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Healing Priest. Desperate Prayer vs Angelic Bulwark

   25 members have voted

  1. 1. Which talent would you rather for PvE (for almost all fightS)

    • Desperate Prayer
      15
    • Spectral Guise
      0
    • Angelic Bulwark
      10

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23 posts in this topic

So I started talking to some people about these two abilities. In my personal opinion, as a healer, I much prefer using Desperate Prayer because very often I find myself using Void Shift + DP to save a tank. But a guildie told me that once she applied to a guild and they told her "If you are using Desperate prayer, then you are planning on standing in shit".

 

I can kinda see where this guy is coming from, but really, its the same exact thing as using bulwark. You can activate it when you are low, and it will save you, because obviously no one will "look to stand in things" in an actual raid setting. This statement kind of hit me, cause in a way it makes sense. 

 

 

Then I tried so hard to find a counter argument, but the only thing I could really think of is that I'm so use to having that button, that if I didn't then i'd be spamming it and then be sitting on my hands waiting for something to happen.  IMO, I've always thought passive abilities were for lazy people, with some exceptions. I can see AB being good for shadow, but for healing, I feel like DP is a necessary spell. 

 

 

After talking it over I came to the conclusion, its just something we disagree on and DP is just more useful in my eyes because i use it very often. My question is, which do you prefer and why?

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Personally when I'm healing, I overlook my own health quite often. I find AB to be more useful as a default choice just to take the "lazy way" out.

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Frankly I find that statement absolutly foolish. You might as well argue that all selfhealing is void because people shouldn't take any damage.

Fact is there will always be some sort of unavoidable damage to heal. And even if there wasn't, you'll rarely see a fight where people don't make any mistakes. People, yourself included, will stand in crap. It's a fact, deal with it ;)

DP is great (pun intended), especially since you can use it with Void Shift :)

Edit: I'm refering to the statement that Desperate Prayer is for people who plan to stand in crap. Not Athdare's post :)

Edited by Nemo

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Angelic Bulwark, being passive, might be better for people with consistently higher-than-average latencies (depending on if it registered and activated from the host).

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imho, i like DP (Pun intended aswell). It is a relyable cooldown. you always know what you get and how/when to use it. AB is not a clickable button and doesent do it for me as a heals. I suppose you could say AB is more for the lazy people but I dont really find this to be true. in certain encounters large damage spikes will be around and having AB might be better than DP there, the problem is that AB has a 90 sec ICD, and I would sooner go for the 2 mins for DP. If AB would have a smaller ICD I could understand choosing this talent for certain encounters more often.

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Between the two, its pretty much a 10% HP <=> 30 sec CD, and as I said, I just am way too comfortable to have that DP button. lol

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Realistically they both have benefits, I use both, it all depends on the fights. If the tanks are going to be taking a lot of dmg then VS+DP is good 'oh shit' combo, fights were everyone is going to be taking lots of dmg I prefer AB because I can then ignore my health for a while to heal up others. I guess it all boils down to how you choose to use them and get the most out of the talent.

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I feel that Angelic Bulwark is more discipline centric, but even when Angelic Bulwark didn't exist I never speced into Desperate Prayer as a talent.  I always relied on my own personal healing or shields to keep me alive.  

I have the tendency to resonate with the original friends posters statement:  "If you are using Desperate prayer, then you are planning on standing in shit".  I don't plan on taking damage, and if I do my other heals will be sufficient to heal me up, however - I can see the logic in both... :)

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I've only ever really used DP mainly due to the fact that I prefer to have that cooldown for me to use when I want too.

 

A lot of the time I use it for VS+DP but I do occasionally use it at other times to top myself up.  Although mana isnt really an issue now I preferred to have a nice instant heal available that I could use for free.  I have always taken on a lot of "jobs" during raid encounters, (trying to think of examples and can only think of kiting Garalon) and being able to pop something while out of range of others I seem to prefer (not sure why).

 

I think some of it is my mind set as well.  I dont want to have someone else "save me" I want to be in control of my character and I dont like to think I get into situations where I would want to die to be saved in the first place.

 

Maybe I should re-think and have a look at AB sometime in the future though.

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I prefer angelic bulwark as I am lazy, its 1 less cooldown I need to track/remember. Its also saved me many times.

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I don't understand some people and the things they say. By the logic of you shouldn't need DP then no one needs lock rocks, or any other personal cooldowns. The fact is that having a personal cooldown to use during high dmg peaks is a raiding necessity. I like to use DP because I have control of when to use it over the auto use of AB. For instance there's fights where the raid often ends up low hp due to mechanics and I know the first couple we will be able to heal up fine (this is where AB would be used) but the last one when the healers are low mana and dps is priority to beat enrage is the best time I can use DP to keep myself up w/out others wasting time/mana healing me. I've been to lazy to use VS w/ DP but that makes DP even more useful imo. Haters gonna hate I guess.

