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Dps Drop after living bomb explosion

52 replies to this topic Started by kuraigu, Jun 21 2012 09:56 PM mage fire rotation
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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:56 PM

#1
kuraigu
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first of all hello to all of and on icy veins!

i've read the guide and its very well written and helpful.

though, when i'm practicing on a dummy and use the dps realtime meter,
i've noticed that the dps drops down alot after living bomb explodes.

is this normal or am i doing something wrong?

i begin with the orb, then casting living bomb, scorch and
continue with fireball until pyroblast is proccing.
then i'm trying to keep up fireball, living bomb, pyroblast, ignite dots
the start combution when combustionhelper is green.

all fine, but still. somehow i'm doing something wrong.
only 30k dps in ogrimmar on the 3 88lvl dummies.

my gearscore is 10774 and ilvl is 397.

http://eu.battle.net...úrâîgù/advanced


can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong of if i've configured my char wrong?

thanks in advance!!

Posted 22 June 2012 - 02:03 AM

#2
LCSscallywag
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Mind relinking your Armory in english? I don't know German and google won't translate it properly for me.

Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:54 AM

#3
Stoove
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Are you stacking Crit too much? I know that stacking too much Crit can reduce performance due to the Ignite mechanic not working as it does at face value (this is kown as "Ignite Munching") - have you tried reforging or simming?

Edited by Stoove, 22 June 2012 - 10:05 AM.

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:40 PM

#4
MadMonk
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Armory in english: http://eu.battle.net...úrâîgù/advanced
just change 'eu.battle.net/wow/de/...' to 'eu.battle.net/wow/en/...'
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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:45 PM

#5
LCSscallywag
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Armory in english: http://eu.battle.net...úrâîgù/advanced
just change 'eu.battle.net/wow/de/...' to 'eu.battle.net/wow/en/...'


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Posted 22 June 2012 - 10:30 PM

#6
Damien
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Hey and thank you for the nice comments about my Fire Mage guide.

When reporting a problem like this, you need to be really precise, otherwise it is really hard to figure out what the problem might be.

You say that you experience a DPS drop when you let Living Bomb explode. So, it would mean that if you refresh Living Bomb before it explodes, then you do more DPS. I find it extremely hard to believe, seeing as the explosion represents about 25% of the damage that Living Bomb deals. The only way I see for this to happen is if, after the explosion, it takes you more than 2 seconds to recast Living Bomb.

Moreover, you say that you are testing on 3 dummies at a time. This would make the explosion of Living Bomb even more powerful (provided the 3 dummies are close to each other). This is yet another reason why it is hard to believe that the explosion ruins your DPS.

I think you should do 2 experiments on a single dummy (take one that has no other dummy next to it).
  • Deal 5,000,000 damage with the rotation that we advise in our guide (let Living Bomb explode).
  • Deal 5,000,000 damage with the same rotation, just that you try not to let Living Bomb explode.
For each of the two experiments, I need to know how much DPS you did, and the percentage of damage you did with each spell.

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:51 PM

#7
kuraigu
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hello damien. well, in the dps realtime meter, the dps goes up abit when living bomb explodes, that is correct. but after that it drops down alot like if i'd be doing nothing for atleast a second. is the way i use the rotation correct?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 03:09 PM

#8
kuraigu
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stoove .. i dont know if i'm stacking crit too much. how can i check about it?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 03:13 PM

#9
Damien
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It seems to be correct. When you say DPS real time meter, is it the feature of recount where you can show the variation in your DPS (with the graph)? If yes, then you should know that this feature is useless for measuring the value of your rotation. It is mostly useful for raid leaders who need to know if their raid can pull out the required amount of DPS for a short burst phase. In you case, what is important is your average DPS over the course of a fight or over an uninterrupted period of uptime on a training dummy.

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 04:27 PM

#10
kuraigu
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i have just tried what you told me, going for 5m damage. my dps was at 25k. using all except mirror and bloodlust.
with my gear 25k isn't enough on an 88 test dummy, right?
this was with letting living bomb explode.

