using NV on 3 rampages paired with one of our dps (berserk/incarnation). When you tranquility you aren't building rage, you lose your vengeance and you aren't doing damage to get through it quicker. I'm still sold on NV but I suppose your playstyle and composition matters. I pretty much never leave bear form - full rotation and output all the time - albeit a pally tank that salvation's me after a taunt makes that possible.

That's why I would typically use NV on Megaera, that and you can't really be out of Bear Form for an extended period of time. It's also useful on Dark Animus in conjunction with Berserk to kill two golems quickly, but be careful that you don't kill your damaged large golem too..

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I personally use Heart of the Wild, extra agi and extra stam are helpful and during most boss fights I can take a major healing cd via tranq then spam rejuv to help out. I can see the value of both but I often see one big healing cd is more important than several smaller ones

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