Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Jooju

Demo: Dump UVLS on day 1 or keep till upgrades?

Recommended Posts

So patch day has arrived and many of us will be raiding SoO tonight! Yay!

 

I for one want to be at my best when we start the first bosses. Does anyone have any details on what to change for the best performance on week one raiding?

 

Most importantly, is it better for me to stick with UVLS for a while longer or switch to my other two ToT trinkets?

 

I also know that I need to take a serious look at Archimode's Darkness and need to dump Glyph of Imp Swarm, but I want to know what others are thinking on talents and glyphs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Demonology, according to videos watched and my personal opinions, is a spec that shouldn't be "required" in SoO like it was on some fights in ToT such as Council and Lei Shen.  Affliction and Destruction will be a good combination to take, so feel free to drop UVLS since that trinket sucks for them and quit being a slave to a proc!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Demonology, according to videos watched and my personal opinions, is a spec that shouldn't be "required" in SoO like it was on some fights in ToT such as Council and Lei Shen.  Affliction and Destruction will be a good combination to take, so feel free to drop UVLS since that trinket sucks for them and quit being a slave to a proc!

 

Zagam likes the prospect of playing demo without uvls, finds out it still uses it, suggests everyone plays affli/destro.

 

<3 U ZAGAM BBY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Demo was my favorite in 5.3 and I played it on everything except Primordius, after looking at the general boss strategies and lists of optimal specs it looks like I'll be switching to Destro/Aff in 5.4 :/

 

Aff seems like it's going to do really well. I just started playing WoW in 5.3 so I haven't even tried Aff yet :x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has nothing to do with UVLS on why I recommend Destruction and Affliction.  It has EVERYTHING to do with the fight mechanics I've seen.  There is a ton of 'switch to that and nuke it' type add style.  That doesn't suit Demonology as you really need ramp up time as well as timing with your Demonic Fury.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be or can't be played, but considering I was top DPS last night as Destruction on a couple of fights speaks for itself.  Affliction is really strong for multi-dotting and single target focus, but Destruction is just amazing for switching to these adds that have like 400k HP.  Who needs Rain of Fire?  Shadowburn gives you all the Embers you need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has nothing to do with UVLS on why I recommend Destruction and Affliction.  It has EVERYTHING to do with the fight mechanics I've seen.  There is a ton of 'switch to that and nuke it' type add style.  That doesn't suit Demonology as you really need ramp up time as well as timing with your Demonic Fury.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be or can't be played, but considering I was top DPS last night as Destruction on a couple of fights speaks for itself.  Affliction is really strong for multi-dotting and single target focus, but Destruction is just amazing for switching to these adds that have like 400k HP.  Who needs Rain of Fire?  Shadowburn gives you all the Embers you need.

 

Since when is Demonology a ramp up DPS spec?  Assuming you're used to a fight and know what's coming, there should rarely be a time when you aren't prepared to nuke something down.  Turn to target, Meta, Soulfire spam.

 

What happened to your zest for Demonology Zags?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not going to be able to Soul Fire spam when you get your tier as you'll be balancing monitoring your buff and wanting to hold onto charges to give yourself higher uptime on your 2pc bonus.  Sure, Demo can turn and start using Soul Fire, but you're blowing charges that'll be meaningful soon.  Using ToC is just weaker than Incinerate, Havoc + Shadowburn, etc for mobs that die quickly.  Demonology builds up with Imps, especially now that Imp Swarm is frowned upon.

 

It all goes back to strategy, assignments, and raid comp.  My raid group is VERY solid and they all switch and execute things like a monster.  That's why I wasn't able to get as many Shadowburns in on most Horridon attempts.  Same thing here...it's gotta be that burst at the right place.  Again, I'm trying to pick the two best specs to roll with so I don't constantly reforge and respec.  Destruction is doing better AoE right now than Demonology for me, and most of this is going to line up with what trinkets you get.  I gave KTT to our Ele Shaman even though it woulda been sick for me.  Gahhda got his Cleave trinket and said it added a decent amount of damage for him.  For me, my trinket preference will be Bindings and Black Blood regardless of whether or not the Multistrike or Cleave trinket is "1-2%" ahead of the others...it will come down to playstyle and quality of life.  Using Bindings makes it so I only have one RNG trinket and Black Blood will be nice because it's mostly reliable in that it'll be exactly the same as Wush but a lot better.  I wouldn't want to keep a trinket from 5.3 in 5.4 that frustrated me in 5.3 because of crappy RNG.  I also tried playing Demonology without it and it felt awful.  So...there's why I'm not playing Demonology. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rofl, dammit man.  I feel like UVLS is proccing more than ever for me.  To add to that, my Doom is doing more damage without the glyph and with the bindings they're critting even harder.  Once I get used to these fights it's going to be ridiculous.  I understand your frustration though, but I just don't really like Affliction.  The only thing that makes it fun for me is if it's handing the other specs' asses to them.