Recount - Kúrâîgù's Hostile Attacks
  • Spell - Count - Damage - (percentage)
  • 1. Feuerball 63 1867735 (38%)
  • 2. Entzünden (DoT) 55 796624 (16%)
  • 3. Lebende Bombe (DoT) 69 600127 (12%)
  • 4. Einäschern (DoT) 24 379053 (8%)
  • 5. Pyroschlag! 7 353199 (7%)
  • 6. Lebende Bombe 13 204072 (4%)
  • 7. Pyroschlag! (DoT) 33 187757 (4%)
  • 8. Schattenblitzsalve 20 182023 (4%)
  • 9. Flammenkugel 44 162912 (3%)
  • 10. Schlag der Verderbnis (DoT) 45 100604 (2%)

Posted 23 June 2012 - 04:50 PM

#11
Damien
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I think it'd be a lot easier for us to help you if you took the time to translate the spells in English.

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:00 PM

#12
kuraigu
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I think it'd be a lot easier for us to help you if you took the time to translate the spells in English.


will do so. i've switched WoW to english, but the report was still in german.

Recount - Kúrâîgù's Hostile Attacks
  • Spell - Count - Damage - (percentage)
  • 1. Fireball 63 1867735 (38%)
  • 2. Ignite (DoT) 55 796624 (16%)
  • 3. Living Bomb (DoT) 69 600127 (12%)
  • 4. Combustion (DoT) 24 379053 (8%)
  • 5. Pyroblats! 7 353199 (7%)
  • 6. Living Bomb 13 204072 (4%)
  • 7. Pyroblast! (DoT) 33 187757 (4%)
  • 8. Shadow Bolt Volley 20 182023 (4%)
  • 9. Flame Orb 44 162912 (3%)
  • 10. Blast of Corruption (DoT) 45 100604 (2%)

Posted 23 June 2012 - 10:05 PM

#13
Damien
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It looks pretty good, in my opinion. You need to realize that Fire benefits a lot from the various raid buffs, so it's normal that you feel it performs poorly on a training dummy. Go in LFR, and try that rotation on Ultraxion, I'm convinced you will do very well.

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:42 PM

#14
Alierya
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I think the german spell names sound much better


Recount - Kúrâîgù's Hostile Attacks

  • Spell - Count - Damage - (percentage)
  • 5. Pyroschlag! 7 353199 (7%)


Being my personal favourite, although Flammenkugel is also pretty sweet.

Though in other news I also agree with Damien, I seem to do far better in raid with my FM than on a target dummy.

Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:54 PM

#15
kuraigu
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so i've tried ultraxion on LFR, cant remember how much dps i've done. do you guys use combustion helper, and if yes. what threshhold are you using for ignite?

Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:19 PM

#16
Damien
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Personally, I don't use Combustion Helper. And you should have noted the DPS you did on Ultraxion! But I'm sure that if you had performed poorly, you would have remembered ;)

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 08:48 AM

#17
Stoove
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stoove .. i dont know if i'm stacking crit too much. how can i check about it?


I'm afraid I'm well out of my depth on exactly how much Crit you want (I suspect that's something that has to be simmed). You can find more information on Ignite Munching in the link I posted the first time round. Good luck! :)

Stoove is the wizard of all things shaman related. He is neither late nor early, For he arrives precisely when he intends to.

 

The sole test of theory is experiment. The sole test of experiment is theory.

 

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I use this as my moderator voice.

Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:23 AM

#18
Damien
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I don't think you can stack Crit too much as a Fire Mage.

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:26 AM

#19
Stoove
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I don't think you can stack Crit too much as a Fire Mage.


I linked the Elitist Jerks section on "Ignite Munching" as backup for my comment. I understand that there *is* a point somewhere that means Crit doesn't give you as much of a DPS benefit any more. I have no idea what that is, though - suspect that has to be simmed.

Stoove is the wizard of all things shaman related. He is neither late nor early, For he arrives precisely when he intends to.

 

The sole test of theory is experiment. The sole test of experiment is theory.

 

Theorycraft, Simulationcraft, Experimentalcraft. Who says WoW and science are different?

 

I use this as my moderator voice.

Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:46 AM

#20
Damien
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I linked the Elitist Jerks section on "Ignite Munching" as backup for my comment. I understand that there *is* a point somewhere that means Crit doesn't give you as much of a DPS benefit any more. I have no idea what that is, though - suspect that has to be simmed.


The EJ post is slightly outdated. Since patch 4.1, Ignite Munching is no longer as much of an issue as it used to be.

Ignite is no longer triggered from periodic critical effects.

In the past, you would get a lot of Ignite Munching when a crit from a DoT would happen right after or right before a crit with a regular spell.

Let's look at whoever is ranked #1 on Ultraxion 25H as a Fire Mage: http://eu.battle.net...chenci/advanced
As you can see, this guy is reforging crit even though he's already got so much of it.

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