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Damien

The Fallen Protectors

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If He's DM phase is easier to deal with than his non-DM phase, isn't it better to just rush He to DM immediately, then bring the other 2 to 66%/33% and after both have been dealt with, bring HE out of DM?

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If He's DM phase is easier to deal with than his non-DM phase, isn't it better to just rush He to DM immediately, then bring the other 2 to 66%/33% and after both have been dealt with, bring HE out of DM?

No because He's DM phase is only easy to deal with if you burn him out of it by killing his add fast. If you left him in it for very long you would get overwhelming tank damage with the current strategy.

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question about the desperate measures phase... do they have a max time duration?

It almost looks like it would be easiest to do would be...

bring Rook down to 66% percent, kill off 2/3 adds.  leave Embodied Misery and a tank slowly kiting him far away from anyone else slowly filing up an un-used part of the room.

 

Bring He down to 66%  kite the Mark of Anguish by passing it great distances between 2 people (is there a max range to toss the debuff?)  how nasty does Shadow Weakness get if the kiting is done well?

 

does Shadow Weakness clear ever? either duration, or end of desperate measure phase, or is it permanent ? Can Shadow Weakness get removed by BoP/CoS? (thinking you just kite it back and forth, and when the 2 ppl getting it have a lot of stacks, u BoP them to reset their stacks and not care that the rest of the raid has tons of stacks, as they never get the mark.

 

while those 2 bosses are in the DM phase... bring Sun Tenderheart to 66%, then 33%. 

only then release He/rook from DM phases.

 

 

 

Or am I totally missing something here? as it sounds like a partially finished DM phase is easier to deal with for Rook and He than the bosses themselves? 

Even if you can't prolong the DM phase forever for HE (or Rook if bliz changes it...) wouldn't it still be better to bring Rook to DM phase before Tenderheart anyways?  kill 2/3 adds of Rook, bring Tenderheart to DM, get Tenderheart out of DM, kill rooks 3rd add bringing out of DM.  That way you don't have to deal with his clash or corrupted brew during the hard DM of Tenderheart.

--

edit as it was black on black text.

Edited by finnmaccool

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question about the desperate measures phase... do they have a max time duration?

It almost looks like it would be easiest to do would be...

bring Rook down to 66% percent, kill off 2/3 adds.  leave Embodied Misery and a tank slowly kiting him far away from anyone else slowly filing up an un-used part of the room.

 

Bring He down to 66%  kite the Mark of Anguish by passing it great distances between 2 people (is there a max range to toss the debuff?)  how nasty does Shadow Weakness get if the kiting is done well?

 

does Shadow Weakness clear ever? either duration, or end of desperate measure phase, or is it permanent ? Can Shadow Weakness get removed by BoP/CoS? (thinking you just kite it back and forth, and when the 2 ppl getting it have a lot of stacks, u BoP them to reset their stacks and not care that the rest of the raid has tons of stacks, as they never get the mark.

 

while those 2 bosses are in the DM phase... bring Sun Tenderheart to 66%, then 33%. 

only then release He/rook from DM phases.

 

 

 

Or am I totally missing something here? as it sounds like a partially finished DM phase is easier to deal with for Rook and He than the bosses themselves? 

Even if you can't prolong the DM phase forever for HE (or Rook if bliz changes it...) wouldn't it still be better to bring Rook to DM phase before Tenderheart anyways?  kill 2/3 adds of Rook, bring Tenderheart to DM, get Tenderheart out of DM, kill rooks 3rd add bringing out of DM.  That way you don't have to deal with his clash or corrupted brew during the hard DM of Tenderheart.

--

edit as it was black on black text.

There is no max duration to the Despearate Measures phases as far as I know. The suggestions you are making sound like they might be viable (especially a partially finished Rook DM), but I have a sneaking suspicion that Blizzard will tune the fight for it to be done as intended, which is for you to have a harder time with a boss in DM than when they are not in DM.