 

That said, if I wanted to continue to keep my Demo spec, would you suggest keeping Affliction as my offspec or is a change to Destruction in order?  I'd like to try out Destruction again, but Affliction kicked so much ass on the 3rd boss that it's hard to discount its viability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You did Affliction on Norushen?  I played Destruction, and using Havoc on Norushen and hitting the add with Chaos Bolt created a hilarious, predicted anomoly.  Damage done to the adds duplicates to the Amalgam...when I used Havoc on the boss and hit the add with Chaos Bolt, I saw the add get hit for 650k, the boss get hit for 650k then immediately get hit for two more 650ks because of the dupe effect AND the Havoc effect.  I went in to get purified 3rd because I read a rumor that pets didn't benefit (they actually do) so next week, I'll probably go in earlier since my cleave effect is much stronger than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ummmm, yeah I'll have to try Destruction, dear lord that's intense.  The adds just seem to die so fast and I constantly regenerate all my Soul Shards from dead adds that I can permanently keep Haunt up on the boss if I actually play my cards right.  On the other hand, they die *so* fast that my DoT's don't really do their best damage even though I was apparently topping the meters.  Destruction next week for sure.

 

As for the remainder though, is there any fight from Pride and on where Affliction *absolutely* dominates?  Is Demo/Destro beast enough to finish the tier?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pride - I went Affliction.  Mostly single target and I let other raid members deal with the adds.  We never got past 50 Pride to see the Self-Reflections, so I just pummeled single target.  I'm more comfortable with Aff as single target.

 

Galakras - lots of AoE.  I think this would be Affliction's weakest spot.  You'd spend a majority of the fight Soul Swap:Inhale and Soul Swap:Exhale'ing.  I flicked on Fire and Brimstone and sustained 500k+ DPS on the AoE packs with our Ele Shaman.  Destro AoE > Demo AoE because you don't have to be close and it takes SO much less energy.  The 10% buff to Incinerate was quite massive for Destro's AoE.  Demo could sustain here...when he lands, he has like 120M to burn through...P2 doesn't last long at all.

 

Juggernaut - doesn't matter.  It's the Patchwerk of the tier.  Single target DPS fiesta.

 

Dark Shamans - All specs have their strengths.  Havoc + CB or Havoc + SB and RoF and FnB for the slimes makes Destruction sweet.  2 targets makes Demo and Aff sweet by keeping good DoTs up.  Pick a spec you're most comfortable and just watch your feet on that fight.

 

Nazgrim - doesn't matter, but Destruction is pimp with using Havoc on Nazgrim and blowing up adds.  We got to Nazgrim at 11:53 saying 'well, we got one pull before we're done.'  The trash before it was so awful...we used that as an incentive to one shot it.  It's mostly single target with some adds.  Small movement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Word.  I'm going to swap to Destruction from Affliction.  I've been looking for an excuse anyway.  I've only had it around to slow turtles and for Primordius ooze stomping.  Fanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's last tier.  It hasn't been updated yet because most of the logs haven't successfully gone through World of Logs.  Is there something more specific you're trying to understand?

 

Also, I rarely ever go by the top 100 parses.  It doesn't give an accurate look at where the specs really are because you are seeing the players who have had insane luck with RNG on their trinkets or are gaining outside influence (ie. tricks of the trade).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's last tier.  It hasn't been updated yet because most of the logs haven't successfully gone through World of Logs.  Is there something more specific you're trying to understand?"

Ok, I understand your point about the tier now, although many had given up on demo before 5.4.  I see this as a measure of the maximum performance for each spec (which matches your luck with procs theory), but, short of cheating, I'd think that would correspond uniformly as luck decreases... unless maybe demo has a proc that is just much more powerful than the other specs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Top 100 Parses are manipulations of mechanics, fights, and giving certain people the right jobs.  They're the outliers and should NEVER be used for DPS analysis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I understand your point about the tier now, although many had given up on demo before 5.4.  I see this as a measure of the maximum performance for each spec (which matches your luck with procs theory), but, short of cheating, I'd think that would correspond uniformly as luck decreases... unless maybe demo has a proc that is just much more powerful than the other specs.