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"If you are using Desperate prayer, then you are planning on standing in shit".

 

I would counter that with "If you're using Angelic Bulwark, you aren't skilled enough to use Desperate Prayer".

 

It's off the GCD, works fantastically saving people with void swap. The extra strength balances out the increased cooldown, but really, which fight are you planning to do that has Angelic Bulwark triggering on cooldown?

 

To my mind, it's a clear example of Blizzard's "Active ability risks waste but produces better results than passive-and-un-wasteable ability" philosophy.

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You can control when you use Desperate Prayer, you cant control when you use Angelic Bulwark, unless you stand in bads. A free lock cookie every 2min?? The only advantage of angelic bulwark is less cooldowns to keep track of/bindings. and situationally it auto-activates ( e.g. you're stunned and cant use Desperate Prayers), and maybe lower cooldown (because you can use desperate prayer earlier this is debateable)

 

 

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 "If you are using Desperate prayer, then you are planning on standing in shit".

 

I think he meant 'planning on standing in shit' as in 'predicting damage'. Say you're on Lei Shen and about to soak static shock with 50% hp, i highly doubt Angelic Bulwark can save you. So yeah i am 'planning in standing in shit' but not because i want to. Ideally Desperate Prayer is better unless you're lazy. :)

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I personally use AB. It's a lot nicer for me since in some fights I have been seeing it trigger a lot, ie dark shamans when it's just bad placement of the shit and its hard to get out. It's saved me a lot actually and I otherwise don't have the reflexes to use another keybind for DP.

And because of the fact it makes a noise when it triggers its basically telling me to watch my own health for a bit.

I can see how both are good. And they're definitely up to a personal preference on which one is used. If you think you're gonna get off some VS-DP by all means go for it because its definitely not a bad talent choice.

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Here's how I look at it.

 

Desperate prayer is for good players.

 

Angelic Bulwark is for not-so-good players. 

 

If you're tunneling too much to notice your health going down, well, I got bad news for ya buddy =/

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What it comes down to is, having more control over your fate is a good thing. If you have enough presence of mind to use lock rocks at a time when the self-healing is useful, then you should also be using Desperate Prayer.

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I've also come to the conclusion that AB can be wasted if it gets triggered then the damage stops, and doesn't get used. Then you have something on CD that got unused.

DP you can control when you think you need it.

But again, the difference is 10% hp and control or 30s lower CD and proc when "needed"

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I prefer AB over DP, 

 

Overall I think it's just up to everyone's playstyle. I never paid much attention to the talent because I (and I reckon most priests) don't rely on it to perform their role with success.

 

Until last week while doing heroic nazgrim I (noobishly <- does this word even exist) got hit by nazgrim's aftershock and saw myself at 4% hp (after AB proc) and would otherwise be dead without this talent.

 

The only situation where I see myself picking DP over AB is if my raid doesn't have a warlock, hence no healthstones.

 

But then again, I raid 25man so my opinion might be a bit biased.

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I'm pretty sure AB triggers after you are brought down to 30%-, and then prevents further damage.  So if you're at 50 then get 1-shotted, AB won't trigger.

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I'm pretty sure AB triggers after you are brought down to 30%-, and then prevents further damage.  So if you're at 50 then get 1-shotted, AB won't trigger.

Yes you're right, I just tested it. Still if I had bonecracker at the time I'd probably die whereas with AB i'd survive.

 

But like I said, it's not like this skill is gamechanging for priests.

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That's true, but that's true about a lot of things.  Using Power Infusion instead of Twist of Fate isn't game breaking, but it doesn't mean you should use it.  Stacking Haste instead of Crit isn't game breaking, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

The issue is how good are you?  Are you good enough to use DP correctly?  If you're good enough to use it optimally, DP is in nearly all cases better than AB.  There are almost no loss of control mechanics in SoO so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to cast DP in any given situation.  You can make the case for it with Thok but even that is kind of iffy. 

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That's true, but that's true about a lot of things.  Using Power Infusion instead of Twist of Fate isn't game breaking, but it doesn't mean you should use it.  Stacking Haste instead of Crit isn't game breaking, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

The issue is how good are you?  Are you good enough to use DP correctly?  If you're good enough to use it optimally, DP is in nearly all cases better than AB.  There are almost no loss of control mechanics in SoO so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to cast DP in any given situation.  You can make the case for it with Thok but even that is kind of iffy. 

 

It's free self-healing. The only other tool Priests have for that kind of thing is FDCL, but that's more of a mana management tool since it mitigates the cost of healing spells randomly by providing a free, instant one. It's not intended to save your life or anyone else's, though it can.

 

There's also a good chance that when AB procs, you will not take additional damage. And since it's an absorb effect, that means that it was wasted. DP is hard to waste unless it overheals. It's the same reason why I still, even in 5.4, prefer Renewal as a Druid over Ysera's Gift which it seems everyone is using - because it frequently saves my life and costs me nothing.

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