 

Since such a tuning change is unlikely to come in right when the boss goes live (since it probably wasn't done much on the PTR and Blizzard would have to see it done in practice a few times to address it), you can play around with the idea if you're raiding on the first lockout. We'll be updating the guide if it turns out that it's a viable strategy!

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There is no max duration to the Despearate Measures phases as far as I know. The suggestions you are making sound like they might be viable (especially a partially finished Rook DM), but I have a sneaking suspicion that Blizzard will tune the fight for it to be done as intended, which is for you to have a harder time with a boss in DM than when they are not in DM.

 

Since such a tuning change is unlikely to come in right when the boss goes live (since it probably wasn't done much on the PTR and Blizzard would have to see it done in practice a few times to address it), you can play around with the idea if you're raiding on the first lockout. We'll be updating the guide if it turns out that it's a viable strategy!

 

Oh well, they did changes to this fight to prevent the trick of killing 2/3 adds of Rook DM, and tanking HE's mark. (came across these changes to fights from ptr, reading mmo champion)

 

Shared Torment - Embodied Misery, Sorrow, and Gloom share health.

 

although, does make the adds HP different. as this affects execute classes.  also don't have to get in range of all adds to kill them. Also allows multi dotters to continue till all adds are dead instead of one add dying sooner.  So overall would say this is makes the HP of the adds easier, but flip side is that you have to deal with all 3 abilities till all are dead. 

 

 

and I guess we aren't having the tank get the mark of anguish for HE's DM anymore?

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/147383-debilitation

Debilitation - Possessing the Mark of Anguish debilitates targets, decreasing their armor by 80% for 2 min.

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Oh well, they did changes to this fight to prevent the trick of killing 2/3 adds of Rook DM, and tanking HE's mark. (came across these changes to fights from ptr, reading mmo champion)

 

Shared Torment - Embodied Misery, Sorrow, and Gloom share health.

 

although, does make the adds HP different. as this affects execute classes.  also don't have to get in range of all adds to kill them. Also allows multi dotters to continue till all adds are dead instead of one add dying sooner.  So overall would say this is makes the HP of the adds easier, but flip side is that you have to deal with all 3 abilities till all are dead. 

 

 

and I guess we aren't having the tank get the mark of anguish for HE's DM anymore?

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/147383-debilitation

Debilitation - Possessing the Mark of Anguish debilitates targets, decreasing their armor by 80% for 2 min.

Thanks for those! I'll edit the guide accordingly.

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Killed on normal in 10 man last night in 1 try.  Multi-dotting is huge.  We Bloodlusted off the bat and everyone peaked over 700k DPS.  All 3 entered their Desperate Measures together and it wasn't a big deal.  Just focus them down one by one while keeping DoTs everywhere.  Don't be outside the shield, stack up for Inferno Blast, and keep killing.  Fight was over before we knew it.

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We actually didnt even had to bother with inferno blast as the Embodied Sorrow was dead before he could even get the cast off... 

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Embodied Sorrow casts Inferno Strike. This ability selects a random raid member and, a few seconds later, deals a massive amount of damage split between all players within 8 yards of that player. The affected player, as well as the relevant 8-yard radius around them are indicated by means of a red circle.

They changed the visual of the inferno strike marking... we were really confused the first time we saw it. Inferno strike is now marked with two thin yellow circles, one with slightly bigger radius

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Thanks for all your comments and feedback, guys. Keep it coming! I've completed a few minor updates to the guide that will go up soon!

 

It looks like the Rook DM adds do not share health. And that a tank can still safely handle the Mark of Anguish.

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For our kills, we would start off the mark on a tank then swap it briefly to a hunter if the tank began to not feel safe. I imagine a mage with ice block could work in a similar fashion.

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HEROIC PROTECTORS - 10 MAN

 

Killed on 9/17 with 3 attempts.  Fight is remarkably similar to normal with a few changes...

 

10:00 Enrage.  We hit this.  DPS has to be stellar.  Multi-DoTing is an absolute must.  We pulled the fight off in 9:53 with the following DPS:

 

Mage: 348k

Shaman: 277k

Warlock: 271k

Hunter: 246k

Rogue: 230k

Blood DK: 220k

Prot Warr: 165k

Disc Priest: 50k

 

Still do the same order as normal - Rook, He, Sun.