 

Many gave up on Demo before 5.4? o_O

 

I can see that maybe if they never saw a UVLS drop into their inventory, but with it Demo was amazing on almost every fight in 5.3.

 

As Zagam has also pointed out, top 100 parses are not reliable data because the average raid is not going to play the game for one player to see insane parses.  I generally sort by average DPS and start at the 60% range, working my way up to 90% while watching for trends and sudden increases in damage.  These increases can either be an ilvl tipping point, or where people successful in their spec really start to pull ahead due to mechanics.  All of that is very useful information to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Demo is a good spec for 25 man because mobs have higher HP which allows Doom to tick more often and for longer periods of time.  I think for 10 man, Destro/Aff is going to be the 2 spec set up easiest to conform to.  It also allows you to keep your Haste at 9.8k and stack the bejeezus out of Mastery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 530 UVLS is proccing more reliably on the pull than it ever has.  I am really glad, as while being so reliant on a proc can be frustrating at times, i enjoy the playstyle of having that many MC procs and fury generation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good for you. my normal UVLS seemed damn unreliable yesterday. Esp without everlasting having 3 procs in a 6+ min fight isn't exactly nice. Especially when they're not on the pull and not at set intervals.

Then again the removal of everlasting is the actual problem really, not UVLS proc rate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 530 UVLS is proccing more reliably on the pull than it ever has.  I am really glad, as while being so reliant on a proc can be frustrating at times, i enjoy the playstyle of having that many MC procs and fury generation.

So you experienced good RNG?  Let's see if everyone is experiencing that...

 

Good for you. my normal UVLS seemed damn unreliable yesterday. Esp without everlasting having 3 procs in a 6+ min fight isn't exactly nice. Especially when they're not on the pull and not at set intervals.

Then again the removal of everlasting is the actual problem really, not UVLS proc rate.

Nope.  Bad RNG strikes here.  THIS is why I got away from Demonology and UVLS.  Bad RNG can cripple you pretty badly.  I understand most of the time, you're getting a proc, but remember my little math stint explaining how you couldn't expect full coverage with UVLS-Doom when Glyph of EA existed and you had the 549 version? 

 

Basically with a 0.65 RPPM, your expected proc interval is 60/0.65 = 92 seconds.  With Pandemic, you can get to 90 seconds.  You guys are seeing procs at the start because when you pull, your timer is set to 120 seconds which is 28 seconds PAST the average expected proc interval.  I think being 120 seconds removed from a proc gives somewhere in the neighboorhood of a 5x to 6x multiplier chance of proccing.  I've seen logs where UVLS has had an interval proc of 300 seconds.  Granted, these are rare, but sometimes I had 2 or 3 of these 3 minute gaps back when I had the Glyph of EA giving me a much smaller window of time without UVLS-Doom up. 

 

There are fights that I think UVLS-Demo is going to have some kickass capabilities.  Heroic Protectors and normal/heroic Paragons come to mind with targets that are up full-time giving you small Imp factories.  The issue most of you are not seeing in your openers yet is the DF starvation in the pull.  When you give up your 2pc T15, you're losing that 30% reduced cost of DF.  Doom will go from costing 35 DF back to its original 50 DF.  Casting this twice in your opener to capture UVLS will destroy your DF pool.  You can't WAIT to use Meta because you'll miss the opportunity to push UVLS up and then you'll run out of DF and be stuck in caster form during Dark Soul waiting for Meta's CD to come up.  There's just a ton of variance and RNG along with strict monitoring in Demonology.  Be prepared to deal with and handle it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Archimage
      About: I've decided to make a guide on Leveling Heirlooms since I did not find any quick guides for it. This is my first guide, so please feel free to give some constructive feedback   What are Heirlooms: Heirlooms are items which stats scale with your character's level, reducing the need to replace gear whose stats are becoming too low for your level.  
      Heirloom Collections Tab: A new Heirloom system has been introduced in 6.1, adding all your heirlooms to your Collections, where they can be easily accessed without having to mail the heirlooms to other characters. Already earned heirlooms will be added to the collection once you have logged in with the character that has the heirlooms in their bank/bag. Any newly purchased heirlooms will automatically be added to your collection. To use a heirloom, simply find and click on it in the Heirlooms tab, and it will be placed in your inventory, and then equip it. You can also recreate the same heirloom if you want to dual-wield it, or have two trinkets or rings of the same type.
        Categories: Heirlooms can be divided into the following 4 categories, based on what stats they give:    Strength-Haste - Gear for Melee damage dealers that requires more haste than crit. These pieces were the tanking pieces, but the Parry/Dodge stats were changed in 6.0  
      Strength-Crit  - Gear for Melee damage dealers that requires more crit than haste.
      Agility - Gear for Melee+Ranged damage dealers
      Intellect - Gear for Spell-caster Damage Dealers and Healers
      There are also subcategories for armor types, like Cloth, Leather, Mail and Plate.
      There are also subcategories for slots, like Chest, Shoulder, Leggings, Weapons etc
      How to buy Leveling Heirlooms:   Heirlooms can be brought with the following currencies: Gold (g) Burning Blossoms (Midsummer Fire Festival)
      Tricky Treat (Hallow's End)
      Coin of Ancestry (Lunar Festival)
      Mark of Honor (PvP)
      Timewarped Badge (Timewalking)
        Darkmoon Prize Ticket (DPT) Champion's Seals (CS)   From these vendors: Alliance: Krom Stoutarm Horde: Estelle Gendry Guild Vendors: (A) Shay Pressler / (H) Goram  
      Head, Shoulder, Chest, Cloak and Pants pieces cost 500 gold / 50 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 25 Champion's Seals One-handed weapons (except the fist weapons) cost 650 gold / 50 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 25 Champion's Seals  Two-handed weapons cost 750 gold / 75 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 40 Champion's Seals Off-hand weapons cost 500 gold / 50 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 25 Champion's Seals Trinkets cost 700 gold / 70 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 35 Champion's Seals The New Neck pieces cost 700 gold   Once you have brought a new heirloom, it's starting level range will be from level 1 to 60, meaning it will stop to scale up once you have reached level 60. This level cap can be increased twice by upgrading the piece with these tokens.    Armor (1-90): Ancient Heirloom Armor Casing costs 100 gold / 100 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 55 Champion's Seals / 2000 Honor Armor (1-100): Timeworn Heirloom Armor Casing costs 2000 gold Weapon (1-90): Ancient Heirloom Scabbard costs 1200 gold / 120 Darkmoon Prize Tickets / 65 Champion's Seals / 2400 Honor Weapon (1-100): Timeworn Heirloom Scabbard costs 5000 gold   List of Heirlooms per Category   Strength-Haste Plate (Warrior / Paladin / Death Knights) Head: Burnished Helm of Might Shoulders:Burnished Pauldrons of Might Chest: Burnished Breastplate of Might  Back: Ripped Sandstorm Cloak Leggings: Burnished Legplates of Might Ring: Dread Pirate Ring Weapon: Bloodsoaked Skullforge Reaver Shield: Flamescarred Draconian Deflector
      Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast     Strength-Crit Plate (Warrior / Paladin / Death Knights) Head:Polished Helm of Valor Shoulders:Polished Spaulders of Valor Chest: Polished Breastplate of Valor Back: Worn Stoneskin Gargoyle Cape Leggings: Polished Legplates of Valor Ring: Dread Pirate Ring 2H Axe: Bloodied Arcanite Reaper Dual Wield 1H Sword: Bloodsoaked Skullforge Reaver  Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast  
      Agility Mail (Hunter, Enhancement Shaman) Head:Tarnished Raging Berserker's Helm Shoulders: Champion Herod's Shoulder Chest: Champion's Deathdealer Breastplate Back:Back:Inherited Cape of the Black Baron (Can be used by Agility Leather characters) Leggings:Tarnished Leggings of Destruction Ring: Dread Pirate Ring Dual Wield 1H Mace: Venerable Mass of McGowan (Combat Rogues can use this) Bow: Charmed Ancient Bone Bow Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast   Intellect Mail (Elemental/Restoration Shaman, Holy Paladins) Head: Mystical Coif of Elements Shoulders:Mystical Pauldrons of Elements Chest: Mystical Vest of Elements Back: Ancient Bloodmoon Cloak (Also used by Intellect Cloth and Intellect Leather) Leggings:Mystical Kilt of Elements Ring: Dread Pirate Ring 1H Mace: Devout Aurastone Hammer Staff: Dignified Headmaster's Charge Shield: Weathered Observer's Shield Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast   Agility Leather (Rogue, Feral Druid, Windwalker Monk. To a lesser extent Enhancement Shamans and Hunters) Head:Stained Shadowcraft Cap Shoulders: Stained Shadowcraft Spaulders Chest: Stained Shadowcraft Tunic Back:Inherited Cape of the Black Baron (Can be used by Agility Mail characters) Leggings:Stained Shadowcraft Pants Ring: Dread Pirate Ring  
      Dual Wield 1H Sword: Venerable Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge Dual Wield 1H Mace: Venerable Mass of McGowan (Enhancement Shamans can use this)   Dual Wield Daggers: Balanced Heartseeker Staff (Feral Druids): Burnished Warden Staff  Bow: Charmed Ancient Bone Bow  Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast  
      Intellect Leather (Balance/Restoration Druids, Mistweaver Monk) Head: Preened Tribal War Feathers Shoulders: Preened Ironfeather Shoulders Chest: Preened Ironfeather Breastplate  Back: Ancient Bloodmoon Cloak (Also used by Intellect Cloth and Intellect Mail) Leggings: Preened Wildfeather Leggings Ring: Dread Pirate Ring   1H Mace: Devout Aurastone Hammer  Staff: Dignified Headmaster's Charge Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast     Intellect Cloth (Mage, Priest, Warlock) Head: Tattered Dreadmist Mask Shoulders:Tattered Dreadmist Mantle Chest: Tattered Dreadmist Robe  Back: Ancient Bloodmoon Cloak (Also used by Intellect Leather and Intellect Mail) Leggings: Tattered Dreadmist Leggings Ring: Dread Pirate Ring   Staff: Dignified Headmaster's Charge  Off-Hand: Musty Tome of the Lost Health Trinket: Swift Hand of Justice Mana Trinket: Discerning Eye of the Beast  
      Collecting 35 heirlooms will reward you with a Chauffeured Chopper, which can be used as a mount from level 1.
    • By filthsilvermoon
      3/11 M Antorus (ABT)
      FiLTHYs most wanted:
      2x Balance Druid
      2x Warlock
      1x Spriest
      1x Frost DK 1x Mistweaver