 

Rook's Desperate Measures (66%, 33%, 1st and 4th DM)

- 3 adds share HP, so multi-dot the shit out of them.  Designate a stacking point for the explosion you have to share damage on.  Interrupts must be done on the Embodied adds.

 

He's Desperate Measures (66%, 33%, 2nd and 5th DM)

- time to bust out those Heroic Sha of Fear macros.  He will focus one player and start doing massive damage to them.  You MUST use a personal CD.  When your personal wears off, you need to toss it to someone else, much like you did in Sha of Fear or Heroic Council of Elders.  Rinse and repeat til boss dies.  Minimize damage by being max range from person you are receiving the debuff from.  Do NOT be out of range of said person or they will die.

 

Sun's Desperate Measures (66%, 33%, 3rd and 6th DM)

- Cleave, AoE, multi-dot...do anything you can to take out the adds ASAP.  Spread out inside the circle to avoid Mind Sear damage. 

 

Fight can be seen as 7 mini phases with 6 of them being 3 pairs.

 

Phase 1 - burn Rook to 66%, prepare for 3 adds that must be interrupted along with exploding damage to be shared. 

Phase 2 - burn He to 66%, prepare for one add that must be controlled and burned.  Control by having a team set up to pass the debuff appropriately.

Phase 3 - burn Sun to 66%, prepare for lots of small adds. 

Phase 4 - burn Rook to 33%, repeat Phase 1

Phase 5 - burn He to 33%, repeat Phase 2

Phase 6 - burn Sun to 33%, repeat Phase 3

Phase 7 - final burn.  Bring all bosses to 0% together. 

 

Enrage timer is SUPER tight, especially with 3 healers, so multi-DoT everything every chance you get. 

 

Damage to watch out for:

Phase 1, 4 - Explosions.  Share by being inside the two yellow circles. 

Phase 2, 5 - Focused by add.  Eat damage with best defensive CD then pass to another teammate.

Phase 3, 6 - low damage

 

Entire fight - Garrote, Mind Sear, Shadow Word:Bane - Garrote is going to happen.  It's physical damage, so mitigate the best you can.  Mind Sear is handled by being spread.  SW:Bane can be dispelled. 

 

NEW DAMAGE - CALAMITY.  Calamity is a raid wide physical damage shock that hits everyone for a shit ton of damage.  Healers should blow raid CDs here and save personal CDs for Phases 2 and 5.  Calamity will really cripple players with Garrote already on them. 

 

http://www.twitch.tv/manamonster/c/2951905 <-- Kill video for 10 man

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One thing I noticed on He's Desperate Measures strategy.. You suggested having someone set the Mark Of Anguish on the tank that was on He prior to him entering DM. However, doing this applies an 80% armor debuff for 2 minutes. As the tank on He, and therefore the one that got the Mark from another raid member, I found my damage intake sky rocketed during this, and I don't have enough offensive cooldowns to survive 2 minutes at 80% reduced armor.

 

One suggestion I heard is to let the person who gets the buff hold it until they get 5 stacks of Shadow Weakness, then pass the Mark onto another raid member (non-tank, preferably a plate wearing DPS class).

 

I didn't see any comments in the forum about this. Perhaps I'm tanking this wrong, or perhaps people already figured this out.

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I don't think I recommended tanks pick it up, but I did neglect to suggest tanks DON'T pick it up.  The 80% armor reduction is pretty terrible for them.  We hold the mark until our personal CD is up and then toss to the next person.

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NEW DAMAGE - CALAMITY.  Calamity is a raid wide physical damage shock that hits everyone for a shit ton of damage.  Healers should blow raid CDs here and save personal CDs for Phases 2 and 5.  Calamity will really cripple players with Garrote already on them. 

 

Do you mean to say that Calamity is a new spell in Heroic? She does cast it on Normal and Flex difficulty.

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No, I just mean it hurts.  In Normal, it's mostly ignored because it tickles.  In Heroic, it freaking hurts.  At least for non-Warlocks.