      FiLTH, a friendly progressive guild looking for more skilled players.

      FiLTHY Raid team:
      - Push Mythic progress
      - 3 raids a week, 3 hours each (Extra raid night during opening month of new raid content)
      - Must complete M+ 15 each week
      - 72 minimum traits
      - 940+ ilvl
      Raids are: (Monday extra night) Wednesday, Thursday and Sunday at 8:45PM - 11:45PM Server time (+1 GMT)

      What WE can offer YOU:
      - Great and friendly community
      - Always people around to join in your keys
      - Teamspeak 3 and Discord server
      - M+ guild groups 15 and above
      - Raid Logs after every raid
      - Website forums
      - Raid livestreams
      - Guild Whatsapp groups
      - Special event nights
      - Alt raids

      FiLTH is a fun place to be and most who join call it their home and family. It’s been a competitive raiding environment for over 6 years and has a strong and experienced core.
      Wowprogress: https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/silvermoon/FiLTH

      APPLY AT: http://filth.guildlaunch.com/
      OR
      Reply to this thread
      Message me on Marvynn#21579 or MrRoboto#2229 or Fozzy#2286.
    • By Crudetorrent
      Hi, This is about Ice Veins Demonology 100 talent discussion. I'm greatly confused about this, since I can't see any synergy between Ascendance and Soul Conduit. If anyone could clarify this. I've already thought about it having something to do with summons. But it has to do with DE so yeah. Simply can't see the synergy with theese two together.
      Copied right from the 100 talent discussion from Icy Veins:
       Soul Conduit is the best option for single target and light cleave and should be your go-to for most encounters. This talent is only worthwhile if using  Thal'kiel's Ascendance.
       
    • By Iobster
      Hello All. I've been searching for days with no luck, wondering what the general consensus is on the route we will be taking on our way to Concordance of the Legionfall. My current thoughts are 1/1 Swarm of the black harvest (increase damage by 10% and stamina by 10%) ->  4/4 Infernal Furnace (Increases damage dealt by your wild imps' firebolt by 10%) -> The Doom of Azeroth (10% Doom Damage... with Kazzak leg belt) then continuing on new traits towards concordance of the legionfall. If anyone knows a way to run numbers on this route or anyone has already done it please let me know :). Thanks all.
      7.2 Artifact Calculator - http://ptr.wowdb.com/artifact-calculator#mBAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAA
      -Steve
    • By Saurohn
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yKGvQX3Th2wBn86J#type=damage-done&source=17
      http://www.wowhead.com/list=20882584/us-runetotem-saurohn
      I am getting lots of snarky comments about my low DPS and so would like a few pointers. Thanks for being nice!
      S
×
×
  • Create New...