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Did this fight today with my guild, 10-man. Here are some points we had trouble with:

 

1. Uneven damage. Because you need to do a lot of damage, you'll naturally be multi-dotting and cleaving everything, but damage won't be spread even among the targets. He tank deals okay damage to He, but Rook's tank deals a LOT of damage to Rook. In fact, we found that if we pushed Rook to Desperate Measures first in both cycles, he would die too fast. Instead, we decided to push him last and did He -> Sun -> Rook. Doing He before Sun is a good idea because you'll wipe away any poison puddles he spawned, allowing you to feel safer inside Sun's Meditation shield during her Desperate Measures. We found that tank's damage and secondary damage from the raid was enough to start Rook's Measures immediately after Sun's ended. In the end, you can expect to see Sun and Rook evenly matched in remaining health, with He being a bit closer to death, but you should be able to adjust your damage at that stage.

2. Raiders were dying too fast with Mark of Anguish, but we found a way around it. Despite an armor debuff given to targets during He's Desperate Measures phase, it's still a good idea to transfer the Mark to them. Perhaps it was because we 3 healed it (I was healing as well), but tanks did manage to survive the entire fight with -80% armor just fine. There were a few close calls, but nothing extraordinary.

3. An important Heroic-only part of the encounter is that Rook never stops his clashes. Make sure you do not lead a Clash near the Marked target during He's phases, and do not lead a Clash inside the shield during Sun's phases. The latter is a bit tricky. Here's how we managed that: Rook tank went out of the bubble and helped us kill one of Sun's adds, taking Rook with him. The raid stacked near the edge of the bubble by the side of Rook's tank. When Clash happened, it was hitting only a small part of the bubble and was easily avoidable. Make sure He doesn't spawn a poison puddle under the raid while it's stacked.

4. Rook's Desperate Measures phase is very intense for healers due to continuous Inferno Strikes. This is a good place to use healing and defensive cooldowns. Make sure you do not let Corruption Shocks through - they are very, very deadly. Another deadly ability is Garrote, but it can be removed through immunity mechanics, which is something you should definitely use. Calamity deals a lot of damage, but unless you're doing something really wrong, you should only have high-damage Calamity casts when there's not much other damage going on.

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No, I just mean it hurts.  In Normal, it's mostly ignored because it tickles.  In Heroic, it freaking hurts.  At least for non-Warlocks.

 

For non-Heroic geared players it seems to hit for ~40% of a healthbar, so it's a precast thing but not a cooldown thing. TBH, it wouldn't hurt to be a cooldown point because there's so little damage in Sun's DM phase it's laughable.

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Also, we designate our Bear tank (ilvl ~530) to take the Mark of Anguish. No problems with that whatsoever. I hadn't even realise there was an armour debuff associated with it.

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For non-Heroic geared players it seems to hit for ~40% of a healthbar, so it's a precast thing but not a cooldown thing. TBH, it wouldn't hurt to be a cooldown point because there's so little damage in Sun's DM phase it's laughable.

The mechanic is it hits for 30% of max HP first cast, 40% second cast, 50% third cast, etc.  It's a growing percentage based ability.

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Also, we designate our Bear tank (ilvl ~530) to take the Mark of Anguish. No problems with that whatsoever. I hadn't even realise there was an armour debuff associated with it.

In Normal mode, Mark of Anguish gives a debuff that increases damage taken by Mark of Anguish by 35% that stacks.  This discourages the same person getting it, but this doesn't eliminate tanks from receiving it in normal mode. 

 

In Heroic mode, Mark of Anguish gives a 50% armor debuff for 5 minutes making giving it to the tanks a horrible decision.  This should be passed around to DPS and Healers with active mitigation abilties and cooldowns to survive until the add is dead.  Confirmed CD uses that work: Barkskin, Unending Resolve, Ice Block, Shamanistic Rage, Safeguard (from a tank).  We don't use a Paladin in our 10 man, so I can't confirm if BoP works.  It is likely able to be mitigated in every way, shape, and form.

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